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Old August 24 2010, 05:34 PM   #16
exodus
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Re: If Braga had a chance to do "Endgame" over again...

kimc wrote: View Post
DevilEyes wrote: View Post
As for Seven dying... Meh, the whole 'redemption through sacrificing yourself for your crew' has become such a cliche, particularly in Trek. Why can't someone achieve redemption and go on living? Seven didn't need to die... they just shouldn't have hooked her up with Chakotay - that was stupid.
I agree. Get rid of that plus come up with a story that didn't involve either the borg or time travel and you could have had a decent finale.
No way.

Mulgrew & Krige together onscreen IMO is one of the best moments in Voyager. I'd never want to loose that. Plus, I'd rather end the series watching the unimatrix complex blow up than having the series come full circle and see the Kazon & Ocampia again.
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Old August 24 2010, 07:09 PM   #17
Ensign Johnson
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Re: If Braga had a chance to do "Endgame" over again...

I wouldn't have wanted them to kill Seven but if they did kill her it would make zero sense that the Admiral would go back in time to save her only to get her killed again. She'd just hafta go back in time again and start over. Using time travel to get home seemed like a bit of a cheat. I agree with DevilEyes that having 2 Janeways so one could be killed was having cake and eating it. But I really liked the Admiral Janeway character so I think I can forgive Endgame's cheating. For me C/7 was the worst part of the episode, I did like how shocked Captain Janeway sounded when she heard Seven and Chakotay would get married though.
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Old August 24 2010, 08:40 PM   #18
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Re: If Braga had a chance to do "Endgame" over again...

Funny: I had just read that Braga interview last night. I'm glad he didn't do that.

I actually rather liked Endgame as a finale, except for the Chakotay/Seven thing out of the blue. I know most don't, so I again must be one of the odd ones.
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Old August 24 2010, 09:07 PM   #19
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Re: If Braga had a chance to do "Endgame" over again...

Cepstrum wrote: View Post
Funny: I had just read that Braga interview last night. I'm glad he didn't do that.

I actually rather liked Endgame as a finale, except for the Chakotay/Seven thing out of the blue. I know most don't, so I again must be one of the odd ones.
If you don't mind, I guess we can be odd together because I liked it too.
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Old August 24 2010, 09:36 PM   #20
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Re: If Braga had a chance to do "Endgame" over again...

Except for the C/7 stuff, I loved Endgame, as a previous thread here can attest.
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Old August 24 2010, 10:14 PM   #21
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Re: If Braga had a chance to do "Endgame" over again...

I think the real problem was that it was all so Sandra Dee.

They're both mass murdering terrorists with absolutely nothing fun to do. Surely in an effort to fight tedium they'd go that extra inch to defy convention? it was their THIRD DATE! every one knows that the third date is the sex date and they did NOTHING!!! If they're not taking their relationship seriously, then why should we? Where's the fricking passion? the fire? Why is their "love" worth killing for and bending the universe in half for?

Bah humbug!

"We will begin Girl talk B'Elanna Torres."

"Go away Seven, I have manifolds to reparticularize."

"Chakotay is rocking my world. I have dispensed with virginity. I believe we are supposed to commit to the social gesture "the High Five" to applaud this victory over my sexuality."

(Seven raises her hand. B'Elanna leaves her hanging.)

"I am a woman now. You are supposed to bond with me."

"It's just Chakotay. Over the last seven years he's worked his way through the entire female compliment except the captain, and that's probably because she can smell every one else on him."

"O. So what we did in the Ventu Forest was not romantic climax built from some years of unspoken affection, admiration and love?"

"Were you cold?"

"Somewhat."

"The man is a whore."

"I see."

"No, No don't get so distraught, maybe he likes you or maybe he thought you'd make a good blanket, but there's nothing wrong with whores. I married one after all."
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Old August 24 2010, 11:31 PM   #22
kes7
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Re: If Braga had a chance to do "Endgame" over again...

^^^I'm sure this makes me tasteless, but I can't stop snickering at this entire comment.
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Last edited by kes7; August 25 2010 at 04:55 AM.
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Old August 25 2010, 01:42 AM   #23
Destructor
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Re: If Braga had a chance to do "Endgame" over again...

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post
After "Lord of the Rings", I'm happy they didn't go for something like that and just ended the damn thing in one spot.
Well, in the book, they did.
Yeah- and it was kind of the point of the book, what happens to them when they go home and nothing is the same. Kind of annoying that the movie ejected the whole point of the book.
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Old August 25 2010, 01:52 PM   #24
Cepstrum
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Re: If Braga had a chance to do "Endgame" over again...

Ok, so exodus and JanewayRulz liked Endgame, too? You guys are starting to make me feel less weird..... It feels really awkward.

I need a bunch of people to come tell me how dumb I am now.
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Old August 25 2010, 01:57 PM   #25
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Re: If Braga had a chance to do "Endgame" over again...

Cepstrum wrote: View Post
Ok, so exodus and JanewayRulz liked Endgame, too? You guys are starting to make me feel less weird..... It feels really awkward.

I need a bunch of people to come tell me how dumb I am now.
Stupid!!

j/k
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Old August 25 2010, 04:26 PM   #26
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Re: If Braga had a chance to do "Endgame" over again...

Cepstrum wrote: View Post
Ok, so exodus and JanewayRulz liked Endgame, too? You guys are starting to make me feel less weird..... It feels really awkward.

I need a bunch of people to come tell me how dumb I am now.

http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=119501

I outed myself on this point several months ago.
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Old August 25 2010, 04:37 PM   #27
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Re: If Braga had a chance to do "Endgame" over again...

I'm not offended, even as a rape victim. The fact is, Brannon Braga isn't a rape victim and we can all agree that he is Homerically insensitive, as evidenced by most of Voyager. Whatever. I'm over it. In fact, I've put so much effort into partially forgiving him I don't want to get mad at him again. It's not worth that effort. Again.

You have to admit, this idea is dramatic.

The fact that Data was already dead, though, and he'd just be ripping off Data's death, which was the worst-performing Star Trek movie ever, is probably why he didn't do it in the first place. Now he can say whatever he wants, at the time it was a stupid thing to do. If he had thought about it for more than two seconds, heck, if he had read the message boards, he would have know the Borg were the wrong way to go. He didn't and he's admitted it and apologized. That's enough for me.

If he'd had a brain in his head at the time, he would have brought back Suspiria.
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Old August 25 2010, 05:21 PM   #28
exodus
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Re: If Braga had a chance to do "Endgame" over again...

DrTaylor wrote: View Post
The fact is, Brannon Braga isn't a rape victim and we can all agree that he is Homerically insensitive, as evidenced by most of Voyager.
I'm sorry but I don't nor do I believe it's an actual fact.

You can't base someones content of character based on what's written for a TV show. Things are written many times to involk emotions from the audience, it's doesn't mean those writing it believe it themselves. Writers don't need to read message boards because we aren't the sole audience of Trek. They base much of what they do from ratings and if ratings are strong for Borg eps., then they'll keep doing them because the audience has given them their answer based on that. Much of the ep. "Muse" w/ Be'Lanna was done to convey such things to us.
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Old August 25 2010, 11:02 PM   #29
Guy Gardener
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Re: If Braga had a chance to do "Endgame" over again...

One line and it all would have been obvious and you could have called the show what it really was...

Caretaker to Kim "You got a pretty mouth boy."

Star Trek: Space Deliverance.

The series started with the entire crew in stirrups being raped by a banjo playing space hillbilly.

the quote above is weird, it almost looks like exodus is saying that he doesn't believe that brannon isn't a rape victim, because he made voyager. Someone had to have raped him because he made Voyager.

Homerically insensitive? Your spellcheck is playing sillybuggers with you Doctor. It's weird when it corrects your spelling with the wrong word but everything still makes sense because considering that Voyager is a pisspoor rip off of the Odyssey... Brannon and the rest ARE Homerically insensitive.
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Old August 26 2010, 12:07 AM   #30
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Re: If Braga had a chance to do "Endgame" over again...

I guess next we'll be calling Braga the son of the devil, like folks used to do over Berman.
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