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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old August 10 2010, 02:05 AM   #31
Jonesy
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Re: TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out???

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
And it was actually Piller himself who thought that First Contact was too dark and wanted to do a lighter movie,
That isn't as I heard it, and I don't understand why Piller would write a dark script, and then scrap it at the end simply because it was dark.
and it was Berman who didn't like his first draft. And the problem of the first draft was essentially that the characters got very young in it, so that they would have needed to recast Picard, Riker & Co.
I am not sure if we're talking about the same script. (which probably explains the mis-communication above) The original version (perhaps I should have used the word "version" instead of "draft) of "Insurrection" was sort of Trek doing Apocalypse Now. It was Picard hunting down and destroying Data. The script was completely re-written. IIRC, the original version had nothing to do with the Baku, the crew getting young, ect ect.
And Stewart didn't want to turn Picard into an action hero, he simply wanted to get rid of the "Captain stays on the bridge during missions" thing.
That was taken care of by the second season of the series. Again, I don't think we're on the same page on any of this at all. Where did I bring up anything about Stewart wanting to be an action hero?
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Old August 16 2010, 04:42 PM   #32
Landed
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Re: TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out???

I had always felt that the main problem with most of these movies was a real lack of moving on. You get the feeling with the TOS films that a significant amount of time had passed between each one (aside form TWOK/TSFS/TVH). Characters had moved on and yet were drawn back together. Each movie felt like a homecoming.

With the TNG movies, it felt like I was tuning into the TV yet again.
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Old August 16 2010, 07:15 PM   #33
doubleohfive
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Re: TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out???

About the only thing I feel we missed out on, besides good parts in these films for Troi, Geordi, Crusher and Riker, was simply more time to see the Enterprise-D on the big screen.
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Old August 16 2010, 10:17 PM   #34
Joe_Atari
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Re: TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out???

The thing that strikes me in hindsight with all seven seasons of the show and four movies behind us (in some cases gratefully behind us) -- and helped a bit by RedLetterMedia's great YouTube reviews -- is how much budgetary considerations probably led to the disconnect between the show and the films. Watching the series again you start to appreciate how much money Picard's restrained, "Ask questions first, conference, shoot later but probably not" approach saved the production. It amazes me how much of TNG was two characters pretty much just talking to each other (I'm typing this after watching "The Enemy" for the first time in years). Not that that's a bad thing at all but once they had money in the films we got action-hero Picard, lots of splosions, Borgs, dune buggies (still scratching my head about that one), etc.

I think this is why Generations is my favorite TNG film; for all its faults it looked and felt the most like a continuation of the show. After that (IMHO) the Enterprise got ugly, the uniforms got ugly, everything went dark and drab, and TNG became something unrecognizable to me.
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Old August 16 2010, 11:11 PM   #35
DGCatAniSiri
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Re: TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out???

Picard the action hero only made sense to me in First Contact. Frankly, I found it made no sense for him to be the one to stay on the Ba'ku planet and defend them while Riker goes to convince the Federation Council. Picard is the seasoned diplomat, if someone's going to convince the Council to reverse the decision, it should have been him while Riker stayed behind and defended the Ba'ku.

Of course, I still say that we should have had the Battle for Betazed as the ninth movie instead of Insurrection...
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Old August 17 2010, 05:25 PM   #36
JarodRussell
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Re: TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out???

DGCatAniSiri wrote: View Post
Picard the action hero
Aww come on. When has Picard ever been an action hero in the movies? Just because he fires a few shots and climbs around a bit. We already had that in the series a couple of times.
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Old August 17 2010, 09:29 PM   #37
swaaye
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Re: TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out???

doubleohfive wrote: View Post
About the only thing I feel we missed out on, besides good parts in these films for Troi, Geordi, Crusher and Riker, was simply more time to see the Enterprise-D on the big screen.
Indeed. It sure looks good in Generations. Then they figured out the most ridiculous way to blow it up. I kept waiting for them to unload on that BoP. Who needs shields?! Why waste precious time doing a 180 in front of a little ship that can do circles around you anyway? Why "wait to shoot until Data does his hacking"? Just use your arsenal already and slag that obsolete little scout ship. If they had put down fire like back in "The Survivors", BoP would've gone poof.

Now if the Duras sisters had been on a Vorcha-class ship, the scenario would have been much more interesting. I'm sure I've read on this forum that budget problems were the reason for that sad BoP being used. The TV Vorcha model is also likely nowhere near detailed enough for a movie and so they would probably have had to build a new one.

All of the TNG movies needed better writing though IMO.

Last edited by swaaye; August 17 2010 at 09:41 PM.
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Old August 18 2010, 12:57 AM   #38
crusher
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Location: Canada
Re: TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out???

First Contact was good yes, except for the whole Data/Borg Queen thing. The movie could have been so much better without all the nonsense. The next two movies were lacking but they hit a homerun with the last movie.
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Old August 19 2010, 12:55 PM   #39
I am not Spock
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Re: TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out???

TV eps like Captain's Holiday, Gambit, Starship Mine, etc, already had Picard doing the action hero thing, so it wasn't really out of character for him.
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Old August 20 2010, 12:31 AM   #40
indolover
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Re: TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out???

What was wrong with the Picard action hero writing? It gave him more depth as a character. And if thought about it logically, then which captain/CO wouldn't protect his facility if needed? In that sense, all Picard action hero stories were in character.
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Old August 20 2010, 12:52 AM   #41
indolover
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Re: TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out???

T'Cal wrote: View Post
Fun?? FUN?? Didn't you like Data's:
  • Mr. Tricorder
  • ...but the Ferengi in the Gorilla suit has to go.
  • Humor! I love it!
  • Lifeforms, you tiny little lifeforms...
  • No problem!
  • Oh shit!
  • ...and his lip should curl...
  • A pimple, sir.
  • Have you noticed how your boobs...
  • Never saw the sun shining so bright...
  • Why does the big man have a furry face?
  • Why? Why? Why?
  • Move, puny human animal!
How about Worf's wacky lines:
  • (falling into freezing cold water and growling)
  • It is a gorch!
  • Sir! I am experiencing aggressive tendencies!
  • Romulan Ale should be illegal.
  • Irving Berlin!
  • (bumping his head as he awoke from oversleeping)
  • Captain, I do not think it is appropriate for a Starfleet officer to appear ...naked.
Humor is a difficult concept for Trek to handle successfully. Each of the movies would've benefitted greatly if they hadn't tried so hard to be funny. Data and Worf are among the richest characters in all of Trek yet in the movies Worf the great Klingon warrior was turned into a buffoon and Data the super intelligent android was made out to be a clown. Awkward moments and fish out of water experiences can be funny but these lines were painful to hear.
Data and Worf were the comic relief characters in the show. Think of Worf lines in the TV show like:

- I am not a man
- Delicious
- I am not a merry man!
- Good tea, nice house
- I would require a Klingon woman for "companionship".
- Nice legs. Er..for a human.

So I don't think it was out of place to use them like that in the films. Data and Worf are probably the only characters who could pull off comic relief.
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Old August 20 2010, 01:18 AM   #42
doubleohfive
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Re: TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out???

I don't know. I think the humor in Generations, mostly focused on Data and Worf, and while at times hammy (the lifeforms song springs to mind...) were still within the acceptable parameters of the characters we'd seen for seven years on TV. I don't think the humor got really out of hand until Insurrection, which tried to be equal parts action/adventure and comedy.... and mostly failed on both attempts.
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Old August 20 2010, 03:42 AM   #43
indolover
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Re: TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out???

What let the latter two movies down as poor writing. Generations was good, whilst First Contact was very good.

IMO, Insurrection could still have been a rebellion movie (as obviously the title suggests) but tie it to the Dominion War. The fact most regular Joe movie goers had never heard of the Dominion matters little. Films sell big via promotion. If it's promoted that Picard and co. were at war, then it could have worked, and had a knock on effect on DS9. That would have been to Paramount's benefit, since DS9 was not a lucrative end for them (despite a high outlay).

Nemesis could have gone as thus. In the Mirror Universe, the Terran Rebellion has conquered the Cardassian part of the Alliance and wants to steal some "real" universe Starfleet ships to conquer Qo'nos. To this end, the mirror Picard transports over to the real universe and duplicated the real universe Picard. The nemesis then is the mirror Picard, since the goal of the Terran Rebellion is to destroy the mirror Qo'nos, as punishment for them being enslaved by the Klingons. Again, proper/effective promotion could have drawn in persons to see it.

Does anybody remember the Blair Witch Project from years ago? I think the only reason people went to see it (since the movie stunk to high heaven) was because of how it was promoted. Film promotion can make moviegoers see anything.
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Old August 20 2010, 05:48 AM   #44
Jetfire
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Re: TNG Movies...Are We Missing Out???

^
I think promotion would work in playing on peoples fears...like the tech actually exists(which Joe movie goer would find unnerving)...not so much in a spoofy Galaxy Quest way...but really play on peoples imagination...maybe even get NASA involved in the publicity.

I read this back and forget I said anything.

[edit] This really wouldn't work for a TNG movie...it would have for Star Trek 2009.
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