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Old July 31 2010, 10:16 AM   #121
captcalhoun
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Re: THe Sorrows of Empire - Expanded version

wasn't there a comment in the DB,IP episode that Julian may not have needed treatment and that he could've grown up fine if his 'rents hadn't interfered...
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Old July 31 2010, 08:06 PM   #122
T'Ressa Dax
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Re: THe Sorrows of Empire - Expanded version

I don't know, but I think it's possible. Poor hand-eye cooridination? There's this little thing called practice, which works very well. I should know.
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Old August 1 2010, 04:46 AM   #123
Corran Horn
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Re: THe Sorrows of Empire - Expanded version

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
wasn't there a comment in the DB,IP episode that Julian may not have needed treatment and that he could've grown up fine if his 'rents hadn't interfered...
Yes, he stated that they didn't really give him a chance.

He wasn't the authority on that, but it is possible.
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Old June 7 2015, 05:54 AM   #124
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Re: THe Sorrows of Empire - Expanded version

Just finished this book. Really liked it. I have not read the original so maybe someday I will backtrack and do that.
I liked how we got to see the events of the movies play out differently (and similarly) but one question....

So the Whales are fine in MU? "Hey Probe, thanks for stopping by but all good here. .." LOL
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Old June 7 2015, 01:56 PM   #125
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Re: THe Sorrows of Empire - Expanded version

PKS8304 wrote: View Post
Just finished this book. Really liked it. I have not read the original so maybe someday I will backtrack and do that.
The original is basically just Chapters 1, 2, 5, 23, 24, 26, 33-35, 39, 40, 45, 47, 49, and 50 of the expanded version. I don't think much of anything was changed, aside from maybe a few slight textual tweaks. So if you've read the longer version, you've essentially already read the shorter version.
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Old June 7 2015, 02:03 PM   #126
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Re: THe Sorrows of Empire - Expanded version

Christopher wrote: View Post
PKS8304 wrote: View Post
Just finished this book. Really liked it. I have not read the original so maybe someday I will backtrack and do that.
The original is basically just Chapters 1, 2, 5, 23, 24, 26, 33-35, 39, 40, 45, 47, 49, and 50 of the expanded version. I don't think much of anything was changed, aside from maybe a few slight textual tweaks. So if you've read the longer version, you've essentially already read the shorter version.
FWIW This is what David said about the differences between the two versions in my interview with him for Uneality SF back around the time of the release of the novel version:

The fact that the novel is an expansion of an existing story might lead to scepticism amongst readers as to whether the new version is worth buying. What, in David’s opinion, makes the new Sorrows a worthwhile read? “The first reason is that the new novel is more than twice the length of the original, clocking in at around 92,000 words.” But quantity isn’t everything, so David has made sure to improve the existing material, too. “In the course of adding new material, mostly in the form of new chapters, I have also taken the opportunity to streamline much of the original work. In some cases this was done to mesh old and new material; in other cases I was addressing stylistic issues, tweaking my word choices, or otherwise applying the lessons I have learned in the last few years since I wrote the original.”


The expansion has also given him the chance to explore some plot elements and characters which were sidelined in the short novel in more depth. “I’ve plumbed deeper into characters other than Spock,” he reveals, “and I’ve detailed at least one event from each of the 28 years spanned by the story. Marlena’s point of view is given greater examination, and I’ve worked to better integrate the characters who previously had made only cameos – in particular, Saavik and, to a lesser degree, T’Prynn from the Vanguard series.”
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Old June 7 2015, 03:31 PM   #127
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Re: THe Sorrows of Empire - Expanded version

PKS8304 wrote: View Post
I liked how we got to see the events of the movies play out differently (and similarly) but one question....

So the Whales are fine in MU? "Hey Probe, thanks for stopping by but all good here. .." LOL
Maybe the Probe or its progenitor civilization exterminated the cetaceans during its first attempt to make contact with them, when they refused to serve its ends? It doesn't need to come back. And of course if there were evidence of possible extraterrestrial annihilation on Earth of the past, who knows how more swiftly and with how much more militant prepardness humans might have conquered space...

Just a thought.
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Old June 15 2015, 04:02 AM   #128
JD
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Re: THe Sorrows of Empire - Expanded version

PKS8304 wrote: View Post
Just finished this book. Really liked it. I have not read the original so maybe someday I will backtrack and do that.
I liked how we got to see the events of the movies play out differently (and similarly) but one question....

So the Whales are fine in MU? "Hey Probe, thanks for stopping by but all good here. .." LOL
Have you read the Myriad Universes novella (or is it a short novel) The Chimes at Midnight? The whole story is looking at the an alternate version of the movies. I know it covers from around the time of Wrath of Kahn to at least The Voyage Home, possibly up to The Undiscovered Country, I can't remember for sure.
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Old June 15 2015, 04:09 AM   #129
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Re: THe Sorrows of Empire - Expanded version

^Yes, they're all short novels. And Chimes ends around 2290, a few years before TUC.
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Old June 15 2015, 12:50 PM   #130
PKS8304
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Re: THe Sorrows of Empire - Expanded version

JD wrote: View Post
PKS8304 wrote: View Post
Just finished this book. Really liked it. I have not read the original so maybe someday I will backtrack and do that.
I liked how we got to see the events of the movies play out differently (and similarly) but one question....

So the Whales are fine in MU? "Hey Probe, thanks for stopping by but all good here. .." LOL
Have you read the Myriad Universes novella (or is it a short novel) The Chimes at Midnight? The whole story is looking at the an alternate version of the movies. I know it covers from around the time of Wrath of Kahn to at least The Voyage Home, possibly up to The Undiscovered Country, I can't remember for sure.
Have not gotten the Myriad books but I will definitely check them out
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Old June 16 2015, 08:09 PM   #131
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Re: THe Sorrows of Empire - Expanded version

In the MU, perhaps the Empire somehow managed to destroy the whale probe before it reached Earth. Some kind of doomsday weapon or something like that. Or the probe could have simply avoided Mirror Earth altogether so as not to have to deal with those nasty mirror humans.

Or, even more fancifully, maybe the alt-Earth just never had the extinction of the humpback whales. Without that, the probe would have no reason to threaten Earth at all.
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