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Old August 15 2010, 12:44 PM   #16
Wynterhawk
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Re: Bioshock Infinite (Bioshock 3)

I.... don't know. I'm a fan of Bioshock and rapture and the eerieness that accompanies that. I saw the trailer and while it was relatively ambiguous and thrilling, I don't know if I really like the storyline or the atmosphere. But, I'll give it a look-see.
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Old August 15 2010, 03:26 PM   #17
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Re: Bioshock Infinite (Bioshock 3)

Meh... to me, BioShock is the world of Rapture. It's being underwater. It's splicers and Big Daddies. This is just taking an entirely new story, new setting and time time period and slapping the BioShock branding on it to make it more marketable. But to me, this is NOT BioShock.

I'm not saying that this will be a bad game. It might be an awesome game. I just don't think it should be connected to the existing franchise.
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Old August 15 2010, 03:48 PM   #18
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Re: Bioshock Infinite (Bioshock 3)

^Surely that depends on the game itself? We know nothing of it other than a Video that is likely completely unrelated.
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Old August 15 2010, 03:52 PM   #19
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Re: Bioshock Infinite (Bioshock 3)

If the bean-counters at 2K games think the game will make x% more money simply by having the BioShock name on it, it's going to have the name on it. You and I have the luxury of making an artistic decision, the publishers and developers less so.

I'm willing to bet they'll shoehorn in some characters related to the first BioShock games to keep continuity.
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Old August 15 2010, 05:09 PM   #20
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Re: Bioshock Infinite (Bioshock 3)

Teelie wrote: View Post
There's far too little to know just what the game is really about yet but it does hint at the whole Imperialism angle.
That's mostly coming through via material presented outside the trailer:

Levine talks about President McKinley questioning whether they should annex the Philippines, just freed from Spain. At which point Levine reads a full quote from McKinley on the issue, as he tossed and turned whether he should do this potentially horrible thing…

"I walked the floor of the White House night after night until midnight; and I am not ashamed to tell you, gentlemen, that I went down on my knees and prayed to Almighty God for light and guidance more than one night. And one night late it came to me this way – I don’t know how it was, but it came: (1) That we could not give them back to Spain – that would be cowardly and dishonorable; (2) that we could not turn them over to France or Germany – our commercial rivals in the Orient – that would be bad business and discreditable; (3) that we could not leave them to themselves – they were unfit for self-government – and they would soon have anarchy and misrule over there worse than Spain’s was; and (4) that there was nothing left for us to do but to take them all, and to educate the Filipinos, and uplift and civilize and Christianize them, and by God’s grace do the very best we could by them, as our fellow men for whom Christ also died. And then I went to bed and went to sleep and slept soundly."

That’s what Bioshock: Infinite is about.

When the demo finishes and Levine leaves the stage, and an enormous image appears on the background. A presidential figure with the bell of liberty in one hand, surrounded by crude stereotypes of immigrants of all stripes. The legend beneath it screams: “It is our holy duty to guard against the foreign hordes”. Repurposed period propaganda posters set the tone. “Her eyes.. so blue! Her skin… so white!” asks one poster “… or are they?” before warning about hidden genetic [im]purity. They permeate the game – “FOR FAITH! FOR RACE! FOR FATHERLAND!” caught my eye along with warnings about the ever-elusive “they” taking your gun, wife and just about everything else.
It seems clear enough that Columbia in the game is America, and that its terrible transition from peaceful world fair to rogue war machine mirrors America's own ideological fall from grace. Like Rapture, Columbia is the failure of a dream.

Regardless of whether or not one agrees with the message, this is clearly a game with something to say, and if nothing else is notable for that reason alone. Bioshock 2 picked an easy target (which isn't to say I agree with the simplistic notion that Lamb = Marx; I suspect that those who actually go along with that didn't pay nearly close enough attention to either Lamb or Marx ) and Bioshock's was only a little more challenging; but it strikes me that the sacred cow chosen for this game could conceivably ruffle enough feathers to have a measurable impact on its financial success; particularly given that the 'it's an FPS therefore I shall buy it and play it like Halo (and then complain when it turns out not to be like Halo)' crowd was already dispensed with back with the first game.
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Old August 15 2010, 07:43 PM   #21
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Re: Bioshock Infinite (Bioshock 3)

FordSVT wrote: View Post
If the bean-counters at 2K games think the game will make x% more money simply by having the BioShock name on it, it's going to have the name on it. You and I have the luxury of making an artistic decision, the publishers and developers less so.

I'm willing to bet they'll shoehorn in some characters related to the first BioShock games to keep continuity.
Someone made the joke that Columbia will fall into the see and become Rapture at the end of the game... and the big twist is that somehow the character you play is Andrew Ryan.

If it hasn't been answered yet, I think the another question is whether or not the game will have death match. Given Bioshock 2 had like 5 developers working on it, I figure they took a bath developing a multiplayer that no one played.

One thing the game needs to address is race, since the in game posters seem to indicate a "white only" society. Bioshock 2 tried to address this with one of the characters being black, but it was all "we were supposed to be equal but old prejudices never die" or some such. These Columbian people have to just be rampant racists. Bonus points if they make the main character/player character racist as well, just to make everyone uncomfortable with playing a hero who we would considered flawed.
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Old August 15 2010, 11:31 PM   #22
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Re: Bioshock Infinite (Bioshock 3)

firehawk12 wrote: View Post
Someone made the joke that Columbia will fall into the see and become Rapture at the end of the game... and the big twist is that somehow the character you play is Andrew Ryan.

That's a clever thought and if that's the twist that would be really cool.

Re:race

While I think race should be addressed, and that Bioshock 2 managed to touch upon it without being too offensive, I don't know if I want to trust a video game to handle it properly.
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Old August 16 2010, 01:00 AM   #23
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Re: Bioshock Infinite (Bioshock 3)

From a podcast I heard earlier, one of the posters from the demo is apparently a picture of Uncle Sam surrounded by non-white people with a tagline like: "Stop the Foreign Horde". That seems fairly evocative anyway.

Doing a game about creating an ideal America during the height of segregation without addressing the race issue would seem disingenuous at the very least.
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Old August 16 2010, 01:01 AM   #24
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Re: Bioshock Infinite (Bioshock 3)

From a podcast I heard earlier, one of the posters from the demo is apparently a picture of Uncle Sam surrounded by non-white people with a tagline like: "Stop the Foreign Horde". That seems fairly evocative anyway.

Doing a game about creating an ideal America during the height of segregation without addressing the race issue would seem disingenuous at the very least.
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Old August 16 2010, 01:08 AM   #25
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Re: Bioshock Infinite (Bioshock 3)

firehawk12 wrote: View Post
Someone made the joke that Columbia will fall into the see and become Rapture at the end of the game...
If that's the case - which I doubt - it'd contradict Bioshock 2's account of Rapture's construction.

For the moment I'm willing to give Irrational the benefit of the doubt re: the association between this game and Bioshock. Whatever the association, though, it won't make the title any more palatable. On a purely aesthetic level it's horrific. Like Captain America: The First Avenger or whatever it's called.

One thing the game needs to address is race, since the in game posters seem to indicate a "white only" society. Bioshock 2 tried to address this with one of the characters being black, but it was all "we were supposed to be equal but old prejudices never die" or some such.
That was as much about class as it was race. Recall that Grace ran Pauper's Drop. Transcribing from the audio files:

"Andrew Ryan told me that in Rapture it didn't matter where you came from. Bunk! Times got hard and all our old bigotries bubbled right back up. But Dr. Lamb showed us that down under the skin, down under the money, down under our very name; we ... are ... family."

"Blood divides us, monster; it's blood that makes us strangers. But thanks to Dr. Lamb, we're all family now. One people. One cause. You can stop this heart, bleed this old body, but you cannot end the family. And as for you, tin daddy, you're dyin' alone."
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Old August 16 2010, 01:18 AM   #26
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Re: Bioshock Infinite (Bioshock 3)

I think I took that as class and race being the same - since in the 50s, they were intrinsically linked together (no black Presidents back then, as far as I can remember!).
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Old August 16 2010, 01:31 AM   #27
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Re: Bioshock Infinite (Bioshock 3)

firehawk12 wrote: View Post
I think I took that as class and race being the same - since in the 50s, they were intrinsically linked together (no black Presidents back then, as far as I can remember!).
I guess I'd argue that there's usually a strong - if not uncomplicated - association between class and other social tensions. I mean, one of the most enduring stereotypes about Jews is that they're 'in the money'. And the numbers back that up.

At the very least I think class differences and the stereotypes associated with that magnify racial tensions.
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Old August 16 2010, 01:42 AM   #28
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Re: Bioshock Infinite (Bioshock 3)

Yes, but in the case of America, it's race that manufactured a lot of the class problems. The fact that black kids couldn't even go to state colleges, let alone get elected to public office or get hired at large corporations created the economic conditions that they found themselves in.

I mean, let's face it, back then white Americans didn't hate black Americans because they were poor. It's not like Rosa Parks would have been able to sit at the front of the bus if she had exact fare.
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Old August 16 2010, 02:15 AM   #29
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Re: Bioshock Infinite (Bioshock 3)

Fair points.
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Old June 11 2011, 11:55 AM   #30
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Re: Bioshock Infinite (Bioshock 3)

Bioshock Impressions (In Brief: It Looks Spectacular)
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