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View Poll Results: Grading
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Old July 21 2010, 10:38 PM   #211
Daedalus12
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

I don't know if this was true or not but some people online have claimed that they heard the sound of totem falling on the desk right after the screen went to pitch black during the ending? Can anyone confirm this?
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Old July 21 2010, 11:03 PM   #212
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

All I heard was a strangled cry of frustration from a woman in the audience, and then the rest of us tittering in sympathy with her reaction.
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Old July 21 2010, 11:07 PM   #213
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

^ I assume it would take a really stoic crowd in the theater to not drown out the subtle clattering sound with cries of frustration.

I'll be listening for it in the second viewing.
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Old July 22 2010, 12:20 AM   #214
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

T'Baio wrote: View Post
I think Inception might have the same "problem" that Blade Runner has. Although, knowing how much a fan of Blade Runner Nolan is, perhaps it's on purpose.

Blade Runner is ostensibly about loss of humanity, and that Roy Batty, a replicant, can feel and love life more than a human. But if the "twist" of it all is that Deckerd is a replicant himself, it kind of robs the movie of thematic weight for a satirically dark twist.
I've never really bought into that criticism of the unicorn cut of Blade Runner. Humans are still willing to enslave Replicants, even to the point of designing a Replicant to kill Replicants who strive for freedom, setting Deckard up as a Blade Runner because they have such a low opinion of Replicants' capacity for free will, agency, and love.

The movie doesn't need a human viewpoint character to show that humans can be unfeeling scum (although there is Gaff), because we already know that humans can be and often are unfeeling scum.

At most it undermines Deckard's feelings for Rachel, because if he's a Replicant and knows he's a Replicant his choice to flee with her instantly becomes no great moral decision. But so what? The movie's about Deckard's awakening and Batty's mercy, and it doesn't matter whether they're technically human or not.

Now that was a long and possibly unnecessary segue to get to the point that I agree with you on one level--that Inception's flaws are much the same as Blade Runner. Blade Runner's premise is full of holes. The most obvious is "What kind of dumbass genetic engineer gives superstrength to a sexbot? Or even the capacity for intelligence?" This is followed by "Why do the Replicants not have obvious marks to distinguish them from humans?" "Wouldn't something superhumanly strong already be easily distinguishible from a human without a need for an empathy test?" (Cf. Battlestar Galactica.) "Would a slightly stronger human be more useful in, say, an unobtainium mine than a giant piece of actual mining equipment?"

Inception is very similar to that, asking that belief be suspended at some really questionable things. The biggest example, I repeat, is the years of experiential memory formed in a few seconds, which I am convinced is not biologically possible because of little-known restraints like caloric requirements for mental activity, waste heat, and the boiling point of water. Yet, like Blade Runner, Inception has the "thematic weight" of which you speak to forgive its flaws.

David cgc wrote:
All I heard was a strangled cry of frustration from a woman in the audience, and then the rest of us tittering in sympathy with her reaction.
If this is so, I couldn't hear it and I doubt anyone else could over my involuntary, cruel laughter.
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Old July 22 2010, 12:24 AM   #215
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

A note about Blade Runner: The thematic incongruity can basically be placed at the fact that the screenwriter Hampton did not intend for Deckard to be a replicant, but the director Scott did. I don't think the same cross purpose intent is on display here with Inception - it seems a far more thematically confident movie - but damned if I'd know for sure.
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Old July 22 2010, 12:27 AM   #216
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Well all gigledish at the end.

I'm sorry but this has to be the most over-hyped movie in a very long time, it's almost as bad as Avatar.

I knew they were going to do that ending before seeing the movie, it wasn't shocking, it was clearly the ending that was going to happen. Halfway through the film I thought because he touched his wife's todum that it no longer works and everything was a dream.

It was a great made movie, but it wasn't "smart", it was just smarter than the crap that is normally released. I heard all these stupid idiot college aged students talking about the film after it ended. Everyone enjoyed it, but no one understood it! It was pretty easy to follow until the last few minutes which you can take to mean a few different things. One dumb (fake) blonde girl went "The movie was soooooo great! I'll have to see it again because I didn't understand it!".

How can you love a movie you don't understand?
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Old July 22 2010, 01:52 AM   #217
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

bigdaddy wrote: View Post
Well all gigledish at the end.

I'm sorry but this has to be the most over-hyped movie in a very long time, it's almost as bad as Avatar.

I knew they were going to do that ending before seeing the movie, it wasn't shocking, it was clearly the ending that was going to happen. Halfway through the film I thought because he touched his wife's todum that it no longer works and everything was a dream.

It was a great made movie, but it wasn't "smart", it was just smarter than the crap that is normally released. I heard all these stupid idiot college aged students talking about the film after it ended. Everyone enjoyed it, but no one understood it! It was pretty easy to follow until the last few minutes which you can take to mean a few different things. One dumb (fake) blonde girl went "The movie was soooooo great! I'll have to see it again because I didn't understand it!".

How can you love a movie you don't understand?
I kind of agree. I enjoyed it, but I think it's overrated. It didn't really elicit an emotional response from me and I didn't find it all that compelling. It was just interesting.
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Old July 22 2010, 02:25 AM   #218
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Earlier in the movie they purposely showed the top spin out. You clearly see the wobble before it stops.

Now, in the end right before the cut. You see 2 to 3 seconds of the same top wobbling. If you put those scenes side by side, it's the same wobble.

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Old July 22 2010, 08:28 AM   #219
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

I really liked the film but was really disappointed as well.

Page was pretty awful. She was kind of snappy in Juno, but in every other role, she has a blank look on her face. Here, she seemed to wear it even while spouting dialogue the actress herself could not comprehend. And WTF, Caine pulls her out of class, and suddenly she's some great architect who sucks worse than I ever did at creating mazes. She becomes the exposition character, who gets and gives all the exposition, and her blandness - how one-dimensional her character was- nearly sunk the film.

The big snow scene made me feel like I was watching G.I. Joe the movie (remember the snow scene at the beginning of the animated film? That was this whole scene). And what a cheat using the bland-looking ventilation system instead of seeing the maze. Made me feel that Page's character was even more useless to the whole film.

This movie proceeds with the idea that every image of a dream must mean something. I would agree that most images in a dream do, but not all. There's always something out of whack.
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Old July 22 2010, 09:51 AM   #220
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Been waiting for this for months, and absolutely loved it. Planning on seeing again. Best film so far this year.
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Old July 22 2010, 12:51 PM   #221
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
I really liked the film but was really disappointed as well.

Page was pretty awful. She was kind of snappy in Juno, but in every other role, she has a blank look on her face. Here, she seemed to wear it even while spouting dialogue the actress herself could not comprehend. And WTF, Caine pulls her out of class, and suddenly she's some great architect who sucks worse than I ever did at creating mazes. She becomes the exposition character, who gets and gives all the exposition, and her blandness - how one-dimensional her character was- nearly sunk the film.

The big snow scene made me feel like I was watching G.I. Joe the movie (remember the snow scene at the beginning of the animated film? That was this whole scene). And what a cheat using the bland-looking ventilation system instead of seeing the maze. Made me feel that Page's character was even more useless to the whole film.

This movie proceeds with the idea that every image of a dream must mean something. I would agree that most images in a dream do, but not all. There's always something out of whack.
Interesting. I thought Ellen Page stood out as fantastic, actually, surprisingly able to hold her own, and even shine, among the likes of DiCaprio, Caine, Watanabe, and Murphy. She's turning out to be a very good actor, I'm happy to say, able to do hip teenage comedy as well as realistic drama. She didn't have a big role, but her character had a resonance with me, and given how few lines the person had, that's a testament to Ellen Page's subtle acting.

In a way, I feel Nolan finally got the casting of his female right. In Prestige, everything was great, except Scarlett Johansen (sp?) was like a black hole, unable to do anything with the underwritten role. In Batman Begins, Katie Holmes was unconvincing. But now, Page shows how one can make a relatively small role work very well.

One-dimensional? Not at all. I believed completely that she was, all at once, brilliant, naive, inexperienced, insecure, confident, good with people, frightened, in over her head, the smartest person in the room...there were many levels, often contradictory, just like in a real person. it was a very subtle, and very complex, character to play interestingly, and she managed it, and made it look easy.

You talk of her "blank" expression - but have you ever really looked at people when they talk? Most people don't make any expression when they speak. It's all in the eyes, and the voice, and the body language. The face actually does very, very little. If you want to see a really mediocre actor, look for someone with a lot of different facial expressions.
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Old July 22 2010, 01:16 PM   #222
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

I did find it funny that after all the initial talk of mazes we never actually saw anything like that in the movie. Unless you could that one set of stairs that ends nowhere.
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Old July 22 2010, 01:32 PM   #223
Ubik
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Mr Light wrote: View Post
I did find it funny that after all the initial talk of mazes we never actually saw anything like that in the movie. Unless you could that one set of stairs that ends nowhere.
I believe you're being too literal. It's very strongly implied that to build ANY kind of architecture within someone's mind is very, very difficult (not like building in the real world - otherwise you could just hire a real architect.) We don't know what sort of obstacles a "subconscious architect" is acting against when they design - maybe it's extremely difficult just to keep the setting sane and orderly (fighting against the natural irrationality of the mind). So, the kind of mind needed to build such settings within the mind probably needs to be quick enough, subtle enough, clever enough, mathematically and geometrically inclined enough, to be able to draw a complicated maze in one minute. It sounds very reasonable to me.
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Old July 22 2010, 11:17 PM   #224
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Page probably got the job because of working with Cillian Murphy in the indie suspense movie Peacock. That had a good performance from Page. Page couldn't sell Ariadne to me. Personally, I think it's because the role was crap: Receive exposition on the rules from DiCaprio, prod DiCaprio to give exposition on his traumas, give exposition on how to surmount the obstacle posed by Murphy's dream "death," then tell DiCaprio what he had to do re Cotillard. She doesn't actually do anything, except come back. Which since it was predicted was kind of lame. Sarah Bernhardt couldn't have made this exposition fairy into a real person.
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Old July 23 2010, 12:44 AM   #225
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Ariadne is the primary reason why I might consider everything in the movie a dream. Her incites are just a little hard to accept as those of an outside, independent observer. She just doesn't come across as real, and I think that has more to do with the writing than the actress.
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