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Old August 26 2010, 01:13 AM   #16
Mr. Adventure
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Re: Do ships in the Farscape universe have FTL?

Anwar wrote: View Post
Fist McStrongpunch wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post
It's funny and a little sad: Shows that aren't big franchise shows like Farscape, Lexx, NuBSG can get away with stuff like this where they never explain their tech and just have them as background plot devices (if even that). But try something like in Trek where they have an FTL engine but never explain it, crucifixion.

That said, I loved Farscape.
It's the shows' fault. Star Trek has been crammed with ridiculous technobabble for years, and so very often it's a piece of technology that's driving the whole story. In BSG and Farscape, it's the people who drive the stories.
But what I mean is, if the writers had wanted to do a story where the tech was just the plot device and it was a story about characters they'd get crucified for it while other shows can get away with it.
I don't know, a lot of well regarded episodes such as Darmok, The Inner Light, The City on the Edge of Forever, The Visitor, etc. are really character stories with some lax science around it. I mean how does the guardian of forever work again?
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Old August 26 2010, 06:20 AM   #17
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Re: Do ships in the Farscape universe have FTL?

Anwar wrote: View Post
Starburst is the way Moya itself travels through space (as an emergency escape technique) while it usually travels through space at FTL levels on its own natural ability. It was a plot device used to explain how Moya could evade the Peacekeeper Command Carrier and not be tracked.

Ships in Farscape usually travel using "Hetch drive".
Hetch drives are extremely slow by FTL standards (with "hetch" just being a measurement of speed); basically just a faster form of Star Trek's thrusters. It takes weeks if not months to travel between neighboring stars using them. Starburst is pretty much a "jump drive," while other ships used something closer to a warp drive. They travel in normal space, Moya hops a ride through bordering dimensions. Hell, even using the slingshot technique Crichton came up with during the premiere was significantly faster than what a hetch drive could do.

Again, the big deal about Starburst is that it's unpredictible and impossible to track. But if a Leviathan has some form of tracking device onboard (as Moya did several times), a Peacekeeper command carrier could easily catch up with it. Considering how close the calls were on several occasions, their form of travel is just a little faster than what a Leviathan can do by Starbursting (considering they need some downtime before they can make another jump). My guess is that the Peacekeeper's FTL method required an acceleration phase. They can't just "jump" to max speed. That would explain a lot, such as why they couldn't chase Moya during the aforementioned slingshot in the premiere.

Also keep in mind that Crichton had a hetch drive installed onto his module, and despite having one he was all but stranded when Moya Starburst away at the end of the third season.

Last edited by Checkmate; August 26 2010 at 01:19 PM.
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Old August 26 2010, 08:48 AM   #18
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Re: Do ships in the Farscape universe have FTL?

Anwar wrote: View Post
It's funny and a little sad: Shows that aren't big franchise shows like Farscape, Lexx, NuBSG can get away with stuff like this where they never explain their tech and just have them as background plot devices (if even that). But try something like in Trek where they have an FTL engine but never explain it, crucifixion.

That said, I loved Farscape.
I think nuBSG portrayed FTL the best. Knobs, dials, valves, gauges (Captain's Hand) and then engine things in Season 4. How do they work? Who knows, who cares! "Look, machinery and shit".
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Old August 26 2010, 12:35 PM   #19
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Re: Do ships in the Farscape universe have FTL?

Well, NuBSG's FTL is pretty much just a teleport machine that zaps you in the blink of an eye rather than accelerate you anywhere.

It's like the Teleport Engine from that 90s CGI show, Shadow Raiders.
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Old August 26 2010, 01:33 PM   #20
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Re: Do ships in the Farscape universe have FTL?

JonathonWally wrote: View Post
I think nuBSG portrayed FTL the best.
In my opinion, nothing beats the Infinite Improbability Drive.
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Old August 26 2010, 01:54 PM   #21
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Re: Do ships in the Farscape universe have FTL?

Anwar wrote: View Post
Well, NuBSG's FTL is pretty much just a teleport machine that zaps you in the blink of an eye rather than accelerate you anywhere.

It's like the Teleport Engine from that 90s CGI show, Shadow Raiders.

Trek would be better if they dumped all the technobabble

"Captain: Get us out of here"
Some guy: Something's malfunctioning
Captain: I don't care, make it work and get us out of here"

"Captain: we're under attack, fire back, hurt them
Some guy: their shields are up
Captain: improvise
Some guy: I could try manually teching the tech right after I tech the tech
Captain: less talking, more doing"
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Old August 26 2010, 02:49 PM   #22
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Re: Do ships in the Farscape universe have FTL?

JonathonWally wrote: View Post
"Captain: we're under attack, fire back, hurt them
Some guy: their shields are up
Captain: improvise
Some guy: I could try manually teching the tech right after I tech the tech
Captain: less talking, more doing"
I think we should strip it down and keep only the narrative beats:
CAPTAIN: Exposition.
SOME GUY: Problem!
CAPTAIN: Resolution!
SOME GUY: Conflict.
CAPTAIN: Emotional appeal.
SOME GUY: Action.
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Old August 26 2010, 02:57 PM   #23
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Re: Do ships in the Farscape universe have FTL?

JonathonWally wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post
Well, NuBSG's FTL is pretty much just a teleport machine that zaps you in the blink of an eye rather than accelerate you anywhere.

It's like the Teleport Engine from that 90s CGI show, Shadow Raiders.

Trek would be better if they dumped all the technobabble

"Captain: Get us out of here"
Some guy: Something's malfunctioning
Captain: I don't care, make it work and get us out of here"

"Captain: we're under attack, fire back, hurt them
Some guy: their shields are up
Captain: improvise
Some guy: I could try manually teching the tech right after I tech the tech
Captain: less talking, more doing"
Some people would consider that bare bones stuff to be poor writing, which shows how subjective any babble can be. I mean, look at how people keep criticizing District 9 for not explaining how that alien fluid stuff worked.

I mean, lawyer shows and medical shows are full of legibabble and medibabble but no one cares.
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Old August 26 2010, 03:20 PM   #24
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Re: Do ships in the Farscape universe have FTL?

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
JonathonWally wrote: View Post
"Captain: we're under attack, fire back, hurt them
Some guy: their shields are up
Captain: improvise
Some guy: I could try manually teching the tech right after I tech the tech
Captain: less talking, more doing"
I think we should strip it down and keep only the narrative beats:
CAPTAIN: Exposition.
SOME GUY: Problem!
CAPTAIN: Resolution!
SOME GUY: Conflict.
CAPTAIN: Emotional appeal.
SOME GUY: Action.
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Old August 26 2010, 03:34 PM   #25
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Re: Do ships in the Farscape universe have FTL?

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
JonathonWally wrote: View Post
I think nuBSG portrayed FTL the best.
In my opinion, nothing beats the Infinite Improbability Drive.
From personal experience of the breakdown of elementary number theory in restaurants, I'm convinced that Bistromathics is the way forward.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technol...romathic_drive
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Old August 26 2010, 04:38 PM   #26
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Re: Do ships in the Farscape universe have FTL?

Anwar wrote: View Post
Some people would consider that bare bones stuff to be poor writing, which shows how subjective any babble can be. I mean, look at how people keep criticizing District 9 for not explaining how that alien fluid stuff worked.

I mean, lawyer shows and medical shows are full of legibabble and medibabble but no one cares.
Personally I think so long as a given project is internally consistent and at least have a vague notion of how things are supposed to work (but not necessarily *why* they work) and work in accordance with an established tone of the subject matter then you can get away with pretty much anything. All science fictions shows/films/books/etc. establish a certain envelope of how far "real" science, how much speculative science and how much pure inventive (read: "magic") science figures into their fictional world,.

Farscape was often about really crazy, insane stuff happening to people who had little or no idea what the hell was going on and mostly didn't care so long as they could run away from it as fast as possible. As a result, beyond some very basic precepts they were free to pretty much do what they want and that really worked to it's credit because they didn't have to waste time trying to explain things that really didn't matter. In that regard it's very much in a similar vein as Red Dwarf that treated the bug-eyed monsters and the "big swirly things" with a wink and a nod.
Two prominent examples in Farscape I can think of that exemplify Farscape's attitude and tone come from a episode where Talyn is swallowed by a boodong and the episode where everyone gets shrunk down and put inside jars by some bounty hunters.

In the first instance there's an exchange between Crichton and Crais: -
Crichton: "Down, do we want to be going down?"
Crais: "We have no notion of which way is up and which way is down."
Crichton: "Yo, Jonah, we are been swallowed that is
down!"
And in the latter you have an exchange between Rygel and Sikozu where Sikozu reasons that it's not physically possible to be shrunk.: -
Sikozu: "This isn't happening because it is not possible . . . I simply cannot comprehend how-"
Rygel: "-Neither can I. Who cares? We're here, they did it, and that's that . . . I've been around long enough to know how ignorant I am. I don't assume the universe obeys my preconceptions.
But I know a frelling fact when it hits me in the face!"
Star Trek suffered because it tried to rationalise and explain how and why something worked when it really didn't matter. From what I gather, people like Sternbach did their best to steer things towards more relatable science concepts but most of the time I don't think many of the writers or producers understood or cared, so we mostly ended up with a bunch of gibberish with the words "trans", "meta" and "phase" tacked on the front or back of it.

Red Dwarf was very good at poking fun at this kind of thing.
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Old August 26 2010, 04:43 PM   #27
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Re: Do ships in the Farscape universe have FTL?

Reverend wrote: View Post
[/I][/INDENT]And in the latter you have an exchange between Rygel and Sikozu where Sikozu reasons that it's not physically possible to be shrunk.: -[INDENT] Sikozu: "This isn't happening because it is not possible . . . I simply cannot comprehend how-"
Rygel: "-Neither can I. Who cares? We're here, they did it, and that's that . . . I've been around long enough to know how ignorant I am. I don't assume the universe obeys my preconceptions.
[I]But I know a frelling fact when it hits me in the face!"


One of my favorite Farscape quotes

Sikozu in general was kind of a slap in the face to people who actually care about technobabble and the science behind everything. Anytime she'd try to explain how and why something was happening, the only reaction she'd get is Crichton saying "She's too smart" or other characters (Chiana, mostly) punching her in the face.
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Old August 26 2010, 04:54 PM   #28
Anwar
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Re: Do ships in the Farscape universe have FTL?

Reverend wrote: View Post
Star Trek suffered because it tried to rationalise and explain how and why something worked when it really didn't matter.
Sometimes they didn't. I remember at the beginning of "Best of both Worlds" they were talking about how the Borg could reach them so fast. All the said was "I guess they must have better engines" basically, and nothing else comes of it.

Is that what you mean by not explaining stuff, but it doesn't matter if they do or don't?
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Old August 26 2010, 04:56 PM   #29
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Re: Do ships in the Farscape universe have FTL?

Anwar wrote: View Post
JonathonWally wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post
Well, NuBSG's FTL is pretty much just a teleport machine that zaps you in the blink of an eye rather than accelerate you anywhere.

It's like the Teleport Engine from that 90s CGI show, Shadow Raiders.

Trek would be better if they dumped all the technobabble

"Captain: Get us out of here"
Some guy: Something's malfunctioning
Captain: I don't care, make it work and get us out of here"

"Captain: we're under attack, fire back, hurt them
Some guy: their shields are up
Captain: improvise
Some guy: I could try manually teching the tech right after I tech the tech
Captain: less talking, more doing"
Some people would consider that bare bones stuff to be poor writing, which shows how subjective any babble can be. I mean, look at how people keep criticizing District 9 for not explaining how that alien fluid stuff worked.

I mean, lawyer shows and medical shows are full of legibabble and medibabble but no one cares.
I would hope more people would consider made up technobabble solution to made up technobabble problem to be bad writing.


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Old August 26 2010, 05:58 PM   #30
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Re: Do ships in the Farscape universe have FTL?

What I mean is, if they had a story where someone took over the ship's transporters and were using them to teleport the crew off the ship and we had this;

Captain: Cut the power to the transporters!

Officer: I can't! (Beamed away)

Then it would probably be considered bad writing that they just "can't".
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