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Old August 13 2010, 09:22 PM   #16
Trekker4747
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

saturn5 wrote: View Post
Better format?
Slightly. I still, personally, think you need to make the headings of your sections bolded to distinguish them from the list themselves, get rid of the parentheticals ("title the porn industry thought of!", "see I spelled it right!", etc.) and the "FONT" tags do not work on the board so they're just clutter and Times Roman is a shitty font anyway. But the double-hard returns between each section is a huge improvement.

But still a good review if a bit too, for my tastes, bogged down in clutter and statistic keeping. I'm much more interested in your thoughts on the episode, how the show works, how the characters are evolving and what you think of the seires so-far up to this point.

"Safe" is probably one of my least favorite episodes which is like picking one of my least favorite times of sex with Jewel Staite. It's sort of a "something has to be at the bottom" thing. It had aspects I liked, Simon really being shown he's "part of the crew" by Mal and getting a bit more into the "past" with River and Simon but I found the "kidnapped"/"witch" stuff a bit hokey. Still, damn just thinking about parts of this episode and the character moments and stuff just makes me wish this series got more than a half-season. This could've been an awesome series.
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Old August 13 2010, 10:23 PM   #17
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Geez... This thread sounded interesting to read, but man oh man... saturn5, you need to learn how to write properly. How to put your thoughts on paper.

Right now it is close to unreadable. It looks more like a stream of consciousness dumped to paper. With some formatting and cutting it would be a lot better.
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Old August 13 2010, 11:44 PM   #18
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Pemmer Harge wrote: View Post
I thought Safe was the best episode so far. It felt more substantial than the earlier ones and was pretty exciting too.
I think it's "safe" to say that Safe is generally regarded as the weakest of all firefly episodes. If you like this, it only gets better

That said, the episode does have one of the very best exchanges in the show:
RIVER: They weren't cows inside. They were waiting to be, but they forgot. Now they see sky and they remember what they are.

MAL: Is it bad that what she just said makes perfect sense to me?
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Old August 13 2010, 11:52 PM   #19
Trekker4747
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Mal wrote: View Post
Pemmer Harge wrote: View Post
I thought Safe was the best episode so far. It felt more substantial than the earlier ones and was pretty exciting too.
I think it's "safe" to say that Safe is generally regarded as the weakest of all firefly episodes. If you like this, it only gets better
"Safe" and "Heart of Gold" are the two weakest episodes for me (pretty much in that order) but, again, they're only the weakest because something has to be and they're still a lot more watchable than some of Trek's weakest episodes.

That said, the episode does have one of the very best exchanges in the show:
RIVER: They weren't cows inside. They were waiting to be, but they forgot. Now they see sky and they remember what they are.

MAL: Is it bad that what she just said makes perfect sense to me?
I did love that line.
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Old August 14 2010, 12:01 PM   #20
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Watching Firefly still frustrates me. Not because of the show itself, its awesome, but because of Fox. It's such a shame it only got a half season. I would have been interested in seeing more of this universe. Sigh. At least we got the movie to wrap some things up.
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Old August 14 2010, 03:18 PM   #21
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
saturn5 wrote: View Post
Better format?
But still a good review if a bit too, for my tastes, bogged down in clutter and statistic keeping. I'm much more interested in your thoughts on the episode, how the show works, how the characters are evolving and what you think of the seires so-far up to this point.
Hyperspace05 wrote: View Post
Right now it is close to unreadable. It looks more like a stream of consciousness dumped to paper. With some formatting and cutting it would be a lot better.
My thoughts ezzakly. In the Buffy thread, I basically skim thru, skipping the massive piles of statistics and just reading the precious few thoughts that pertain to the episode itself. And I really don't care about the fanficcers and shippers stuff.

On the episode: While I don't DISlike any episodes of Firefly, I really don't like the "she's a wiiitch!!!" aspect of this one. Hard to believe anyone would still act that way 500 years from now, especially in a society that obviously embraces multiple religions living side-by-side.

On Zoe's "cut down" rifle: The official name for a Winchester cut down like that is a "Mare's Leg," and it's officially classified as a handgun under current federal law because of its short barrel (less than 16") and lack of a shoulder stock.
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Old August 14 2010, 04:22 PM   #22
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Yeah, the reviews are way too heavy on statistics and light on substance. I've watched these episodes countless times, I really don't need to know about all of the "notches on the bed post."
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Old August 14 2010, 04:50 PM   #23
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Forbin wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
saturn5 wrote: View Post
Better format?
But still a good review if a bit too, for my tastes, bogged down in clutter and statistic keeping. I'm much more interested in your thoughts on the episode, how the show works, how the characters are evolving and what you think of the seires so-far up to this point.
Hyperspace05 wrote: View Post
Right now it is close to unreadable. It looks more like a stream of consciousness dumped to paper. With some formatting and cutting it would be a lot better.
My thoughts ezzakly. In the Buffy thread, I basically skim thru, skipping the massive piles of statistics and just reading the precious few thoughts that pertain to the episode itself. And I really don't care about the fanficcers and shippers stuff.

On the episode: While I don't DISlike any episodes of Firefly, I really don't like the "she's a wiiitch!!!" aspect of this one. Hard to believe anyone would still act that way 500 years from now, especially in a society that obviously embraces multiple religions living side-by-side.

On Zoe's "cut down" rifle: The official name for a Winchester cut down like that is a "Mare's Leg," and it's officially classified as a handgun under current federal law because of its short barrel (less than 16") and lack of a shoulder stock.
Didn't know that about the Mare's Leg. As for the notches, well, not so many so far, married Wash and Zoe seem to have the most sex
Anyway, cleaned up format, see if you like this better;

Our Mrs Reynolds
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2] 
[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] 
The good;
The Mal/Jayne exchange on the wagon cracks me up every time. Some great acting by Christina Hendricks and the scene where everyone stands around judging Mal upon meeting his bride is hilarious. Some nice tension too as they ingeniously slip the net.
 
The bad;

?
 
Best line;
Mal; "How drunk was I last night?"
Jayne; "I don't know I passed out"
plus
Mal; "You've the same right as anyone to live and kill people"
 
Packing heat
;
One of the bandits appears to pack a Springfield rifle. Jayne shows Mal 'Vera', his 'Callahan full bore autolock assault rifle' which needs oxygen to work. I must say I was totally fooled by this scene, I knew Jayne wasn't threatening Mal but I thought he was actually giving the gun to him as a wedding present.


Kinky dinky;
Mal cross dresses. The bandit leader demands 'one on one time' with Jayne's missus. Zoe refers to Saffron as Mal's 'nubile slave girl'. When Mal finds a naked Saffron in his bed she declares she's 'made herself ready for him', she started without him? She 'swells to think of you in me' as indeed does he. It's been a 'long while' for Mal. Wash likes forward women. Jayne never kisses his women on the mouth. Another thank you kiss from Mal to Kaylee.
 
Notches on the Serenity bedpost
; incredibly Mal resists

Inarra;1-a paying customer who wishes to make her his kept woman, 1 possible, Atherton.
Wash; 1-the missus
Zoe; 1-the hubby

 
Capt subtext
;
Obvious jealousy from Inara, the only other member of the crew who's not laughing at all this. Also jealousy from Zoe, maybe over Mal but also over Wash seeming to like Saffron. Note her pride later when she learns that Wash resisted and stayed true to her. Kaylees's the only one who doesn't feel jealous, she feels for a crying Saffron describing Mal as a monster for upsetting her. Huge battle of seduction between Inara and Saffron but who's conning who? Like all straight men Mal loves the idea of two women together, thinking that Inara kissed Saffron rather than him.
 
How'd they get away with that?


.
Total Serenity crew; 9
Mal, Zoe, Jayne, Wash, Kaylee, Inarra, Book, Simon, River

Subverting the Hollywood cliche;
 
Whedon cliches;
Devoted siblings, haunted charismatic leading man. Teenage girls with superpowers. Hookers. Babbling insane girls with truth in their madness. Fake cockneys. Misguided religious zealots. Numbered t-shirts. Girls with botanical names (Willow, Saffron, Jasmine). Absent fathers, Mal raised by his mother and 40 ranch hands.
Bondage;
Mal; 1
River; 1
 
Knocked out
; Mal by the goodnight kiss, Inara by a secondhand goodnight kiss, Wash the old fashioned way
Book; 2
Simon; 1
Kaylee; 1
Jayne;1
Mal; 1
Wash; 1
Inara; 1
 
Women good/men bad
;
If Saffron is to be believed girls on the backward planet are kept in a 'maiden's home' and given away in arranged marriages. Mal decares Saffron 'No one's property'. Zoe takes exception to the idea that she might cook for Wash.
 
Kills
; Mal, Zoe and Jayne kill 2 of the bandits each. Jayne kills 2 of the wreckers.
Mal; 11-
Zoe; 6-
Jayne; 6-
 
Happy high-class hookers in Space
;
Saffron refuses to be a 'doxy' and expresses contempt for them. Mal never beats around the bush and refers to it as 'whoring'. Inara actually thinks the arranged marriage is degrading. Also she reveals her speciality is washing her client's feet.
 
Know the face?
 
Whedon alumni- Joss likes to reuse the same actors in his series, let's count up their appearances (let me know if I miss any)
Nathan Fillon-3; Firefly, Caleb in S7 of Buffy and Dr Horrible
Gina Torres-2; Firefly and Jasmine in S4 of Angel
Alan Tudyk-2; Firefly and the villainous/heroic(?) Alpha in Dollhouse (haven't seen season 2 so don't spoil it for me)
Adam Baldwin-2; Firefly and Marcus Hamilton in S5 of Angel
Summer Glau-3; Firefly, Dollhouse and the prima ballerina in the LEGENDARY S4 Angel ep 'Waiting in the wings'.
Carlos Jacott-3; The Fed in Firefly, Ken in the 'Anne' ep of Buffy and Richard Straley in 'The Bachelor Party' ep of Angel.
Andy Umberger;3-the captain of the Dortmunder in Firefly, D'Hoffryn in Buffy, the psychic surgeon in the Angel ep 'I fall to pieces'.
Mark Shepherd;2-Badger in Firefly and later turns up as one of Ballard's FBI colleagues in Dollhouse. Also a BSG alumni.
Jeff Rickets;3- one of the blue handed men in Firefly and Weatherby on Buffy/Angel plus the spiderdemon at the end of Angel season 4
Gregg Henry; 2- he's one of those faces that occur time and again in TV/movies, the Sherrif in The Train Job and he later recurrs in the Dollhouse ep 'Ghost', one of my favourite eps of season 1.
Christina Hendricks; 2-Saffron in Firefly and a bar maid in the Angel ep 'The Prodigal'. She'll later star in Mad Men with Whedonverse alumni Vincent Kartheiser.
 
Alliance good or bad?;

One of the bandits they kill is the wayward nephew of a senior alliance member. Mal&co probably wouldn't be in trouble but with Simon and River on board they don't want to chance it so don't hang around.
 
Fanfic;
Plenty where Saffron seduces Mal, Inara and any and all of the entire crew. The adventures of Mr and Mrs Reynolds also popular.
 
Missing scenes;

 
Western cliches;
Settlers in gingham dresses that would look apt in Oklahoma. Mal's mum owned a ranch, he really was a cowboy.
 
Firefly speak;
Gorram=goddam.
Weak tea=not good
Back birth=idiot
Companion=high class courtesan
Gengish=competent
Doh-ma=understand/understood?
Rutting=bloody (or perhaps 'fraking'?)
Chin-cha-da=hell
Purple belly=officious bureaucrat
Ta-gow=Oh god!
Won-gwa-pee= to urinate or defecate
Gosa=excrement
Tien-sha-duh=rubbish
Los-soh-ret=crap
Dien-dyododo-chowen=bastard
Wah=what the hell?
Mah song=quickly
Jin-seen-yung=idiot
Nu-shu-quong=nice going
 
Shot; .
Mal; 1-
Kaylee;1-
Jayne;1-
Book;1-
 
Crew injured;

Wash gets a nasty old crack on the skull. Amazingly no one hits Simon for once.
 
Reminds me off;
Here we see the gang as hired guns running bandits off a small town, much like the Magnificent 7 (or The A-team?). Saffron uses the term 'doxy' which I've only ever heard used before by Wes on Angel about Cordelia and her friends. Wash's story of geese juggling reminds me a little of Steve Martin's film The Jerk. The wreckers are very Jamaica Inn/The Fog. Mal's assertion that he beats Saffron because of his loyal crew of friends is very like Angel to Marcus in Carpe Noctem and Spike's definition of why Buffy always triumphs.
 
Questions and observations;
The opening dirge is very Xena. We see the friendship between Mal and Jayne developing to a great degree, they seem more like buddies in this ep than before. Is Bau a real dish? We learn a little more about Mal, he's from the planet Shadow. The way the wreckers refer to the Firefly she sounds like the Volkswagon Beetle of spaceships. Note Saffron seduces Mal not with her body so much as flattering him for his morality. Inara pretty handy in a fight, maybe they teach more than footwashing at the academy. Why don't they all just pile into Inara's shuttle when they're being lured into the net? Or if they depressurise the cargo bay wouldn't it alter their course? Presumably the suit keeps pumping oxygen in when the visor is shattered allowing Vera to still function in a vaccum. Very little River in this ep, does she even have any lines?
.
Marks out of 10; 8 bordering on a 9, really good, up there with Serenity as the best ep so far, funny, thrilling and some great character moments, really like Saffron and I hope we might see her again, I hope the rest of the series is this good.
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Old August 14 2010, 04:55 PM   #24
Trekker4747
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

FONT AND SIZE TAGS DO NOT WORK ON THIS BOARD!!!!

And what's with the odd symbols in the paragraph breaks?

Also, still, too much statistical stuff and not enough substance.

Tell us more about the episode, what you think of the characters, their motivations, what's happened here, the humor in the scenes what life in this universe is like. I don't friggin' care what kind of 20th century prop guns were used to represent their 25th century coutnerparts, I don't care about how many times people were knocked out.

I want to know what you think of the show!
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Old August 14 2010, 08:25 PM   #25
McCoy
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Trekker, dude, relax about the tags it's no big deal.

saturn5 it's much more readable now.
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Old August 14 2010, 08:39 PM   #26
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews



look, we're only criticizing because we care - we're all glad you're doing these reviews, and we all want your reviews to be better.

here's one handy tip: there is a Preview Post button. use it at least once before you hit Submit Post, read the whole thing through, and make whatever edits are obvious. i'm sure that will fix half the problems in your reviews.

now, i'll just point out a few quite fixes that should help you out:

saturn5 wrote: View Post
As for the notches, well, not so many so far, married Wash and Zoe seem to have the most sex
exactly. here's my suggestion, if you really must keep track of "notches" and "packing heat" and "knocked out" then please, only post those statistics in the reviews of episodes where they change.

i'll say it again: you can keep a running tally of these things on your computer. and if in fact there is a change (a new notch, or whatever) during the course of an episode, then post that section. if no change, then leave that section out. simple, easy improvement.

saturn5 wrote: View Post
Anyway, cleaned up format, see if you like this better;
Our Mrs Reynolds
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2] 
[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] 
how can we like "[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]" etc. better? this is why i'll say again, use the Preview Post button.

saturn5 wrote: View Post

Best line;
Mal; "How drunk was I last night?"
Jayne; "I don't know I passed out"
plus
Mal; "You've the same right as anyone to live and kill people"
here's why we're excited to have you doing these reviews - most people would say the Special Hell spiel by Book was the best line. But these are great too. it's wonderful to have a new perspective

saturn5 wrote: View Post

Packing heat
;
One of the bandits appears to pack a Springfield rifle. Jayne shows Mal 'Vera', his 'Callahan full bore autolock assault rifle' which needs oxygen to work. I must say I was totally fooled by this scene, I knew Jayne wasn't threatening Mal but I thought he was actually giving the gun to him as a wedding present.
this is probably the first episode where Packing Heat is an essential component of a review, in that Vera is pretty damn central to firefly mythology. it works here, but that doesn't mean you have to include this section every single episode.

saturn5 wrote: View Post
Kinky dinky;
go back through this thread and see if anyone (even one person) enjoys this section.

saturn5 wrote: View Post
Notches on the Serenity bedpost; incredibly Mal resists

Inarra;1-a paying customer who wishes to make her his kept woman, 1 possible, Atherton.
Wash; 1-the missus
Zoe; 1-the hubby
nothing changed this episode, so leave this section out for this review. easy, simply improvement.

saturn5 wrote: View Post

Capt subtext
;
here's why this section rarely works for your reviews: there isn't a whole lot of subtext in firefly - the adults on this show are perfectly capable and willing to display their true feels without resort to angst or passive aggressiveness (except Inara & Mal, but that's why we love them!). there are some very notable exceptions such as the very last episode, but again, this section will be most appreciated when it is used sparingly.

saturn5 wrote: View Post
 
How'd they get away with that?
see, you can leave a section blank when nothing changes! now you just have to learn to leave it out altogether when there is nothing to report. same applies to -
saturn5 wrote: View Post
.
Total Serenity crew; 9
Mal, Zoe, Jayne, Wash, Kaylee, Inarra, Book, Simon, River
nothing changes = leave it out for now.
saturn5 wrote: View Post
Know the face?
Fanfic;
no one cares.
 
saturn5 wrote: View Post
Happy high-class hookers in Space;
Western cliches;
Women good/men bad;
Firefly speak;
Alliance good or bad?;
look, these are really interesting and central aspects of firefly lore, and we'd love to hear your thoughts on them. but it doesn't work so well when you just shove them into every single review.

some episodes really do tell us a lot about the Alliance, and it'd be a great time to point out the gray area in which the crew of Serenity operate. other episodes are heavy on the Companion aspect of this 'verse, and we'd love to hear your thoughts on how that compares to the part of the world you live in, or other parts of the world you might have traveled to or read about.

a western in space - wagon train to the stars - lay it on us! just don't force every review to say something about it in a standardized format.

you're writing a review, not doing your taxes.


saturn5 wrote: View Post
Questions and observations;
The opening dirge is very Xena. We see the friendship between Mal and Jayne developing to a great degree, they seem more like buddies in this ep than before. Is Bau a real dish? We learn a little more about Mal, he's from the planet Shadow. The way the wreckers refer to the Firefly she sounds like the Volkswagon Beetle of spaceships. Note Saffron seduces Mal not with her body so much as flattering him for his morality. Inara pretty handy in a fight, maybe they teach more than footwashing at the academy. Why don't they all just pile into Inara's shuttle when they're being lured into the net? Or if they depressurise the cargo bay wouldn't it alter their course? Presumably the suit keeps pumping oxygen in when the visor is shattered allowing Vera to still function in a vaccum. Very little River in this ep, does she even have any lines?
.
Marks out of 10; 8 bordering on a 9, really good, up there with Serenity as the best ep so far, funny, thrilling and some great character moments, really like Saffron and I hope we might see her again, I hope the rest of the series is this good.
this is all we really care about. and it's the only reason we criticize. because we want more of this

keep flying.
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Old August 14 2010, 09:30 PM   #27
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Mal wrote: View Post
Pemmer Harge wrote: View Post
I thought Safe was the best episode so far. It felt more substantial than the earlier ones and was pretty exciting too.
I think it's "safe" to say that Safe is generally regarded as the weakest of all firefly episodes. If you like this, it only gets better
Personally, I found a few of the early episodes, especially Bushwhacked and The Train Job a bit slight. Not bad, but they didn't really grab me. What I especially like about Safe is the character focus on Simon and River.

I've not seen the whole series yet, but it does seem to get better as it goes on. Out of Gas and Ariel are the last two I saw and they're definitely my favourite episodes so far.
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Old August 15 2010, 01:02 AM   #28
McCoy
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

By the way, saturn5, will you be including the Serenity film in this thread?
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Old August 15 2010, 08:50 AM   #29
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

I would drink Saffron's bathwater. Damn, she is F - I - N - E! I really love this episode. It's quite funny.
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Old August 15 2010, 05:00 PM   #30
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Vera: No cartridge firearm (and Vera is obviously one) needs "air around her" to fire. Every cartridge has everything it needs right inside it. Guns can be fired in vacuum, and even underwater. It's been tried and proven. This was just a case of writers not knowing shit about something.

Saffron: Dynamite bod, butterface, IMHO. I know I'm almost alone in this.

The Reviews: I agree with everything Mal wrote above. I'm reading the prose paragraphs and skimming over all the pointless stats.
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