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Old August 19 2010, 05:08 PM   #166
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Mal wrote: View Post
saturn5 wrote: View Post
lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
Please tell me you realize this was about a decade before that shit. Please.
I do realise that but the whole idea has been around for a lot longer, they just take it to it's sappy extreme. I don't hate Twilight or anything but the whole thing strikes me as the kind of concept that Buffy would make fun off (and indeed does in the comics and eps like Lie to Me)
if it's way older, then why would you cite something new and irrelevant like Twilight/True Blood? how about giving some relevant examples? i'd be interested to know how old the phenomenon is.

FWIW, i don't think Stoker's Dracula ever had sad and desperate (and very creepy) middle-aged groupies swooning over him.
Oh the ideas been around forever, in film Bram Stoker's Dracula and Fright Night spring to mind as does Hammer's version of the Carmilla myth (the Carnstein trilogy). In literature check out Lenore by Burger, the Bride of Corinth by Gothe and The Vampire by Ossefelder. The Buffyverse also bashes Anne Rice aplenty

THAT OLD GANG OF MINE (anyone else keep expecting Gunn to break into a number from Sweet Charity?)
The Good;
Angel apologising to Merl is hilarious but this is Gunn's ep. Love Fred singing at Caritas and she shows some steel for the first time.
The Bad;
Evidence bags. Hmmm? Are we on CSI or something? Weird how they appear this week as an important part of the plot but then we never see them again.
Best line:
Fred; "Oh. Oh! Ohhhhhh!" (all in the delivery)
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
The killing of the balancing entity is particularly gruesome
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
Human's bad, demons, well if not good not inherently evil
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cordy's tattoo; 8,
Cheap Angel; 7
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 10
Wes: 6
Gunn; 3
Lorne; 2

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 11
Angel: 13
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 2
Kills: one demon for Gunn
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 28 vamps, 40 and 1/2 demons, 3 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 7 demons+1 vamp
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 8 vamps+ 6 demons.
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 6

Characters killed:
40
Recurring characters killed; goodbye Merl. Gunn is still haunted by killing his sister which you can't blame him for.
7;
Total number of Angel Investigations:
5, Angel, Cordy, Wes, Gunn and Fred

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1
Packing heat; Gunn with a shotgun. He seems to object to the gang using Uzis but under his leadership they didn't hesitate to use a flamethrower.
Wes; 3
Doyle; 1
Angel; 1
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Angel and the Furies
Cordy: 3 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde

Kinky dinky:
It's implied that Angel beds the three Furies (genuine characters from Greek mythology and very popular on TV at the time also turning up on Xena and Charmed, Piper even becomes one for a while). Singly or all three sisters at the same time? (Every man's ultimate fantasy? Or would that include their milfy mom joining in as well?) He's now happy to do so as after Darla he knows he won't lose his soul because he doesn't love them. Of course this is what we all assume. I read a very funny fanfic once where we learn that the Furies actually dig Angel due to his exquisite foot massage technique.
Captain Subtext;
CC describes Fred as 'sweet and adorable'. Lorne describes Gunn as 'sweetie'. The Furies tell Cordelia she is not equipped to pay this debt but I once read a rather good fanfic on the subject which ended in the words "MMMMmmmmm Cordelia!". http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3037269/1/Mmmmmmmmmmmm What exactly did Rondell flee from in Florida? Who is the girl who trusted him to the end? Someone he betrayed or someone who he couldn't save? Another one where Buffy and Dawn are aged by a demon's curse but in the followup story they are returned to normal by their Key/Slayer link upon touching each one another.
Know the face, different character; 3
Parking garages;
5,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
Questions and observations;
Wes saves Fred in Caritas. Wes' new image makes him look like some form of student teacher or something. Surely shooting Lorne would do him no harm if cutting his head off doesn't kill him? One demon keeps saying "Oh god", the other says "He's not listening", weird that demons refer to god.
Now, are Rondell and the guys right or wrong? When they raid Caritas they kill at least one vamp and a babyeating demon, it's hard to say that's really wrong? The problem is they don't distinguish as AI do. The ending is probably as good as you can get in this dilemma. Interesting that Wes warns Gunn about divided loyalties a subject he's going to learn all about later in the season.
Marks out of 10; 7/10
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Old August 19 2010, 07:36 PM   #167
Mal
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

saturn5 wrote: View Post
THAT OLD GANG OF MINE

It's implied that Angel beds the three Furies (genuine characters from Greek mythology and very popular on TV at the time also turning up on Xena and Charmed, Piper even becomes one for a while). Singly or all three sisters at the same time? (Every man's ultimate fantasy? Or would that include their milfy mom joining in as well?)
well...

Mal wrote: View Post
saturn5 wrote: View Post
Mal wrote: View Post
mmmm... angel.
i will be following this thread!
Not a Fury are you?
no, but it is a favorite scene of mine. i can't tell you how many times i've dreamed a trio of furies would say "mmmmm.... mal" that would be shiny
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Old August 19 2010, 08:24 PM   #168
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Mal wrote: View Post
saturn5 wrote: View Post
THAT OLD GANG OF MINE

It's implied that Angel beds the three Furies (genuine characters from Greek mythology and very popular on TV at the time also turning up on Xena and Charmed, Piper even becomes one for a while). Singly or all three sisters at the same time? (Every man's ultimate fantasy? Or would that include their milfy mom joining in as well?)
well...

Mal wrote: View Post
saturn5 wrote: View Post

Not a Fury are you?
no, but it is a favorite scene of mine. i can't tell you how many times i've dreamed a trio of furies would say "mmmmm.... mal" that would be shiny
You don't write fanfic do you?
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Old August 19 2010, 08:47 PM   #169
lvsxy808
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

saturn5 wrote: View Post
Interesting that Wes warns Gunn about divided loyalties a subject he's going to learn all about later in the season.
Which constitutes part of the foreshadowing to be found in 3x03 "That Old Gang of Mine." But also observe that Gunn withholds vital information from the rest of the gang, which only ends up making things worse (Wesley threatens to throw him out of the team over it). Wesley will do the same in "Loyalty" / "Sleep Tight" - and it makes things worse, and he ends up thrown out of the team over it.

I notice that Gunn's old gang seems to be more primarily black in this episode than when we've seen them before, where they seemed to be a more equal mix of races. I assume that was done deliberately to highlight the racism angle, transposed from human races to human vs demon. Gio and Rondell definitely engage in racial profiling of demons - "Look at him - he's green! Obviously he's evil!"
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Old August 19 2010, 09:25 PM   #170
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
saturn5 wrote: View Post
Interesting that Wes warns Gunn about divided loyalties a subject he's going to learn all about later in the season.
Which constitutes part of the foreshadowing to be found in 3x03 "That Old Gang of Mine." But also observe that Gunn withholds vital information from the rest of the gang, which only ends up making things worse (Wesley threatens to throw him out of the team over it). Wesley will do the same in "Loyalty" / "Sleep Tight" - and it makes things worse, and he ends up thrown out of the team over it.

I notice that Gunn's old gang seems to be more primarily black in this episode than when we've seen them before, where they seemed to be a more equal mix of races. I assume that was done deliberately to highlight the racism angle, transposed from human races to human vs demon. Gio and Rondell definitely engage in racial profiling of demons - "Look at him - he's green! Obviously he's evil!"
Man, that's such a good point! Or maybe Tito was less tolerant of anyone different?
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Old August 20 2010, 03:57 PM   #171
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

CARPE NOCTEM
The Good;
Some nice humour, especially over the whole 'Fred' thing and some nice stuff with Lilah
The Bad;
Surely Marcus notices that in his new body the heart isn't beating and he doesn't breathe?
Best line:
Cordy; "You're a eunuch"
Angel; "Hey!"
CC; "Figure of speech"
Angel; "Find another one!"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche; Much like the handicapped in Blind Date in the Buffyverse old people are EVIL! We don't expect Marcus' spell to affect Angel but it does.
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cordy's tattoo; yes, her two piece purple outfit shows it off to great effect.
9,
Cheap Angel; 7
Fang Gang in bondage: yep, Angel
Cordy: 5
Angel: 11
Wes: 6
Gunn; 3
Lorne; 2

Fang gang knocked out: Angel as Marcus
Cordy: 11
Angel: 14
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 2
Kills:
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 28 vamps, 40 and 1/2 demons, 3 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 7 demons+1 vamp
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 8 vamps+ 6 demons.
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2

Alternate Fang Gang: Angel/Marcus
Cordy: 2
Angel: 7

Characters killed: the three poor guys Marcus hijacks
43
Recurring characters killed;
7;
Total number of Angel Investigations:
5, Angel, Cordy, Wes, Gunn and Fred

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1
Packing heat;
Wes; 3
Doyle; 1
Angel; 1
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 3 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde

Kinky dinky:
Three in the bed sex with 2 beautiful hookers. Well, we've all been there. CC refers to Angel as a eunuch, remember she doesn't know about Darla. CC salivates over the bodybuilders but still thinks 'All men are dogs'. Gunn and Wes argue over who gets to visit the 'First Class Escorts' but CC decides she should go instead. She refers to them as 'Pretty skanky women' (does she mean 'Women who are pretty skanky' or 'Women who are skanky and pretty'? To judge by the extremely attractive girls in the opening scene they certainly live up to their companies' billing). That's a bit rich considering she wanted to prositute herself to Rusell Winters and David Nabbit, has twice been knocked up by demons, twice sold as a slave and is currently having a high old time with her ghost and his loufa.
The simmering sexual tension between Lilah and 'Angel' finally comes to a head. Much like Kate in 'The Shroud of Rahmon' Lilah finally gets what she secretly always wanted, thrown across the desk to be ravished Viking-style and bitten by Angel. Is this ever mentioned again because Lilah is actually the only one who knows about it and she has no idea it's not really Angel? And what do AI make of Lilah's forgeries plonked on Wes' desk?
Captain Subtext;
Marcus thinks Angel is gay (just look at his outfit) and Wes is 'Fred', his boyfriend.
Know the face, different character; 3
Parking garages;
5,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
Questions and observations;
Amy Acker's remarks about skinny models are weird as she's the thinest girl in the Buffyverse by quite some way, even more so that season 5 Buffy. Angel likes 70s Charlton Heston films, a leftover from the Manilow era? (The Omega Man has vampiric theme, plenty of blood and contains the wonderful line 'Honky paradise brother?'). You could also see a paralell with Fred in season 4 when she's the Omega woman fleeing Jasmine. The 'Nightstalker' is referred to but probably the LA serial killer rather than Kolchak. Marcus/Angel drinks martinis with Lilah, thought she was a whiskey girl?
Read a good fanfic once where Angel doesn't get his body back in the end but his soul gradually retakes control, Marcus' magic temporary and unstable. Good performace from Rance Howard as Marcus (Ron Howard's dad)
Marks out of 10; 7/10, always thought I disliked this ep but the humour makes up for a pretty weak story in many ways, actually found myself enjoying the rewatch more than I thought I would.
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Old August 20 2010, 08:12 PM   #172
lvsxy808
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Location: London
Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

saturn5 wrote: View Post
Three in the bed sex with 2 beautiful hookers. Well, we've all been there.
I certainly have, although my hookers were gay porn stars.

Actually, if you IMDB the hot naked guy from the first scene, it turns out he did Red Show Diaries type softcore porn in his youth.

I love the eunuch line. It really has to be heard in it's entirety though.

"She's got the big puppy love. And why wouldn't she? You're handsome, brave, heroic... emotionally stunted, erratic, prone to turning evil and, let's face it, a eunuch."

CC salivates over the bodybuilders but still thinks 'All men are dogs'.
Yeah, I thought that was bit hypocritical myself. I guess it was just there to say that women can be just as bad as men.

Marcus thinks Angel is gay (just look at his outfit)
They actually set this - and the body switch - up earlier by having Angel dress in leather pants. It's a well-known rule in the Buffyverse that leather pants = evil. Even Lorne knows it. And there's a moment early on where both Cordy and Wesley look Angel up and down disapprovingly, clearly taking note of the leather pants. Thus it fits perfectly when Angel does become the bad guy of the episode.

Good performace from Rance Howard as Marcus (Ron Howard's dad)
Really? I thought it was a bit blah myself. He didn't seem to be making any effort to actually act like Angel's character.

Foreshadowing to be found in 3x04 "Carpe Noctem" :

When Angel (in Marcus's body) is trying to escape from the evil retirement home (where you're not allowed out of your room at night, aren't allowed your own phone and they just put you back to bed after you've had a heart attack), there's a moment when the other old guy introduces him to his new granddaughter. So you've got Angel suddenly cradling a newborn baby, not knowing quite what to do with it but slowly getting the wonder. This obviously leads directly into the Connor storyline.

And later, when Marcus-in-Angel comes back to the home and pretends to be Marcus's son, he looks over at Angel-in-Marcus and says, "Hi, Dad!" A line which will be used in much more sinister circumstances at the ends of 3x19 "The Price" and 3x20 "A New World."

NotAngel throws Lilah onto Wesley's desk and starts furiously making out with her. Wesley is appalled at the thought, even though he himself will be doing a lot more than just making out with Lilah by the end of the season.
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Old August 21 2010, 10:33 AM   #173
Mal
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

saturn5 wrote: View Post
CARPE NOCTEM
The Bad;
always thought I disliked this ep
this is the first ep i've skipped so far on the rewatch. just really, really sub-par.
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Old August 21 2010, 03:23 PM   #174
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Ah yes, The Red Shoe Diaries, the series David Duchovny and Matt Le Blanc would rather forget! Wasn't Denise Crosby in one?

FREDLESS
The Good;
Wonderful acting by AA when Fred's finally reunited with her parents. CC and Wes' Buffy/Angel show is FANTASTIC! A good ep all around. The scene where Fred calms herself at the bus station by reciting Pi and the crazy looking homeless guy moves away from HER is the funniest scene in all of Angel and may be my favourite Angel scene ever.

The Bad;
Bit of a reach that they just let the bugs go?

Best line:
Fred; (when reunited with her parents) "I didn't mean to get so lost, I'm sorry I got so lost" (tears me up every time)

Jeez, how did they get away with that?

Apocalypses: 5

Angel Cliches

Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
Bugs ain't evil and neither really is the demon Angel kills, just driven mad by the eggs in it's skull. We think Fred's parents are evil but they're not. They're also able to accept AI's rather odd lifestyle

In disguise; 8

DB get's his shirt off; 12
9,

Cheap Angel; 7

Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 11
Wes: 6
Gunn; 3
Lorne; 2

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 11
Angel: 14
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 2

Kills: chalk up one demon bug for Fred's mum and one demon for Angel
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 28 vamps, 40 and 1/2 demons, 3 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 7 demons+1 vamp
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 8 vamps+ 6 demons.
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 7

Characters killed:
43

Recurring characters killed;
7;

Total number of Angel Investigations:
5, Angel, Cordy, Wes, Gunn and Fred

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1

Packing heat;
Wes; 3
Doyle; 1
Angel; 1
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 3 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde

Kinky dinky:
Fred's mum asks if Fred is making 'movies', LA's porn industry probably bigger than it's tourism, film and music combined. Check out CCs fishnets. She seems to revel in playing nurse for the gang and later tells Angel she could 'soothe his ass off'.

Captain Subtext;
Lorne wears eyeliner which Fred's dad says men from Texas tend not to do (never been to a 'Gay Rodeo'?).

Know the face, different character; 3

Parking garages;
5,
Guantanamo Bay;

Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony

Questions and observations;
A nice ep with Fred now part of the gang more than ever. AI are in awe of the PI the Burkle's hire who can find Fred with only a letter to go on. The Alien films are referred to with JW of course writing part 4. Fred's dad refers to Spiro Agnew who was Nixon's vice president (he was caught up in a corruption scandal before Watergate which is why Gerald Ford, the speaker of the house becomes President following Tricky Dickie's resignation). Famously his name is an anagram of 'grow a penis'. Angel likes ice cream, weird I thought he couldn't enjoy normal food. Lorne smokes and is still bitter about what Gunn's friends did to his bar. Fred considers going to Vegas for a new job, well one day she will. Angel likes golf and apparently watched the Bob Hope Desert Classic which was presumably played in Vegas. In the daytime? Wes' talk of his own parents puts Lineage into perspective.
Marks out of 10; 7/10 a funny and touching romp before we get down to the more serious stuff of season 3
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Old August 22 2010, 05:34 AM   #175
Mal
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

saturn5 wrote: View Post
FREDLESS
Wes' talk of his own parents puts Lineage into perspective.
I absolutely love this scene
Cordy: "In a really weird way, you know who I miss?"
Wes: "Fred."
Cordy: "Actually I was gonna say her parents. - Is that wrong."
Angel: "I don't think so. They were very - nice."
Cordy: "Nice? - They weren't just nice, Angel. They were..."
Gunn: "Parents."
Wes: " They loved her. - Supported her. - Didn't grind her down into a - tiny self-conscious nub with their constant berating. Their never ending tirade of debasement, and scorn and..."
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Old August 22 2010, 11:01 AM   #176
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Yeah, of all the characters in the Whedonverse Fred seems to have the best relationship with her father (maybe Kaylee?)

BILLY
 
The Good;
Love the fact that Lilah is the hero, all round great performance from Stephanie Romanov and CC (their scene together is wonderful) and some terrific out of character stuff from Wes and Gunn. Fantastically poignant ending.
The Bad;
Why does Angel tell Billy's cousin he's going to kill him? How does he expect to be invited in after that?
Best line:
Angel; "She thinks I'm melodramatic?"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Very hard to watch at times, man's brutality to woman a lot harder to take than demons and vampires. Even though Gavin is evil you don't doubt that he would never dream of attacking Lilah if Billy hadn't infected him.
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
Lilah kills the villain, bad girl comes good.
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
9,
Cheap Angel; 7
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 11
Wes: 6
Gunn; 3
Lorne; 2

Fang gang knocked out: Gunn and Wesley
Cordy: 11
Angel: 14
Wes: 6
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 2
Kills:
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 28 vamps, 40 and 1/2 demons, 3 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 7 demons+1 vamp
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 8 vamps+ 6 demons.
Fang Gang go evil: Gunn and Wes
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 7

Characters killed: two women Billy's victims.
45
Recurring characters killed;
7;
Total number of Angel Investigations:
5, Angel, Cordy, Wes, Gunn and Fred

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1
Packing heat; Only Lilah.
Wes; 3
Doyle; 1
Angel; 1
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 3 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde

Kinky dinky:
Wes comments on Fred's slinky number. CC and Angel 'getting all sweaty' whilst training as Xander would say. CC thinks Billy is 'kinda cute'.
Captain Subtext;
Wes has the hots for Fred and CC is aware of this. CC comments on using a phallic shaped weapon to threaten Billy. Angel is hurt that CC thinks him melodramatic.
Know the face, different character; 3
Parking garages;
5,
Guantanamo Bay;
Even Angel is shocked when he meets a battered Lilah. She refuses his sympathy however considering what he'd done to her in the past.
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
Questions and observations;
The Blims are very obviously supposed to be the Kennedys (of course Stephanie Romanov played Jackie O in the excellent Cuban missile crisis drama '13 Days'). His cousin actually seems ok. What happens to the poor guys who Billy infected and who attacked their women? Hopefully AI/Lilah get them out? Angel tries to spare CC from killing Billy just as he and Gunn will later do with Fred and the Professor.
Marks out of 10; 8/10, good episode, would be 9/10 if it had more arc.
 
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Old August 23 2010, 09:30 AM   #177
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

OFFSPRING

The Good;
Season 3 really kicks into high gear with the arrival of Darla and her 'passenger'.

The Bad;
?

Best line:
CC; "What are friends for?"
Darla; "Knocking you up and leaving you high and dry"
Just beating Lorne's "It's beyond my Ken and my Barbie and all my action figures"

Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Cordy describes Angel as not going evil but 'going male' which is positively misandrist.

Apocalypses: 5

Angel Cliches

Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
Darla the pregnant mother is still pure evil, defying all our expectations

In disguise; 8

DB get's his shirt off; 12
9,

Cheap Angel; 7

Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 11
Wes: 6
Gunn; 3
Lorne; 2

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 11
Angel: 14
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 2

Kills:
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 28 vamps, 40 and 1/2 demons, 3 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 7 demons+1 vamp
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 8 vamps+ 6 demons.
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 7

Characters killed:
45

Recurring characters killed;
7;

Total number of Angel Investigations:
5, Angel, Cordy, Wes, Gunn and Fred

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1

Packing heat; Wes takes the pistol from the scroll owner
Wes; 4
Doyle; 1
Angel; 1
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 3 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde

Kinky dinky:
Wes refers to the date rape drugs GHB/rohypnol. CC refers to the Furies as Angel's 'chippies' and hopes they're on the pill. CC refers to Angel 'boning' Darla.

Captain Subtext;
The Kyrumption subtext between CC and Angel finally comes to the fore but Darla's arrival puts a spanner in the works. Darla seems appalled by the world suggesting her baby is already giving her a soul.

Know the face, different character; 4
Jack Conley as Sahjhan, also played the werewolf hunter Cain in the Buffy season 2 ep Phases

Parking garages;
5,

Guantanamo Bay;

Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony

Questions and observations;
Hang on everybody, we're going for a hell of a ride! Holst appears to be a Catholic which is ironic given that he's based on Oliver Cromwell who was markedly anti-Catholic despite being largely regarded as a champion of liberty. Gunn is a great juggler, I wonder if he was taught by the same person as Buffy in 'Hell's Bells'?
Marks out of 10; 8/10
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Old August 23 2010, 08:00 PM   #178
Mal
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

saturn5 wrote: View Post
OFFSPRING
Holst appears to be a Catholic which is ironic given that he's based on Oliver Cromwell who was markedly anti-Catholic despite being largely regarded as a champion of liberty.
two questions: (1) one, how do you know holtz is based on Cromwell and (2) why do you assume he's catholic?

i get that he's working with catholic monks - but he's in rome! he needs their help, so even if he is protestant, he's not about to wave it in their faces!

that said, Angel, Lochley, Lindsy (MacDonald) and the show in general have a very Catholic feel. but not everyone; Gunn is pretty evangelical.

where do you get the Cromwell stuff from?
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Old August 24 2010, 12:14 PM   #179
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Mal wrote: View Post
saturn5 wrote: View Post
OFFSPRING
Holst appears to be a Catholic which is ironic given that he's based on Oliver Cromwell who was markedly anti-Catholic despite being largely regarded as a champion of liberty.
two questions: (1) one, how do you know holtz is based on Cromwell and (2) why do you assume he's catholic?

i get that he's working with catholic monks - but he's in rome! he needs their help, so even if he is protestant, he's not about to wave it in their faces!

that said, Angel, Lochley, Lindsy (MacDonald) and the show in general have a very Catholic feel. but not everyone; Gunn is pretty evangelical.

where do you get the Cromwell stuff from?
I take it that Holtz is a Catholic because he crosses himself and the cardinal says he married Holtz and his wife which he would only have done if they were Catholics.
As for Holtz and Cromwell, there's a lot of similarities between them, both from the east of England, (Newmarket and Dover) both from approximately the same time (17th/18th century) both Spartan religious zealots, both commanding figures well respected for their leadership and combat abilities, both controversial but you could easily justify the actions of either.
They both even look a little similar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Cromwell

QUICKENING
 
The Good;
Love Angel's pride at 'Our kid, special!", everything else just moves at SUCH a frantic pace
The Bad;
Fred is introduced to Phantom Dennis but didn't they meet before in That Vision Thing? How non-corporeal is Sahjhan, it seems to vary?
Best line:
Linwood; "We're going to give you a second chance"
Psychic; (reading him) "No you're not, you're going to have me killed!"
Linwood; (doing just that) "See, why couldn't you come up with insight like that earlier?"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Killing the psychic with the plastic bag, euuuughhh!
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
Love the fact that the all powerful WR&H are once more betrayed by an underling, their security really does suck.
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cordy's tatt; 9,
Cheap Angel; 7
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 11
Wes: 6
Gunn; 3
Lorne; 2

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 11
Angel: 14
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 2
Kills: one vamp for Wes and one for Angel
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 28 vamps, 41 and 1/2 demons, 3 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 7 demons+2 vamp
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 8 vamps+ 6 demons.
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 7

Characters killed:
45
Recurring characters killed;
7;
Total number of Angel Investigations:
5, Angel, Cordy, Wes, Gunn and Fred

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1
Packing heat;
Wes; 4
Doyle; 1
Angel; 1
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 3 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde

Kinky dinky:
Angel; "I'd had a bad day"
Darla; "So you pushed me onto the bed and took what you wanted?"
Angel; "Seemed the thing to do"
Never got THAT on Party of Five! Which is probably why Buffy/Angel are the most popular series for adult fanfic ever. Gavin is quite the voyeur. It seems that everyone knows about Marcus/Lilah on the desktop. Angel remarks to Darla that she likes pain. Linwood dumped his wife for a younger model (perhaps literally?).
Captain Subtext;
Know the face, different character; 3
Parking garages;
5,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
Questions and observations;
The title is derived from the term when a pregnant mother feels her child move inside her for the first time (rather puts a different perspective on 'Highlander' huh?). How does Wes know so much about childbirth? WR&H lose audio for a crucial 2 days, Jasmine/PTB interference? Linwood is played by the same actor who was in 80s detective show 'Crazy like a fox'.
Marks out of 10; 8/10
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Old August 24 2010, 07:41 PM   #180
lvsxy808
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

saturn5 wrote: View Post
How non-corporeal is Sahjhan, it seems to vary?
Yeah, that's a consistently inconsistent bug. It's a major plot point that he's incorporeal, and yet he throws sand, smokes a cigarette, wears a watch, knocks on doors...

I guess they were just hoping we wouldn't notice.
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