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Old July 19 2010, 04:52 AM   #91
davejames
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

I don't know, maybe I'm just a fan of dark, eerie endings, but to me the suggestion seemed to be pretty strong that Cobb was still dreaming. The top was spinning for an unnaturally long time, and unlike others I saw no sign of it beginning to topple.

Plus the way everyone awoke so easily on the plane, and Cobb sailed through customs... and then he comes home to find his kids waiting for him and playing in the very same place...

It all just seemed a little too smooth and easy for him (especially considering how deep he was, and how long he had been gone), and after I saw the top at the end, I realized why.
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Old July 19 2010, 05:12 AM   #92
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
Gotta say, DiCaprio's character is a sharp dresser.
They all were, really. Except Hardy's character.


And Gordon-Levitt was hawt.
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Old July 19 2010, 05:48 AM   #93
Trekker4747
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

davejames wrote: View Post
I don't know, maybe I'm just a fan of dark, eerie endings, but to me the suggestion seemed to be pretty strong that Cobb was still dreaming. The top was spinning for an unnaturally long time, and unlike others I saw no sign of it beginning to topple.

Plus the way everyone awoke so easily on the plane, and Cobb sailed through customs... and then he comes home to find his kids waiting for him and playing in the very same place...

It all just seemed a little too smooth and easy for him (especially considering how deep he was, and how long he had been gone), and after I saw the top at the end, I realized why.
It was begining to topple. Yes it wobbled for an un-naturally long time but at the end it was certainly begining to falter. It would've been nice, however, if they had just shown us the damn thing toppling.
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Old July 19 2010, 05:51 AM   #94
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

WARNING : I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO MASK POSSIBLE SPOILERS.

Hi. I joined just to discuss this movie.

The audience gasped at the end of the screening I attended.





He had to be dreaming at the end, and IMO this was given away an hour previous. When Cobb's wife commits suicide, she's across the street sitting on a different building and Leo's saying "come step back inside" like she's just supposed to fly over to him ... and he doesn't need to shout for her to hear him across the street, and any investigator would know she didn't jump from the trashed room across the street from her. This was a clear and deliberate giveaway, I hope, since it could only make sense within a dream. If the director intended that all to make sense as a non-dream reality, then it's total garbage. So too several other things, but that was the most obvious.

At the end the director made sure to show the top spinning on and on despite almost toppling earlier when it hits a groove in the wooden tabletop. Plus no explanation how Cobb got out of that last dream, the fact that he was polluting other people's dreams with his subconscious which isn't supposed to happen right? His wife always shows up, plus when the girl architect tells him about the air vent shortcut into the snow fortress, suddenly the bad guys turn around and the Aussie guy says "they're turning your way, almost as if they know something."

These and other things happen because it's all Cobb dreaming and his wife was right about him never having gone back to the reality layer. Grandpa gives his best student to an obsessed criminal doing very dangerous things, etc. Too convenient. Ironically, Cobb was the one with the idea stuck in his head - that he was in the real world when he wasn't.

Thoughts ??

One other opinion - it seems to me the team can't be shot in the dreams, and they almost act as if they know it 'cuz in the chase sequences they'd have been Swiss cheese and didn't seem to try too hard not to get shot. Only the Japanese guy got shot 'cuz he doesn't know any better? Nothing else harms them - crashes, tsunamis, etc, so why would imaginary bullets? Or was this the usual movie BS where one cowboy shoots 10 indians with every bullet, but never gets shot themselves?

Thanks.

EDIT - why'd the wife put the totem in the safe? People are supposed to have their own totems, untouched by others. Was it cobb's all along, or did he take it from her? A top is hardly a "deep dark secret" ... unless it has something to do with Cobb existing in her dreams as a memory? That weirdness hasn't been touched on, and I doubt it would've gotten so much screen time if it were meaningless.

Last edited by Huh?; July 19 2010 at 08:41 AM.
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Old July 19 2010, 06:43 AM   #95
Too Much Fun
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Mr Light wrote: View Post
Excellent movie! Have a question though.

How much control of the world did they have? Kitty Pryde was altering the world in the test scenario but Leo said that if you do that they'll realize it's a dream. So I took that to mean that once she pre-creates the scenario and the target is in the world you can't change it or he'll wake up.

But they had the guy sedated and told him it was a dream. So couldn't they have altered things then?

The point where they're shooting in the warehouse and Cobra Commander can't hit the guy then Shinzon comes along with a grenade launcher and says think bigger... was that supposed to be him imagining a larger weapon? Or did he literally just grab that weapon from their pre-existing stash?

And at the end when they're in limbo, they earlier said that Leo and the wife were gods there and created reality to their liking. So why couldn't Leo or Kitty alter it to whatever they wanted it to be?

And the ending... were we supposed to be left to our interpretation whether the top falls or not? It looked like it was wobbling at the end, and before in the dream it never wobbled. Because if that WAS still the dream, then what happened? Leo finds Old Man Ra'sh Al Ghul in limbo, then thinks he escapes but is just in a further dream construct? And he never woke up on the plane and we never saw a real world resolution to the caper?
I just want to say I find it adorable how you refer to the actors as characters they played in other movies. I hate being kinda the lone voice of dissent about this movie. It seems most people are either praising it or analyzing it, but no one's criticizing it. I didn't hate it, but I do think there's a lot wrong with it that nobody seems to acknowledge or notice. Mostly I wish there were more creative action sequences (to go with the zero gravity one, which did rule) and more interesting dialog, acting, and character development.

I did neglect to mention in my previous post that I really dug the emotional arc of Leo's character. I liked how his issues with his wife were handled, and the scene where he talks about letting go of her was one of the few parts I found really poignant and could relate to (the scene where Cillian's character opened the safe was touching too). The movie could have used more scenes like those. I wish I could be on board with everyone else, because it's nice to share everyone's enthusiasm about something.

When it comes to this movie, I can only do that about the ending. I'm pretty damn sure the top never stopped spinning, and like so many others have reported, everyone in the theatre I was in let out a collective "OHHHHHHHH" when they realized what that implied, and I was right there with them. I can't help but think you people insisting it was about to topple are just talking wishful thinking. I wanted it to topple so bad. I was practically holding my breath/at the edge of my seat waiting for it to show the slightest sign it might topple (and I think everyone around me was too) and the reason everyone gasped was because it clearly didn't. Coolest ambiguous ending since "Before Sunset" .
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Old July 19 2010, 08:23 AM   #96
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Uhh, no. That top was totally about to topple right when they cut away. It was spinning good for a long time and you could see the wobble, the change in the sound of it spinning, and boom, cut to credits.

I think he did it just to keep you guessing.
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Old July 19 2010, 09:07 AM   #97
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

I enjoyed it, would probably give it an A.

My theory is that everything is a dream and that some of the flashbacks are real. Like moments at the beach or with his wife. I think the whole thing was an elaborately constructed inception for the benefit of Cobb, who is forever stuck in limbo, in order for him to believe that he was returned to the real world to go on living with his kids. The biggest problem with being stuck in this world is that you know it's fake. So if you can really plant ideas, wouldn't it be ideal for Cobb, if he were really stuck in limbo, to implant ideas to make one of the dream layers in to a reality layer?

Sort of how the main character in Memento constructs a new killer to go after, Cobb may have spent enough time in this limbo to slowly construct this elaborate convolution of dreams in which to convince himself he was back in the real world. Basically performing inception on himself to alter each iteration. So in a previous iteration he may have implanted the idea of the children, but not the details so he couldn't accept it, so he creates another world that gives him a reason for not remembering and a method for him to be reunited with them.

I just thought the real world had too many dream elements in them. The passage of time, the sudden travel to far away locations, jumping from 2nd story balconies with little effect, the almost magical vague machine to get them in the dream state where some kind of cable is attached but you never see a needle or blood, ect. In fact, as I was watching the movie I wondered if the real Cobb was some skinny dweeb who created an idealized Leo DiCaprio version of himself, and then populated his world with actors from some of his favorite movies like The Dark Knight, XMen, and Insurrection. (Ok, I know that last one is stretching it.) I also expected the movie to end in a much realer world where extraction is done on a more complicated device that required more than just a vague cable to be attached to your wrist.
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Old July 19 2010, 10:24 AM   #98
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Huh? wrote: View Post

He had to be dreaming at the end, and IMO this was given away an hour previous. When Cobb's wife commits suicide, she's across the street sitting on a different building and Leo's saying "come step back inside" like she's just supposed to fly over to him ... and he doesn't need to shout for her to hear him across the street, and any investigator would know she didn't jump from the trashed room across the street from her.
I think it was simply meant to be a representation of how he couldn't reach her, which is also why that room (from what we could see of it) was the same as the room Leo was in.

Having said that, at the end, the Caine Character is wearing the same clothes as in Paris which I took as a possible sign as Paris.

More generally, while I found this a well-made and complex film it simply didn't engage me on a emotional level and I left the cinema thinking "so what?".
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Old July 19 2010, 02:05 PM   #99
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

SPOILERS: I'm sure when people re-examine it there may be things that can be interpreted as clues but I also think DiCaprio dreamed the whole thing. Some of the early parts of the movie made little sense and his wife refers to them as mysterious goons from shadowy organisations so it may be that the strange vagueness of the early scenes was deliberate. The fact that the spinning widget was his wife's and not his is a clue for me, although it can be interpreted any way. If his wife was French and her parents were French and English, his children could have dual nationality so it seems strange that they had to be stuck in the USA forever.

It was hugely entertaining. I wish the makers of the modern Mission Impossible movies could have produced something with more of a vibe like this movie.
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Old July 19 2010, 03:09 PM   #100
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

To Huh?'s questions:

I agree with the other poster who said that Mal was across the way from Cobb in the window of the hotel to show their separation and to show that Cobb couldn't get to her. It could be a U-shaped building where she just walked around the ledge to sit and wait for him and to have a face to face conversation.

The part of the audience I was with all seemed to indicate that they beleived the top was starting to fall at the end. But I do think it was a little ambiguous.

Cobb and Saito get out of limbo the same way Cobb and Mal did. They shoot themselves with the gun like how Mal and Cobb killed themselves with the train.

As for Mal being in many of the dream levels...I don't quite remember how each of the people work in in terms of whose brain hosts the world, how the architect's plans get in there, who can control stuff while they are in, but it seems that throughout most of the movie no matter who is hosting the dream, Cobb's wife or kids can show up and affect the "stability" of the dream.

As for the air vents, and the arctic troops changing focus, I think this is just like any of the dreams where the "projections" in the dream come to evict the intruders. At some point the intruders cause enough "strangeness" that the projections can identify them. Arthur and Ariadne weren't doing anything but sitting in the hotel lobby, yet the projections kept looking at them.

As for the heroes not getting shot, I think it was more a question of skill and preparation (and a little bit of just being the heroes) that keep them from getting shot. Much like in the Matrix, knowing you are in a dream is powerful, you can bend the rules. From the very start (in Saito's first dream) Cobb is totally kicking ass...I think it just a thing about being in the dream being able to choose victory like being able to bend the world on itself.

As for Mal keeping the totem/top in the safe, I think the point was that she didn't want to believe that the limbo world wasn't real, she didn't want to go back to reality, so she had locked it away. Cobb realized this when he found the safe.

Just my thoughts on those questions.

I would like to see it all again to get second impressions.

Edit: I think Cobb took up his wife's totem because of his guilt. Also, the Mal that tells Cobb that his world of "shadowy figures" pursuing him is the Mal of his subconscious, so she would have access to his memories. If an "objectively" real Mal said it, it would be evidence that she is right, but that was just Cobb's impression of his wife's opinions/beliefs talking.

Last edited by Ometiklan; July 19 2010 at 03:13 PM. Reason: To add a thought.
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Old July 19 2010, 03:24 PM   #101
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Good analysis - there is enough to support either theory. I'm glad it kept spinning at the end and that it had just started to wobble to keep the debate going, although it's ultimately meaningless if the whole thing is a dream since he uses it successfully at several earlier points in the movie (i.e. because he's using his wife's object and therefore it's part of his delusion in any event).
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Old July 19 2010, 03:44 PM   #102
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Chud.com has been doing a lot of coverage of Inception for the last couple of weeks. I didn't read any of it until last night cause I didn't want any spoilers. Anyway, Devin (who I normally dislike because he hates on many things for no real reason) put together a final article commenting on the meaning of Inception this morning. Here is the link:
http://chud.com/articles/articles/24...ION/Page1.html

I think that Devin is right that the entire movie, every frame, is a dream is a stronger argument than just "he didn't wake up at the end". I also like the idea that the whole thing is a metaphor/whatever you want to call it for movie making and that a catharsis in a movie/book/other media is just as good as a "real" catharsis is a fun point of view. And this helps make a little more sense what I thought were a couple of very pointed lines - when Cobb (diCaprio) says "no, I believe that a positive emotion resonates stronger than a negative emotion" and his other couple of lines about catharsis. Again, i will want to see the movie again before I will really come to my decision on what the movie says, but it has all been a great ride.
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Old July 19 2010, 04:41 PM   #103
davejames
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Capt. Vulcan wrote: View Post
I enjoyed it, would probably give it an A.

My theory is that everything is a dream and that some of the flashbacks are real. Like moments at the beach or with his wife. I think the whole thing was an elaborately constructed inception for the benefit of Cobb, who is forever stuck in limbo, in order for him to believe that he was returned to the real world to go on living with his kids. The biggest problem with being stuck in this world is that you know it's fake. So if you can really plant ideas, wouldn't it be ideal for Cobb, if he were really stuck in limbo, to implant ideas to make one of the dream layers in to a reality layer?
Perhaps, but I'm inclined to think the others made it back ok, and it was just Cobb who was still dreaming.
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Old July 19 2010, 04:43 PM   #104
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Inception trailer spoof funny!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrYPJ4Yc31g
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Old July 19 2010, 04:47 PM   #105
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

I saw it on Friday. I rate it 'above average,' about on a par with The Prestige.

It was a good movie, but in a way, its greatest strength was also its greatest weakness.

The premise was so unusual and original that Nolan had to devote a lot of screen time to big gobs of exposition. Too much time, IMO. And there's only so much excitement you can wring out of talking heads.

Now, that said--all of that set-up certainly did pay off when the heist began and the story really started rolling. So I left the theatre more than satisfied. But I still couldn't rate it "Excellent".

My fellow moviegoers seemed to enjoy it at least as much as I did. The chatter I heard afterward was all positive. I heard one guy say: "That was the most confusing movie ever--but also the greatest."

Even more amusingly, I heard another guy say: "Now, the real question is: are we really here, in this washroom? Or are we still watching the movie?"
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