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Old July 23 2010, 10:34 AM   #91
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

BLIND DATE

The Good;

Lindsay's dilemma and Angel's solution to it. The final battle. Best of all though has to be Gunn's entrance to WR&H, one day he'll have a very different persepctive. The mind-reader line up is also a winner.

The Bad;

Would WR&H really be so forgiving of Lindsey?

Best line:

Cordy; "Are you telling me self-mutilating psycho assassin chick reached enlightenment?"

Jeez, how did they get away with that?

Angel shows remarkably little sympathy for Lindsey's story of his dead sibling but then he was from an age where most kids didn't make it out of infancy. Killing Lee is horrible, scumbag though he is, even Lilah has a horrified reaction to it, suggesting the woman beneath the mask.

Apocalypses: 4

Angel Cliches

Damsel in distress;

Inverting the Hollywood cliche; In every other genre handicapped people are inspirational, of course in the Jossverse they're EVIL!

In disguise; 4

DB get's his shirt off; 7

Cordy's tattoo;3

Cheap Angel;

4

Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 8
Wes: 2

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 9
Angel: 10
Wes: 4
Doyle; 1


Kills:
Cordy: 3 vamps, 1½ demons
Angel: 2 vamps and one human so 16 vamps, 10 and 1/2 demons, 3 humans.
Doyle; 1 vamp

Wes; 1/2 a demon

Kate; 3 vamps

Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.

Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 6

Characters killed:

25

Recurring characters killed; byebye Lee although he's evil so screw him

2;


Total number of Angel Investigations:
3, Angel and Cordy and Wes

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 8,

Packing heat;

Wes; 2

Doyle; 1

Angel; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 2 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast
Angel: 1;Buffy

Kinky dinky:

Lee asks Lindsey does he find the assassin sexy, you get the impression they both do

Captain Subtext;

Holland really does treat Lindsey like he's his son or something.

Know the face, different character; 2

Parking garages;

4,

Guantanamo Bay;

Buffy characters on Angel; 11, Cordy talks to Willow here but we don't see her. She says hello to Wes, AH and AD having just married

Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla

Questions and observations;

Vanessa Brewer is actually played by CC's stunt double, always nice when that happens (LL's stunt double on Xena would go on to play a recurring characters in the show). This also marks the entrance of the great Sam Anderson as Holland. Angel kills another human and has very little remorse about doing so, very different from Buffy. The scroll refers to the 'vampire with the soul', obstensibly Angel but by season 5 maybe Spike too?

Marks out of 10; 8/10, good ep
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Old July 23 2010, 05:32 PM   #92
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

saturn5 wrote: View Post
THE RING
The Good;
Cordy and Wes' police double act is also a highlight
Best line:
Wes; Something's going down, something with 'The Man'
The Bad;
Pretty much the rest
Marks out of 10; 5/10
even a 5 seems generous.
and why isn't 1x03 In The Dark called The Ring??? That would make a little more sense.

sadly the next ep is no better:

saturn5 wrote: View Post
ETERNITY

The explanation that the drugs effects are only temporary is stupid... In season 4 when they need to bring Angelus out why not just give him some of this?
good question.

saturn5 wrote: View Post
Marks out of 10; 8/10
8 is very high. the whole ep struck me as only slightly better than Cordy's play.
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Old July 23 2010, 09:17 PM   #93
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews











To Shanshu In LA.
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Old July 24 2010, 08:47 AM   #94
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

ToddKent wrote: View Post
saturn5 wrote: View Post
How does Angel enter the thugs apartment when he's not invited? PTB or is the guy squatting?
That what I was wondering as well. I think Angel said he went to the talk to the guy in the hospital so maybe he somehow wrangled an invitation?
the thug wasn't in the apartment - he was in the hospital thanks to faith.

what i want to know is how angel could crash through the window into Rebecca Lowell's home in Eternity?
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Old July 24 2010, 10:17 AM   #95
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Mal wrote: View Post
ToddKent wrote: View Post
saturn5 wrote: View Post
How does Angel enter the thugs apartment when he's not invited? PTB or is the guy squatting?
That what I was wondering as well. I think Angel said he went to the talk to the guy in the hospital so maybe he somehow wrangled an invitation?
the thug wasn't in the apartment - he was in the hospital thanks to faith.

what i want to know is how angel could crash through the window into Rebecca Lowell's home in Eternity?
I thought Eternity was fantastic, really really good for all the reasons I put in my post. The thug doesn't have to actually be in his apartment to invite Angel in, he could have done it at the hospital. In Eternity Rebecca invited Angel around to her house earlier when she was at his office

TO SHANSHU IN LA
The Good;
My all time favourite moment in Angel is when he walks up to Lindsey clutching his stump, the music swells and Angel looks on him with buggerall sympathy. Such a powerful scene, you realise how much Angel loves Cordy in that moment and would fight his way to hell on her behalf. CCs acting as stricken Cordy is also great and love the doughnut scene. And THAT ending!
The Bad;
Gunn's prescence seems a bit shoe-horned in, they're obviously thinking about making him a regular. Same for David Nabbit. Kate seems to want to make Angel hang around to make a statement which is weird as she's prepared to let him just walk away the rest of the time.
Best line:
"Don't believe everything your foretold, Lindsey" (why doesn't he just kick him in the head whilst he's at it?)
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Severed hands. Voca's mask. Angel is also quite brutal with Kate. Lilah mentions a past WR&H employee who was made to eat his own liver as pennance for failing the senior partners.
Apocalypses: 4
Angel Cliches
Damsel in distress; 15,
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
In disguise; 4
DB get's his shirt off; 7
Cordy's tattoo;3
Cheap Angel;
4
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 8
Wes: 2

Fang gang knocked out: Wes by the explosion
Cordy: 9
Angel: 10
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Kills:
Cordy: 3 vamps, 1½ demons
Angel; 2 demons so 16 vamps, 12 and 1/2 demons, 3 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 1/2 a demon
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 6

Characters killed:
25
Recurring characters killed; bye-bye the Oracles which is a shame as I liked them, I didn't think they COULD be killed
4;
Total number of Angel Investigations:
3, Angel and Cordy and Wes

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 8,
Packing heat;
Wes; 2
Doyle; 1
Angel; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 2 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast
Angel: 1;Buffy

Kinky dinky:
Naked Darla in a box, bet you can't order that on Amazon!
Captain Subtext;
Know the face, different character; 2
Parking garages;
4,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 11
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla
Questions and observations;
Wes once again makes a biblical reference which Watcher's are wont to do. The promise of great things to come, Darla in the box. Interestingly you can bring a vamp back from the dead as they attempted to do in 'When she was bad', a technique often used in fanfic for bringing back Angel, souled-Spike or any of the good guys who've been vamped if they've been killed in a story. Cordy refers to 'The old me' indicating personal growth. Of course we assume the 'Vamp with a soul' is Angel but it could just as easily be season 5 Spike?
Marks out of 10; 9/10, very good ep with my all time favourite Angel scene.
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Old July 25 2010, 05:59 AM   #96
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

saturn5 wrote: View Post
FIVE BY FIVE
The Good;
All of it, brilliant episode that gives Angel it's first 10/10 story. It's my all time favorite Angel ep AND contains my nearly all time favourite Angel moment, Wes coming across the weeping Faith in Angel's arms and dropping the knife.
great ep. not sure if it's i'd agree on greatest (and certainly not a 10). but then, i'm reluctant to give my favorite hour of TV ever, anything over a 9.

saturn5 wrote: View Post
The Bad;
If you think there's anything bad in this ep, go to the doctor because you're clearly crazy
the flashback scene after angel is re-ensouled and "begs" for not-money, but the woman, is poorly executed.


saturn5 wrote: View Post
Best line:
Cordy 'Generally you don't change a guy. Scratch the surface and what do you get? More surface!'
um, no.
best line:
shut up, wesley

best comeback:
i was your watcher faith. i know the real you. even if you kill me there's just one thing i want you to remember [what's that love?]: you are a piece of shit.
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Old July 25 2010, 09:40 AM   #97
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Mal wrote: View Post
saturn5 wrote: View Post
FIVE BY FIVE
The Good;
All of it, brilliant episode that gives Angel it's first 10/10 story. It's my all time favorite Angel ep AND contains my nearly all time favourite Angel moment, Wes coming across the weeping Faith in Angel's arms and dropping the knife.
great ep. not sure if it's i'd agree on greatest (and certainly not a 10). but then, i'm reluctant to give my favorite hour of TV ever, anything over a 9.

saturn5 wrote: View Post
The Bad;
If you think there's anything bad in this ep, go to the doctor because you're clearly crazy
the flashback scene after angel is re-ensouled and "begs" for not-money, but the woman, is poorly executed.


saturn5 wrote: View Post
Best line:
Cordy 'Generally you don't change a guy. Scratch the surface and what do you get? More surface!'
um, no.
best line:
shut up, wesley

best comeback:
i was your watcher faith. i know the real you. even if you kill me there's just one thing i want you to remember [what's that love?]: you are a piece of shit.
Actually I wrote that review before I saw Orpheus and it's now my favourite with 5x5 my favourite scene, just pipping Wes cutting of Lilah's head

JUDGEMENT
The Good;
Jousting in LA, even in Tinseltown that must be a rare enough sight.
The Bad;
A fairly slow opener for a season that will eventually start firing on all cylinders
Best line:
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
The demon who sings at Caritas is 'Gorshak the Child-eater'? His pick is 'Achy breaky heart' (I'm not sure which is worse?)
Apocalypses: 4
Angel Cliches
Damsel in distress; 16, yep, she sure is
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
Angel the hero actually kills the damsel in distress' protector by accident
In disguise; 4
DB get's his shirt off; 7
Cordy's tattoo;3
Cheap Angel;
4
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 8
Wes: 2

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 9
Angel: 10
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Kills:
Cordy: 3 vamps, 1½ demons
Angel; 4 demons for Angel so 16 vamps, 16 and 1/2 demons, 3 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 1/2 a demon
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; one more vamp so 4 in all.
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 6

Characters killed:
25
Recurring characters killed;
4;
Total number of Angel Investigations:
3, Angel and Cordy and Wes

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 8,
Packing heat;
Wes; 2
Doyle; 1
Angel; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 2 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast
Angel: 1;Buffy

Kinky dinky:
Wes seems to attract the attention of a beautiful girl in a bar. The first hints of the love affair between Lindsey and Darla.
Captain Subtext;
From the beginning a very flirtatious relationship between Lorne and Angel. Gunn comments that he's seen Wes before in bed which Wes takes a lot of exception to. Cordy points out that if Angel joins a gym he'll have to shower with naked men but he says he'll always be a loner.
Know the face, different character; 2
Parking garages;
4,
Guantanamo Bay;
Angel beats up Merl and kills an innocent
Buffy characters on Angel; 11
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla
Questions and observations;
The Introduction of Lorne for the first time, no sign yet that he'll become such an important character. Pretty obvious he's inspired by Barney from Parting Gifts. Angel Investigations have been busy over the summer with at least 6 cases according the whiteboard. First appearance of Merl and first meeting of Gunn, Cordy and Wes. Wonderful to see Angel visit Faith, such a lovely touch. So what happens to the mother and child? Often in fanfic whatever goes wrong in the Buffyverse that kid turns up to set it right. When Angel meets Gunn he inquires after his health as Gunn said he should in Blind Date. Jo is played by Justina Machado who played Rico's wife in the wonderful Six Feet Under, a show that not only guest starred Michelle Tractenberg and Eric Balfour (Jesse) but at one point her characters' actress sister appears to be guest-starring on Angel (or possibly Charmed?)
Marks out of 10; 6/10, the opening and ending are probably better than the rest of the ep.
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Old July 25 2010, 10:53 AM   #98
Wereghost
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

saturn5 wrote: View Post
I thought Eternity was fantastic, really really good for all the reasons I put in my post. The thug doesn't have to actually be in his apartment to invite Angel in, he could have done it at the hospital. In Eternity Rebecca invited Angel around to her house earlier when she was at his office

TO SHANSHU IN LA
I kind of liked Eternity too.
Best line in To Shanshu In LA:
Cordy: "Typical. I hook up with the only person in history who ever came to LA to get older."
Nine out of ten for this episode. I don't know what David Greenwalt was taking, but it seems to have produced results. Angel's tradition of pulling the rug out from under everyone's feet probably began with this episode. Some fine visuals, too; that explosion looks expensive.
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Last edited by Wereghost; July 25 2010 at 01:40 PM.
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Old July 25 2010, 04:36 PM   #99
Mal
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

saturn5 wrote: View Post
SANCTUARY
The Good;
Just when you think it can't get any better, Buffy arrives and all is good with the world.
well, if this is any indication of what BTVS is like, i think i'll pass (god, is she always this annoyingly melodramatic?!?) ... although... is there a Buffy ep that serves as the backstory to Five by Five and Sanctuary?

saturn5 wrote: View Post
The Bad;
All still fantastic
i'm gonna say that the scene with the second assassin was stupid: this is strictly a hand-shake deal; not that it's necessary for you to have hands for us to do business with you; that was speciesist of me... blah, blah, slurping coffee.

the watchers-in-the-bar scene was spot on (so british!). totally made up for it.

saturn5 wrote: View Post
Best line:
NEARLY-Detective (to Kate) Everyone knows you've gone all Scully
Kate; Mulder's the believer, Scully's the skeptic
Detective; Scully's the chick, right?
I'm a detective, Kendric. See, I'm detecting.

saturn5 wrote: View Post
but the winner, one of my favourites which I use all the time is;
Buffy; "A cry for help is when you shout 'Help, help!' in a loud voice"
granted. great line.

saturn5 wrote: View Post
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
For all those afraid of needles avoid the syringe scene. Faith's daydream about killing Angel
i'd nominate Angel smacking Buffy.



i'd hit it


saturn5 wrote: View Post
Questions and observations;
this probably marks the nadir of the Buffy/Angel romance and the Kate/Angel relationship.
i really like how Angel tells Buff to stay the fuck out of his town. kind of like they should all stay the fuck out of his show

here's my question:
when Wes and Angel have the debate on whether or not to help Faith, at first it's Wes who wants to help her (she's a human being), and later it's Angel who says the same thing. Why is it suddenly all-important that Faith is human? I thought I've got you under my skin established that humans can be totally evil, while Hero showed us that there are not-evil demons. so the bottom-line question should have been: is Faith evil? to which the answer is clearly no, and so she must be helped. not cause she's human.

so how's this work?
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Old July 25 2010, 06:41 PM   #100
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

saturn5 wrote: View Post
WAR ZONE

CC and Wes rescue Angel who forgets to use his mobile phone to get himself out of the meatlocker.
you should have tried to call us on your cell phone. you probably forgot you had it.

these things hardly ever work. besides it was a lot easier and quicker to just... look, i'm the boss here. i say when we use the cell phones, and people are going to die, and i have to go




did they know during this episode that Gunn was going to be a permanent addition?

also, wesley: wtf?!?!

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Old July 26 2010, 11:08 AM   #101
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Buffy rocks! With the exception of season 4 I think each season is actually better than it's Angel equivalent. Yep the Buffy eps This Years Girl and Who are you? correspond to these eps and they're awesome, watch them and you'll understand much better what this is all about. In fact watch Buffy the series and you'll enjoy Angel so much more, it's the superior series by a nose.
If by 'hit' you mean have sex with Buffy we'll we're all right there with you

ARE YOU NOW OR EVER HAVE BEEN?
The Good;
Very good allegory of the McCarthy age and we get an idea of what Angel got up to after 'Why we fight?'.
The Bad;
According to the commentary Angel sends the money back to the bank. I wouldn't, they're a bunch of racists, I'd have given it to charity or something.
Best line:
DENVER; "No other cat but me"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Seeing Angel lynched is nasty in the extreme.
Apocalypses: 4
Angel Cliches
Damsel in distress; 16,
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
Angel doesn't save the inhabitants of the hotel, just leaves the demon to feast upon them. When he finally returns to rescue Melissa it's to let her die.
In disguise; 4
DB get's his shirt off; 7
Cordy's tattoo;3
Cheap Angel;
4
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 8
Wes: 2

Fang gang knocked out: yep, Angel
Cordy: 9
Angel: 11
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Kills:
Cordy: 3 vamps, 1½ demons
Angel; 1 demon for Angel so 16 vamps, 17 and 1/2 demons, 3 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 1/2 a demon
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; one more vamp so 4 in all.
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 6

Characters killed:
25
Recurring characters killed;
4;
Total number of Angel Investigations:
3, Angel and Cordy and Wes

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 8,
Packing heat;
Wes; 2
Doyle; 1
Angel; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 2 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast
Angel: 1;Buffy

Kinky dinky:
The starlet is obviously supplementing her income through prostitution. Nevertheless she refers to Melissa as a slut as an insult.
Captain Subtext;
The leading man is obviously gay and hiding it Rock Hudson style.
Know the face, different character; 2
Parking garages;
4,
Guantanamo Bay;
The McCarthy era is a strange one as after the fall of communism it was revealed that many of those he persecuted were indeed Soviet agents (it's an interesting paralell of George Bush/Barack Obama being pressured to release some the Guantanamo inmates only for 1 in 7 going back to terrorism) but the important point here is that we rail against all lynch-mobs and witch-hunts which are inherently evil no matter their justification, Angel season 2 of course was during the War on Terror and the point is well made.
Buffy characters on Angel; 11
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla
Questions and observations;
2nd appearance of the Hyperion which is also in Judgement and 'I fall to pieces' under a different name . Presumably Angel must be pretty rich just to be able to give the money away like that. After this we presume he must go into his hedonistic phase, henceforth to be known as 'The Manilow Era'. He does return to hotel later however as he's in the picture when the police arrest the bell-hop (who goes to the electric chair despite being innocent of the charges against him). First apprearance of Denver who'll crop up again later. In an ep about the 50s Cordy's dress seems very sixties? If this ep is 9 minutes over as the commentary says, why not Special Edition DVDs with the footage restored?
Marks out of 10; 8/10
 
 
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Old July 26 2010, 07:39 PM   #102
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

saturn5 wrote: View Post
JUDGEMENT
Wonderful to see Angel visit Faith, such a lovely touch.
agreed. it's scenes like this that make angel such a wonderful show.

even if the episode basically bores.
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Old July 26 2010, 09:10 PM   #103
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Mal wrote: View Post
well, if this is any indication of what BTVS is like, i think i'll pass (god, is she always this annoyingly melodramatic?!?) ...
Buffy comes off as far more of a bitch in her Angel appearances than on her own show. There are good in-story reasons for this, but it's unfortunate from a cross-promotion perspective.

although... is there a Buffy ep that serves as the backstory to Five by Five and Sanctuary?
Yes. The episode is called "Season 3". (The two-parter "This Year's Girl"/"Who Are You?" is the immediate setup; actually, those two together with "Five by Five"/"Sanctuary" are sort of a 4-parter, but even so you need a lot more of the Faith arc to really appreciate everything.)
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Old July 26 2010, 11:22 PM   #104
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Lindley wrote: View Post
Mal wrote: View Post
well, if this is any indication of what BTVS is like, i think i'll pass (god, is she always this annoyingly melodramatic?!?) ...
Buffy comes off as far more of a bitch in her Angel appearances than on her own show. There are good in-story reasons for this, but it's unfortunate from a cross-promotion perspective.
well, i suppose they were trying to get Buffy viewers to watch Angel, not the other way around. still, TPTB made the same mistake with Emissary Part 1. Sisko's scene with Picard does not go well at all...

Lindley wrote: View Post
although... is there a Buffy ep that serves as the backstory to Five by Five and Sanctuary?
Yes. The episode is called "Season 3". (The two-parter "This Year's Girl"/"Who Are You?" is the immediate setup; actually, those two together with "Five by Five"/"Sanctuary" are sort of a 4-parter, but even so you need a lot more of the Faith arc to really appreciate everything.)
season 3
how does buffy stack up with firefly, or angel, or hell - even dr. horrible?

i'll admit, i can't stand SMG. I Know What You Did Last Summer was bad enough, but i basically vowed never to watch her again after Cruel Intentions (the movie itself wasn't bad, but she was grating). her appearances in Angel just seems to confirm all that.
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Old July 27 2010, 03:40 AM   #105
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Buffy is clearly written by a less experienced Joss than Firefly, but the same kind of fun is present in the dialog of both. Buffy is less consistent in quality than Angel, but at times much better (and at times much worse). The musical episode compares well to Dr. Horrible, although the latter was again, clearly the result of more experience.

It's well worth seeing, and season 2 and 3 compare favorably against anything else Joss has done. Season 1 is a bit on the cheesy side----but once you accept that, it's not the bad kind of cheesy. Season 4 weakens a bit, but season 5 recovers nicely. Season 6 and 7 are a bit weaker but both have moments of brilliance.

Now, most people will say that Buffy herself is one of the less interesting characters on Buffy the Vampire Slayer. But it's an ensemble show, so that's okay.

I recently found some fan-made Buffy and Angel trailers on Youtube which are really *very* well-done....
Angel Season 1
Angel Season 2

Buffy season 1
Buffy season 2
Buffy season 3
Buffy season 4
Buffy season 5
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Last edited by Lindley; July 27 2010 at 04:46 AM.
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