RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,129
Posts: 5,401,409
Members: 24,745
Currently online: 648
Newest member: lafzsurat

TrekToday headlines

September-October Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Aug 29

Lee Passes
By: T'Bonz on Aug 29

Trek Merchandise Sale
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek #39 Villain Revealed
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Trek Big Bang Figures
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek Seekers Cover Art
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Fan Film Axanar Kickstarter Success
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Two New Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Actor Wins Emmy
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Retro Watches
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 31 2010, 08:35 PM   #31
od0_ital
Admiral
 
od0_ital's Avatar
 
Location: Nacogdoches, Texas
Send a message via Yahoo to od0_ital
Re: Time for a black or Latino Spider-Man

DarKush wrote: View Post
... I am disappointed that a lot of the black superhero/comic characters that have received movies over the last 20 years have been original creations or not tied to original comic book characters. You've had Meteor Man, Blankman, Catwoman, and Hancock in that vein. Only Blade, Spawn, and Steel have been derived from source material....
Dude, ya really think Catwoman was original?

The idea of multiple "catwomen" goes back to the '60s Batman series, where three different actresses - Julie Newmar, Lee Meriwether & Eartha Kitt - played the role of Catwoman!
__________________
od0's bucket od0's facebook
od0_ital is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 31 2010, 08:44 PM   #32
DarKush
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Time for a black or Latino Spider-Man

^
Catwoman was original in the sense that the movie Catwoman was not Selina Kyle, but a totally new character, Patience Price. On the old Batman TV series, all the women playing Catwoman were considered, to my knowledge, Selina Kyle. That TV show, and I believe at least one comic-maybe one of the Frank Miller comics-portrayed a black Kyle, but the movie chose to go in another direction.

The larger point I was trying to make was that the comic companies/movie studios aren't mining the non-white characters they have, that are already established, and just as often as not the films getting made involve totally new creations. I'm not completely opposed to that, but I think it would be nice to build on established black and other non-white characters so that it can lead to more support for their past stories (more published collections), more encouragement to use or continue to use them in current storylines, more non-white characters headlining books, support for new non-white characters, more toys, video games, etc. With a wholly original character, I haven't seen much of that kind of marketing where black characters are concerned. I don't think there were any Hancock action figures despite that movie's popularity.
DarKush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 31 2010, 09:18 PM   #33
Hermiod
Admiral
 
Hermiod's Avatar
 
Re: Time for a black or Latino Spider-Man

^We really shouldn't use the Batman TV show as an example. They just shoved people who were popular at the time in to any role that was available. That's why we got a guy who refused to shave off his moustache as the Joker too.
Hermiod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 31 2010, 10:23 PM   #34
od0_ital
Admiral
 
od0_ital's Avatar
 
Location: Nacogdoches, Texas
Send a message via Yahoo to od0_ital
Re: Time for a black or Latino Spider-Man

DarKush wrote: View Post
^
Catwoman was original in the sense that the movie Catwoman was not Selina Kyle, but a totally new character, Patience Price. On the old Batman TV series, all the women playing Catwoman were considered, to my knowledge, Selina Kyle....
Just goin' by IMDB.com on this, but the Lee Meriwether Catwoman used the regular name of Kitka (which went with her cover as a Russian, of course), while Julie Newmar's Catwoman used the name Minerva Mathews.

And do ya really think Eartha Kitt, a short black woman, was supposed to be the same character previously portrayed by tall white women?

... I don't think there were any Hancock action figures despite that movie's popularity.
I don't think Hancock was really all that "kid friendly," thus, no action figures. Would his accessories have included empty liquor bottles and an Asian's head up his own ass, human centipede-style?

Hermiod wrote: View Post
^We really shouldn't use the Batman TV show as an example. They just shoved people who were popular at the time in to any role that was available. That's why we got a guy who refused to shave off his moustache as the Joker too.
From what I've read, the folks "shoved" into roles wanted to be on the series because of its popularity at the time.

And Cesar Romera wasn't a bad Joker at all...too bad the blu ray has such a great picture quality, though. Ya can see his mustache! I never even noticed as a kid...
__________________
od0's bucket od0's facebook
od0_ital is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 31 2010, 10:33 PM   #35
Aragorn
Admiral
 
Aragorn's Avatar
 
Re: Time for a black or Latino Spider-Man

StarTrek1701 wrote: View Post
Oh and we'll most probably see Al Sharpton blowing his top off if we get a Chinese 'Blade' or Caucasian 'Uhura'.
Only if there's a camera nearby.
Aragorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1 2010, 12:43 AM   #36
DarKush
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Time for a black or Latino Spider-Man

Odo,

From my recollection there was never anything on the show that contradicted the idea that the various Catwomen were supposed to be different characters. They just appeared as Catwoman, without a reference to them being different characters, from what I recall, but I haven't seen the old Adam West show in years. In any event, that's beside the point. Was the character Halle Berry played Selina Kyle? And isn't Selina Kyle the most recognizable person who has been Catwoman?

No, she wasn't, and a lot of the comic book inspired black characters who have gotten movies over the last 20 years were not from actual comics, which I thought was interesting, and a sign that the comic book companies are not doing enough to develop these characters into motion picture properties.

As for Hancock, I'm not advocating them making Hancock action figures. I didn't like the film. But the point I'm making is that going with established characters might lead to more cross promotion and the making of toys, games, etc. It's harder to do that with original characters, unless you've got a big marketing machine behind you. But even new movie properties like Prince of Persia can reference games and graphic novels, and have something of a fan base because of that instead of manufacturing something whole cloth.
DarKush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1 2010, 01:04 AM   #37
od0_ital
Admiral
 
od0_ital's Avatar
 
Location: Nacogdoches, Texas
Send a message via Yahoo to od0_ital
Re: Time for a black or Latino Spider-Man

DarKush wrote: View Post
From my recollection there was never anything on the show that contradicted the idea that the various Catwomen were supposed to be different characters.
Aside from appearances, costumes, accents, aliases & that Batman discovered the identity of at least one of 'em, right?

They just appeared as Catwoman, without a reference to them being different characters, from what I recall, but I haven't seen the old Adam West show in years.
Neither have I, really wish it would come out on DVD...

In any event, that's beside the point.
No, its exactly the point - ya were tryin' to say Catwoman was an original film when it wasn't, and I was pointin' out that the precedent was set by the Batman franchise forty years ago for there to be different Catwomen.

Was the character Halle Berry played Selina Kyle?
No, but a photo of Michelle Pfieffer as Selina Kyle/Catwoman was used when the crazy cat lady was explainin' what had happened to Patience.

And isn't Selina Kyle the most recognizable person who has been Catwoman?
I'd say anyone in skin tight leather usin' a whip as a tail would be recognizable as Catwoman.

No, she wasn't, and a lot of the comic book inspired black characters who have gotten movies over the last 20 years were not from actual comics, which I thought was interesting, and a sign that the comic book companies are not doing enough to develop these characters into motion picture properties.
Samuel Jackson's contract with Marvel will give him a Nick Fury film. Don Cheadle has a multi-film contract with Marvel to continue the role of Rhodey/War Machine.

Yeah, ya can point a finger at the last couple of decades and complain about how much it sucks for minorities in superhero films, if ya want to do that. Knock yourself out.

Or, ya could look at what's goin' on now, at least for the Marvel universe, and see that things are changin'.

As for Hancock, I'm not advocating them making Hancock action figures. I didn't like the film. But the point I'm making is that going with established characters might lead to more cross promotion and the making of toys, games, etc. It's harder to do that with original characters, unless you've got a big marketing machine behind you. But even new movie properties like Prince of Persia can reference games and graphic novels, and have something of a fan base because of that instead of manufacturing something whole cloth.
Ya know the Prince of Persia is bein' played by a white guy, right?
__________________
od0's bucket od0's facebook
od0_ital is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1 2010, 01:40 AM   #38
A beaker full of death
Vice Admiral
 
A beaker full of death's Avatar
 
Re: Time for a black or Latino Spider-Man

Gaith wrote: View Post
io9 thinks so, and while I don't agree with all the points of their "rant" (while the military does have a sorry record dealing with African-Americans, a black Captain America would have been pretty awkward, historically speaking, and Will Smith is too old for the part anyway), I'm in favor of giving it a try with Spider-Man. Why not?

Here's one sort of person who shouldn't be cast: a Brit or other non-American-raised kid. Just say no!
I am so tired of this sort of racist crap...
__________________
"shall not be infringed" is naturally open to infringements of all kinds, because shut up and think of the children.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/...#ixzz2ImW0V3GV
A beaker full of death is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1 2010, 01:52 AM   #39
A beaker full of death
Vice Admiral
 
A beaker full of death's Avatar
 
Re: Time for a black or Latino Spider-Man

Hermiod wrote: View Post
^We really shouldn't use the Batman TV show as an example. They just shoved people who were popular at the time in to any role that was available. That's why we got a guy who refused to shave off his moustache as the Joker too.
As the best damn joker yet!
And Gorshin as the Riddler...
these guys defined those parts!
You think it was coincidence that they worked so well?
__________________
"shall not be infringed" is naturally open to infringements of all kinds, because shut up and think of the children.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/...#ixzz2ImW0V3GV
A beaker full of death is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1 2010, 02:09 AM   #40
Stone_Cold_Sisko
Vice Admiral
 
Re: Time for a black or Latino Spider-Man

Spider-Man is one of the few heroes who I really wouldn't mind if they cast a different race. Peter Parker is just a guy. I'm not attached to any specific look for him. Superman might look odd with a different skin-tone. It doesn't really matter with Superman. Getting the attitude of Peter Parker is more important.

Last edited by Stone_Cold_Sisko; June 1 2010 at 02:45 AM.
Stone_Cold_Sisko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1 2010, 02:18 AM   #41
Broccoli
Vice Admiral
 
Broccoli's Avatar
 
Location: Broccoli
Re: Time for a black or Latino Spider-Man

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
Hermiod wrote: View Post
^We really shouldn't use the Batman TV show as an example. They just shoved people who were popular at the time in to any role that was available. That's why we got a guy who refused to shave off his moustache as the Joker too.
As the best damn joker yet!
And Gorshin as the Riddler...
these guys defined those parts!
You think it was coincidence that they worked so well?
For sitcom villains, they worked well.
__________________
"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." -- Christopher Hitchens
Broccoli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1 2010, 02:45 AM   #42
DarKush
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Time for a black or Latino Spider-Man

What I am saying and have said since my initial post is the Halle Berry character is original. And her Catwoman bears little to no resemblance to the Selina Kyle character. How many times do I have to repeat that?

The Halle film is a little unique in terms of using a familiar name, the name Catwoman isn't made up for the film, but the Patience Price character is, which pretty much renders naming it Catwoman moot, since a lot of people associate the character with Selina Kyle. She is a new character and her Catwoman a new heroine. The Patience Price character with some tweaks could've just as easily been turned into Vixen. I mean, now that the comic book version sort of looks like Halle and is a model, the Catwoman film might've worked better as a Vixen film.

So I think Catwoman, despite the familiar name, is part of a pattern of making superhero movies, with black main characters, outside of established black comic book characters. There was no Patience Price in comic books before Halle's Catwoman, and to my knowledge there was no PP after the film came out, except for the likely comic book adaptation.

As for the old show, was it ever portrayed that Batman called the Catwomen by their real names or actually went out to discover their identities? I don't think he ever did that.

Prince of Persia example was not about ethnicity, it was about cross marketing. And using wholly original characters might make it harder to cross market material, or build on stuff already created.

Sometimes I would like to see more blacks and other non-white characters actually headline comic book films and not just be sidekicks, comic relief, etc. If you think that's complaining,that's your right. But even you can't deny the dearth of non-white leads for superhero films, despite a decent number of non-white superheroes at both major comic book companies, during this comic book movie boom. If you think I'm 'complaining' for pointing that out, that's your right. But it doesn't change the fact, nor does it do nothing to address some concerns that I and others share about this issue. I would like to see movies in which kids who are not white males can see people who look like them saving the world sometimes too.

I hope the SHIELD film gets made but there are many fanboys, generally white I'm assuming, who are probably still griping about Sam Jackson being Fury. Just like there is some grumbling about Idris Elba in the Thor film. Though I'm got a good suspicion that Scarlett Johannsen will be playing just as major a role as Fury in a SHIELD film, but beggars can't be choosy. And Don Cheadle has already stated that War Machine will not be getting a solo deal or his own series. Regarding other black heroes: Luke Cage is in development hell, there appear to be no plans to resurrect Blade, and I've heard grumbles about Black Panther, but nothing definite. So how exactly is that change at Marvel? Don't know if Falcon will be in the Captain America movies, Fury will be in the first, and I'm assuming Falcon will probably be in the second. So, outside of Fury (a white character made black), there's one potentially definite film with a black lead since Blade Trinity. That's a lot of change.

Last edited by DarKush; June 1 2010 at 03:00 AM.
DarKush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1 2010, 03:04 AM   #43
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: Time for a black or Latino Spider-Man

Pretty sure "Kitka" and "Minerva" were fake names and not presented as Catwomans actual identity.

"White" and "Persian" are not mutually exclusive.

Romero was the weakest bit of casting of the four main Batman villians. Gorshin, Meredith and Newmar were about as close to perfect as you can get.

IIRC, Spawn, Steel and War-Machine are all black comic book heroes who have made the leap from comics to the big screen more or less intact. (YMMV)
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 1 2010, 03:14 AM   #44
Broccoli
Vice Admiral
 
Broccoli's Avatar
 
Location: Broccoli
Re: Time for a black or Latino Spider-Man

Boy...I can't wait until The Last Airbender gets released...
__________________
"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." -- Christopher Hitchens
Broccoli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1 2010, 07:30 AM   #45
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Saint Louis (aka Defiance)
Re: Time for a black or Latino Spider-Man

Broccoli wrote: View Post
Boy...I can't wait until The Last Airbender gets released...
Organized boycotts are already underway, apparently.

Race is always a very sensitive issue, especially in regards to Hollywood, which rarely gets it "right" depending on who you ask--why is a person of this ethnicity cast for a certain role when it "should" be a person of that ethnicity.

In the case of The Last Airbender, many feel that an Asian actor should have been cast in the lead role because of the character's similiarity to a Shaolin Monk, even though the movie takes place on a different world than ours. I can understand and even sympathize with the frustration, but I can also understand the Hollywood mentality too and it isn't always about casting the "right" person for the role as it is about casting the person directors and producers feel best completes their particular vision (for good or for ill)...
__________________
"Everybody wants to rule the world..."

Last edited by C.E. Evans; June 1 2010 at 07:50 AM.
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
spider-man

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:51 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.