Time for a black or Latino Spider-Man

[od0_ital]

DarKush wrote:

---

... I am disappointed that a lot of the black superhero/comic characters that have received movies over the last 20 years have been original creations or not tied to original comic book characters. You've had Meteor Man, Blankman, Catwoman, and Hancock in that vein. Only Blade, Spawn, and Steel have been derived from source material....

Dude, ya really think Catwoman was original?

The idea of multiple "catwomen" goes back to the '60s Batman series, where three different actresses - Julie Newmar, Lee Meriwether & Eartha Kitt - played the role of Catwoman!

[DarKush]

^
Catwoman was original in the sense that the movie Catwoman was not Selina Kyle, but a totally new character, Patience Price. On the old Batman TV series, all the women playing Catwoman were considered, to my knowledge, Selina Kyle. That TV show, and I believe at least one comic-maybe one of the Frank Miller comics-portrayed a black Kyle, but the movie chose to go in another direction.

The larger point I was trying to make was that the comic companies/movie studios aren't mining the non-white characters they have, that are already established, and just as often as not the films getting made involve totally new creations. I'm not completely opposed to that, but I think it would be nice to build on established black and other non-white characters so that it can lead to more support for their past stories (more published collections), more encouragement to use or continue to use them in current storylines, more non-white characters headlining books, support for new non-white characters, more toys, video games, etc. With a wholly original character, I haven't seen much of that kind of marketing where black characters are concerned. I don't think there were any Hancock action figures despite that movie's popularity.

[Hermiod]

^We really shouldn't use the Batman TV show as an example. They just shoved people who were popular at the time in to any role that was available. That's why we got a guy who refused to shave off his moustache as the Joker too.

[od0_ital]

DarKush wrote:

---

^
Catwoman was original in the sense that the movie Catwoman was not Selina Kyle, but a totally new character, Patience Price. On the old Batman TV series, all the women playing Catwoman were considered, to my knowledge, Selina Kyle....

Just goin' by IMDB.com on this, but the Lee Meriwether Catwoman used the regular name of Kitka (which went with her cover as a Russian, of course), while Julie Newmar's Catwoman used the name Minerva Mathews.

And do ya really think Eartha Kitt, a short black woman, was supposed to be the same character previously portrayed by tall white women?

... I don't think there were any Hancock action figures despite that movie's popularity.

I don't think Hancock was really all that "kid friendly," thus, no action figures. Would his accessories have included empty liquor bottles and an Asian's head up his own ass, human centipede-style?

Hermiod wrote:

---

^We really shouldn't use the Batman TV show as an example. They just shoved people who were popular at the time in to any role that was available. That's why we got a guy who refused to shave off his moustache as the Joker too.

From what I've read, the folks "shoved" into roles wanted to be on the series because of its popularity at the time.

And Cesar Romera wasn't a bad Joker at all...too bad the blu ray has such a great picture quality, though. Ya can see his mustache! I never even noticed as a kid...

[Aragorn]

StarTrek1701 wrote:

---

Oh and we'll most probably see Al Sharpton blowing his top off if we get a Chinese 'Blade' or Caucasian 'Uhura'.

Only if there's a camera nearby.

[DarKush]

Odo,

From my recollection there was never anything on the show that contradicted the idea that the various Catwomen were supposed to be different characters. They just appeared as Catwoman, without a reference to them being different characters, from what I recall, but I haven't seen the old Adam West show in years. In any event, that's beside the point. Was the character Halle Berry played Selina Kyle? And isn't Selina Kyle the most recognizable person who has been Catwoman?

No, she wasn't, and a lot of the comic book inspired black characters who have gotten movies over the last 20 years were not from actual comics, which I thought was interesting, and a sign that the comic book companies are not doing enough to develop these characters into motion picture properties.

As for Hancock, I'm not advocating them making Hancock action figures. I didn't like the film. But the point I'm making is that going with established characters might lead to more cross promotion and the making of toys, games, etc. It's harder to do that with original characters, unless you've got a big marketing machine behind you. But even new movie properties like Prince of Persia can reference games and graphic novels, and have something of a fan base because of that instead of manufacturing something whole cloth.

[od0_ital]

DarKush wrote:

---

From my recollection there was never anything on the show that contradicted the idea that the various Catwomen were supposed to be different characters.

Aside from appearances, costumes, accents, aliases & that Batman discovered the identity of at least one of 'em, right?

They just appeared as Catwoman, without a reference to them being different characters, from what I recall, but I haven't seen the old Adam West show in years.

Neither have I, really wish it would come out on DVD...

In any event, that's beside the point.

No, its exactly the point - ya were tryin' to say Catwoman was an original film when it wasn't, and I was pointin' out that the precedent was set by the Batman franchise forty years ago for there to be different Catwomen.

Was the character Halle Berry played Selina Kyle?

No, but a photo of Michelle Pfieffer as Selina Kyle/Catwoman was used when the crazy cat lady was explainin' what had happened to Patience.

And isn't Selina Kyle the most recognizable person who has been Catwoman?

I'd say anyone in skin tight leather usin' a whip as a tail would be recognizable as Catwoman.

No, she wasn't, and a lot of the comic book inspired black characters who have gotten movies over the last 20 years were not from actual comics, which I thought was interesting, and a sign that the comic book companies are not doing enough to develop these characters into motion picture properties.

Samuel Jackson's contract with Marvel will give him a Nick Fury film. Don Cheadle has a multi-film contract with Marvel to continue the role of Rhodey/War Machine.

Yeah, ya can point a finger at the last couple of decades and complain about how much it sucks for minorities in superhero films, if ya want to do that. Knock yourself out.

Or, ya could look at what's goin' on now, at least for the Marvel universe, and see that things are changin'.

As for Hancock, I'm not advocating them making Hancock action figures. I didn't like the film. But the point I'm making is that going with established characters might lead to more cross promotion and the making of toys, games, etc. It's harder to do that with original characters, unless you've got a big marketing machine behind you. But even new movie properties like Prince of Persia can reference games and graphic novels, and have something of a fan base because of that instead of manufacturing something whole cloth.

Ya know the Prince of Persia is bein' played by a white guy, right?

[A beaker full of death]

Gaith wrote:

---

io9 thinks so, and while I don't agree with all the points of their "rant" (while the military does have a sorry record dealing with African-Americans, a black Captain America would have been pretty awkward, historically speaking, and Will Smith is too old for the part anyway), I'm in favor of giving it a try with Spider-Man. Why not?

Here's one sort of person who shouldn't be cast: a Brit or other non-American-raised kid. Just say no!

I am so tired of this sort of racist crap...

[A beaker full of death]

Hermiod wrote:

---

^We really shouldn't use the Batman TV show as an example. They just shoved people who were popular at the time in to any role that was available. That's why we got a guy who refused to shave off his moustache as the Joker too.

As the best damn joker yet!
And Gorshin as the Riddler...
these guys defined those parts!
You think it was coincidence that they worked so well?

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

Spider-Man is one of the few heroes who I really wouldn't mind if they cast a different race. Peter Parker is just a guy. I'm not attached to any specific look for him. Superman might look odd with a different skin-tone. It doesn't really matter with Superman. Getting the attitude of Peter Parker is more important.

[Broccoli]

A beaker full of death wrote:

---

As the best damn joker yet!
And Gorshin as the Riddler...
these guys defined those parts!
You think it was coincidence that they worked so well?

For sitcom villains, they worked well.

[DarKush]

What I am saying and have said since my initial post is the Halle Berry character is original. And her Catwoman bears little to no resemblance to the Selina Kyle character. How many times do I have to repeat that?

The Halle film is a little unique in terms of using a familiar name, the name Catwoman isn't made up for the film, but the Patience Price character is, which pretty much renders naming it Catwoman moot, since a lot of people associate the character with Selina Kyle. She is a new character and her Catwoman a new heroine. The Patience Price character with some tweaks could've just as easily been turned into Vixen. I mean, now that the comic book version sort of looks like Halle and is a model, the Catwoman film might've worked better as a Vixen film.

So I think Catwoman, despite the familiar name, is part of a pattern of making superhero movies, with black main characters, outside of established black comic book characters. There was no Patience Price in comic books before Halle's Catwoman, and to my knowledge there was no PP after the film came out, except for the likely comic book adaptation.

As for the old show, was it ever portrayed that Batman called the Catwomen by their real names or actually went out to discover their identities? I don't think he ever did that.

Prince of Persia example was not about ethnicity, it was about cross marketing. And using wholly original characters might make it harder to cross market material, or build on stuff already created.

Sometimes I would like to see more blacks and other non-white characters actually headline comic book films and not just be sidekicks, comic relief, etc. If you think that's complaining,that's your right. But even you can't deny the dearth of non-white leads for superhero films, despite a decent number of non-white superheroes at both major comic book companies, during this comic book movie boom. If you think I'm 'complaining' for pointing that out, that's your right. But it doesn't change the fact, nor does it do nothing to address some concerns that I and others share about this issue. I would like to see movies in which kids who are not white males can see people who look like them saving the world sometimes too.

I hope the SHIELD film gets made but there are many fanboys, generally white I'm assuming, who are probably still griping about Sam Jackson being Fury. Just like there is some grumbling about Idris Elba in the Thor film. Though I'm got a good suspicion that Scarlett Johannsen will be playing just as major a role as Fury in a SHIELD film, but beggars can't be choosy. And Don Cheadle has already stated that War Machine will not be getting a solo deal or his own series. Regarding other black heroes: Luke Cage is in development hell, there appear to be no plans to resurrect Blade, and I've heard grumbles about Black Panther, but nothing definite. So how exactly is that change at Marvel? Don't know if Falcon will be in the Captain America movies, Fury will be in the first, and I'm assuming Falcon will probably be in the second. So, outside of Fury (a white character made black), there's one potentially definite film with a black lead since Blade Trinity. That's a lot of change.

[Nerys Myk]

Pretty sure "Kitka" and "Minerva" were fake names and not presented as Catwomans actual identity.

"White" and "Persian" are not mutually exclusive.

Romero was the weakest bit of casting of the four main Batman villians. Gorshin, Meredith and Newmar were about as close to perfect as you can get.

IIRC, Spawn, Steel and War-Machine are all black comic book heroes who have made the leap from comics to the big screen more or less intact. (YMMV)

[Broccoli]

Boy...I can't wait until The Last Airbender gets released...

[C.E. Evans]

Broccoli wrote:

---

Boy...I can't wait until The Last Airbender gets released...

Organized boycotts are already underway, apparently.

Race is always a very sensitive issue, especially in regards to Hollywood, which rarely gets it "right" depending on who you ask--why is a person of this ethnicity cast for a certain role when it "should" be a person of that ethnicity.

In the case of The Last Airbender, many feel that an Asian actor should have been cast in the lead role because of the character's similiarity to a Shaolin Monk, even though the movie takes place on a different world than ours. I can understand and even sympathize with the frustration, but I can also understand the Hollywood mentality too and it isn't always about casting the "right" person for the role as it is about casting the person directors and producers feel best completes their particular vision (for good or for ill)...