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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old May 18 2010, 02:41 PM   #16
starsuperion
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Re: The Tardis Exterior Final Designs Thread

Venardhi wrote: View Post
My only problem is the size. You've made it quite small in comparison to my mental image of a vast city-sized ship that one could easily get lost in.
The problem with this site we are currently on is that if you modify an image and try to go back and edit a post, there seems to be a time limit..

below is a revised scale sheet showing the Tardis and the Abrams Enterprise..





hmmmm.. maybe a top view would convey a better scale?





The best place to get the "up to date" Tardis designs and download them is on my deviant art site..

But here, I have reloaded the current images..these are the final versions..

http://time-lord-rassilon.deviantart.com/








but as far as size goes.. this comparison of the Tardis and the Newer Enterprise is a great example of the massiveness of the Tardis.. it's quite large, and if you think about the fact that the ship itself is spread out and is only piloted by 1 person.. think of all the space within that ship..

now, if you go by the episode of doctor who, Castrovalva.. The doctor and Adric ended up deep within the tardis in a matter of hours.. as apposed to days...so by that measure, and the multiple resources I have researched, I think that this final scale and size is about right.. now a tardis can add more Dome sections.. which house thousands of rooms and deck levels..but I think that most of the Doctor's ship is just about the size I have given it.. think about how in the classic series he had to jettison several rooms just to get a boost in power.. it seems to me that the Doctor's Tardis has to be a smaller size, considering the cost of power to maintain itself..and the fact he has to jettison sections to up his level of power in flight..

anyways.. in the size comparison to the USS Enterprise.. think of how large the Bridge is, and the saucer section with all those quarters, rooms, and departments, and decks.. then add that to just the smaller domes on the Tardis, and compare. then take a look at the observation towers, and you will notice the scale of the ship is quite massive..

By my measure, the Tardis at it's width, is 2,550 feet
and at it's tallest Habitable areas it is 750 Feet..
1,650 Feet Tall Total..


2550 feet = 777.24 meters, so I am a bit off in my ship chart scale below:





the official description from the novel "deceit" which describes an exterior view of the tardis by Ace from one of the observation towers said the Corinthian type columns of the Tardis were atleast 100 to 150 feet in diameter.. so that is another source for the size I used in the design of the Tardis..

Venardhi wrote: View Post
At the very least I'd think 2 or 3x the size. You could also do a lot more with the look of the default shell than a plain box. Give it a bit of that Timelordiness the rest of it exudes. Otherwise I love it, and it has been a pleasure to watch it evolve. Huge improvements all around.
The Plain box is all that i have ever seen of the default look of the ships.. even in the Marvel comics Doctor who from back in the day.. check issue no. 4, 2nd story in the back which was set on Gallifrey.. it was a box..of a different type of opening. I hear what your saying though, the ornate design of the tardis kinda begs for the default exterior to look more comparable.. however much of my work is artistic license, but it is all based on all of the referenced descriptions I have seen or read.. which is why the exterior of it has to remain a plain box, cause that is how the series to date has depicted it..

I really did base all of this on what we know..

On a side note, thanks for the compliment




26138 wrote: View Post
Venardhi wrote: View Post
My only problem is the size. You've made it quite small in comparison to my mental image of a vast city-sized ship that one could easily get lost in. At the very least I'd think 2 or 3x the size. You could also do a lot more with the look of the default shell than a plain box. Give it a bit of that Timelordiness the rest of it exudes. Otherwise I love it, and it has been a pleasure to watch it evolve. Huge improvements all around.
I do agree that the TARDIS seems that it should be "bigger-er" on the inside. However, I must disagree about the exterior. The "plain box" is what the TARDIS is theorized to look like without the chameleon circuit active. Reference is The War Games. You can see a row of SIDRATs or TARDISs (not sure which one they are) in this clip from that serial. They're in the rear of the first shot of the clip when Jamie and Zoe are talking to the time lord. Jamie and Zoe also enter one at around 3 minutes into the clip. Here's a picture of a SIDRAT from that serial:

this is the exact source.. you are completely correct..

as for the size of the Tardis.. please refer to the top side explanation.. I made corrections to the size in the final deviant art images, and I re-uploaded my Imageshack versions for you guys to see the new scale.. the Tardis is massive, IMHO, but If you imagine for a moment, from the new images I have submitted here.. the sheer size of the ship compared to the enterprise and the fact that a football field is at best 200 feet.. then you can see how massive this ship truly is, considering the smallest dome section is 200 feet in diameter..

lets consider another fact, the Type 40 Tardis had 305 versions made..

now consider that as the Time lords progressed they made a 45th type, a 70 Type, and so on.. and each type probably had 305 renditions made..so it just seems to me that it would take much longer to make 305 ships the size of a city then to make the 305 ships the size of 2,550 feet long, by 1,650 feet tall..I do think though, that the Tardis type 41, 42, 43, etc.. were probably only 1 or 2 made, and that when the Time Lords decided to mass produce a series, it was because they had the best version at that tiime, which is why some of the Tardis we see int he series are either 40, 45, or 70 types..and not a type 42, 43, etc..

now I am sure the tardis ships can create more deck sections and expand beyond what I have done here.. but like I said, consider the episodes of logopolis, castrovalva, the invasion of time, and the novel "deceit.." and the 1996 movie.. which gave the impression the cloister room was far away, but not too far..
So my point of view is the Tardis is massive.. but not too massive, and is very spacious considering there aren't a lot of crew quarters crammed into one space..like an enterprise ship..

Last edited by starsuperion; May 18 2010 at 04:05 PM.
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Old May 18 2010, 07:46 PM   #17
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Re: The Tardis Exterior Final Designs Thread

The TARDIS interior has been analogous in size to a small moon, or least has the potential to be that big on the inside, the Doctor's I think has shrunk over the years, he's jettisoned a lot of modules over time, but still, think BIGGER IMO. I'd put it more in line with the size of the Deathstar.
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Old May 18 2010, 09:40 PM   #18
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Re: The Tardis Exterior Final Designs Thread

Brent wrote: View Post
The TARDIS interior has been analogous in size to a small moon, or least has the potential to be that big on the inside, the Doctor's I think has shrunk over the years, he's jettisoned a lot of modules over time, but still, think BIGGER IMO. I'd put it more in line with the size of the Deathstar.
I can accept that it would have the potential to get that big.. I want to do a large schematic at some point showing a Tardis over grown, so much so that the outer lengths have become blackened and decayed because it grew too much.. kind alike a cancerous Tardis.. it just wouldn't stop growing.. and to do so it lost the ability to traverse time, and just sat there gorging itself on the particles and energy it drew from the rift via it's time sceptre..

IMHO the Tardis should have an optimum size.. and if it got too big, it would then have to release those sections or face serious problems..like the overgrown version I have described.. to make a Tardis as large as you say it should be, would cost tremendous energy to maintain.. and to do that would limit it's potential.. consider that also in the novels that the Tardis is shrunken to about the size of a small space ship as it was not needing the extra rooms for exploration..and was used for war.. so to conserve energy the war Tardis was made intentionally smaller..

and even still were the Sentient Tardis, which were even smaller then the War Tardises.. so honestly..while the Tardis I have designed can certainly add on multiple sections and more pillars/columns to hold back the dimensional forces..I would think that there is an optimum range which the images I have given depict.. I mean rationally what would the Time Lords need with more then a ship which is 2,550 feet long? with all those rooms and sections.. what else could they possibly want to include in the Tardis? The ships were supposed to be designed for exploration, and yet they never used them for more then that...

why build ships the size of Deathstars, and yet not use them?
why would the Tardis be the size of a deathstar to begin with? I think that our perception of what we think the tardis is in size is because the series has never quantified the size.. so left un-realized.. we tend to think it is bigger then it is...

I think it has the potential to get the size of a deathstar.. but realistically i think that 2,550 feet in length is quite large enough, and realistically is believable considering the particles and energy needed to sustain itself in its own dimension, and still be able to traverse time and space..

But I love this idea of a Type 40 Tardis that has overgrown itself so much so that it has become a decaying and monstrous machine..

a ZOMBIE Tardis!

I love it!

Brent, in a round about way, you just gave me a Great Idea! thanks man!

Last edited by starsuperion; May 18 2010 at 09:51 PM.
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Old May 19 2010, 04:45 AM   #19
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Re: The Tardis Exterior Final Designs Thread

Here is an answer to the size factor.. this is what the Tardis would look like when it is grown to a Maximum size..





Now I am going to work up a Zombie Tardis.. I love the idea..that a Tardis would corrupt itself by overgrowing, and then start to decay and eat at itself, and then become a zombie of sorts.. seeking out life to sustain itself, thus corrupting that life and turning those beings into zombies themselves.. until they turn to dust.. and the Zombie Tardis would make an excellent plot for a show..

I can't wait to start work on that..

anyhow.. a Tardis will grow and then stop, unless something is wrong and then it gluts on th energy it thrives off of from the universe, and the engines phase, and the ship starts to feed on itself and... well you will see.. but first....

I need to finish the basics of the type 70, coming soon..

Last edited by starsuperion; May 19 2010 at 05:38 AM.
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Old May 20 2010, 07:09 PM   #20
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Re: The Tardis Exterior Final Designs Thread

Many people have asked me about this.. so..

Here is my shoddy attempt at coloring the Tardis as seen in it's own reality..

if you look closely in the downloaded-able version, you will see near the bottom of the time sceptre the cloister room, which is adorned with a massive seal of Rassilon, a homage by the Time Lord engineers to the creator of their power..

the tardis is white, with some metallic silver, reddish copper, and gold, and blue glowing lights, with blinking lights and at the base of the Dynamorphic generators (under the pillars/columns), the bulbs pulse and rotate like the classic Star Trek Enterprise, while 2 gyro bars spin around the bulb in opposite directions..producing a light effect at the base..

in addition to that, the fan like section just below the cloister room, which has what look like fingers pointing downward, spin and draws energy particles up from the vortex spinning below the time sceptre..which then get drawn upwards to the intake section above the cloister deck, and are forced into the reaction chamber, whereby they are super collided into atron energy the life blood of the Tardis ship..and an energy field is emitted from the top, and excess particles are expelled from the crown of the pillars of destiny creating a matter bubble in which the Tardis can exist.. these particles are then re-excited and replenished via the open vortex below the Tardis Time Sceptre, and the process continues in a cycle..

In addition to the universal Gyros, and the particle propeller, the entire Tardis itself is slowly spinning in a clockwise direction..



to download the full size, go here:
http://time-lord-rassilon.deviantart.com/#/d2q2799

zombie Tardis...

Last edited by starsuperion; May 20 2010 at 07:54 PM.
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Old May 23 2010, 05:33 PM   #21
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Re: The Tardis Exterior Final Designs Thread

I've been enjoying these threads immensely, but for balance here's an article on the mind-bending cartography of the TARDIS, just published on io9.com.
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Old May 24 2010, 04:28 AM   #22
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Re: The Tardis Exterior Final Designs Thread

Scrawny71 wrote: View Post
I've been enjoying these threads immensely, but for balance here's an article on the mind-bending cartography of the TARDIS, just published on io9.com.
That is amazingly cool, and yet so absolutely absurd. I love it! it makes me think of a map designed by the Cheshire cat from Alice and wonderland.. thanks for the link.. I enjoyed it
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Old May 25 2010, 08:30 PM   #23
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Re: The Tardis Exterior Final Designs Thread

Okay so I know that the New Tardis Manual handbook thing is coming out soon.. so my work here may be for naught.

However, on the off chance that book doesn't do anything but point out what we have already seen, and such, then I shall continue in my endeavor..

I WAS going to do the newer Tardis consoles, and the engines, and floor plans and such, like Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise.. but like I said, with BBC releasing a Tardis guide by Steve Tribe.. I may just shut down what I am trying to do..

so if this is to be my last post on this subject..

I might as well go out with a bang!

here is everything so far..

revised..

reworked...

and uploaded for your pleasure...

It was fun while it lasted..I shall have to see how much I need to catch up on once I get the actual book from the BBC..

I am Kinda bumbed out now..

Oh well, thems the brakes..did I really expect the BBC not to define the Tardis?..no not really..but I was trying to at least get a jump on the things left open ended..it will remain to be seen what they have done.. and how it is received..

my work was going to marry the classic series with the newer version..and delve into the other Tardis models as we went along.. oh well..

Here is what II had finished so far..later ya'll














Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Damn shame! I mean, I was all set to map out the tardis, I had some awesome ideas.. oh well.. see you guys later..

Last edited by starsuperion; May 26 2010 at 01:27 PM.
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Old May 26 2010, 01:01 AM   #24
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Re: The Tardis Exterior Final Designs Thread

Just 'cause they've got a book coming out doesn't mean you shouldn't continue your awesome work. Personally, I doubt they could come out with anything that would even remotely reach the ingenuity of your designs.

I would love to see you continue these!
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Old May 26 2010, 04:59 AM   #25
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Re: The Tardis Exterior Final Designs Thread

Joy wrote: View Post
Just 'cause they've got a book coming out doesn't mean you shouldn't continue your awesome work. Personally, I doubt they could come out with anything that would even remotely reach the ingenuity of your designs.

I would love to see you continue these!
thank you for your kind words of encouragement.. I am still in a mood about the whole thing, but I may reconsider.. thanks again.. I am glad you like what I have produced so far. though, I may go back in and restyle the font on the images..
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Old May 26 2010, 11:12 AM   #26
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Re: The Tardis Exterior Final Designs Thread

OMG!!! These are fantastic as were the other Tardis exterior designs in the other threads and I was going to ask you in my book thread if you had planned on doing interior designs of the Tardis as book or not I would be interested in seeing them!
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Old May 26 2010, 11:35 AM   #27
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Re: The Tardis Exterior Final Designs Thread

Just go for it and do your thing! What does some merchandise matter in that regard? Personally, i find it rather nice to see more than one take on mapping and explaining sci-fi techK; if things collide, i take, what i like from any source and ignore the rest (or find some explanation, why both things are true).
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Old May 26 2010, 12:33 PM   #28
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Re: The Tardis Exterior Final Designs Thread

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
OMG!!! These are fantastic as were the other Tardis exterior designs in the other threads and I was going to ask you in my book thread if you had planned on doing interior designs of the Tardis as book or not I would be interested in seeing them!
actually what I was planning on doing, was to do a book like if you were a new fresh academy student studying the basics of what the Tardis is, like the star trek star fleet manual..I may continue, I am not sure.. but I would love to keep mapping the ship, and doing floor plans and such..so you could easily print it out and place it in a binder..I would recommend legal size paper and 3 ring binder..

Sean_McCormick wrote: View Post
Just go for it and do your thing! What does some merchandise matter in that regard? Personally, i find it rather nice to see more than one take on mapping and explaining sci-fi techK; if things collide, i take, what i like from any source and ignore the rest (or find some explanation, why both things are true).
yeah, you may be right.. I just don't know.. I mean, sometimes I get excited,and then sometimes, I think well, maybe my work is better off being done the way I am doing it, because it is untainted by the Steve tribe book..

we will see..I am currently doing a great deal of work on doctor who art.. but the Tardis mapping stuff, even though it looks like work, is fun for me..I may do some more updates..
thanks for the kind words of encouragement.

I was going to do the Tennant (10th doctor) console next..

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Old June 1 2010, 01:57 PM   #29
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Re: The Tardis Exterior Final Designs Thread

Here is a sort of vision I had as to what the War Spires of the Time Lords, AKA War Tardises, would look like in formation above Gallifrey, ready to tackle the Daleks in their ships..

I hope you like it..


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
the description I used for the Tardis design is listed below, I got that from this website source:
http://www.whoniverse.org/tardis/type91.php

It occurred to me, that if the Time Lords were to succeed, they would need a 3 door approach to their tardises, 2 doors on each side would release a contingent of Raston Warrior Robots-Mark V, and the main entrance would be for the Chancellery Troopers.. for invasion on Dalek ships, or planetary conflicts..I also figured that since we knew that Daleks were experts at fighting Tardises in the Time War, that the New Tardis would come with a spacial anchor, which melds the Tardis with an object in this reality, whereby the Daleks can not take the ship in tow, like they did the Tardis from the stolen earth to the crucible...at the end of season 4

Less then 20 years before the beginning of the last Time War the first Type 91x TARDISes, prototypes for the Type 91, were created. Their default shapes are deliberately large and eye-catching - usually appearing to be gold space ships - massive spires of gold, with corkscrews at the tip and covered in spikes. The Type 91 would continue to be produced for at least the first 50 years of the Time War. They are equipped with a variety of weapons which can be launched from their Time Warp Silos including:
Weaponry

  • Earthshock Bombs consist of fission-fusion devices that create a tiny hole in the Space-Time Continuum. This creates massive amounts of radiation and intertemporal shock waves. These weapons were occasionally mounted on Type 40 TARDISes around the time of the Doctor's birth and were capable of reducing large asteroids to rubble.
  • Time Torpedoes are also launched from the Time Warp Silos of a War TARDIS. It takes a little over 30 seconds for them to reach their target. When they detonate, their target is frozen in a microsecond of space-time for several centuries. These weapons are capable of breaching even a TARDIS's defenses.
  • A Tuckson-Jacker Energy Weapon is based on the technology used in certain weather control systems. When set to broad spectrum, the Tuckson-Jacker Energy can tractor a TARDIS out of the Vortex and into real space. When set to pulse-mode, the Tuckson-Jacker Energy bursts are capable of penetrating a TARDIS Force Field. A successful hit renders both the TARDIS and the Time Lord operator incapacitated. Any Lesser humanoid species that was aboard would be killed.
  • An Artron Cannon, which is capable (at point blank range) of killing a Chronovore or an Eternal. A more general form of this weapon includes the ability to release an omni-directional psychic blast of Artron Energy by opening a direct wormhole to the Prime Eye of Harmony on Gallifrey. The resulting burst of Artron Energy will kill any Timeships that are within the blast radius. The blast will also destroy any Chronovores in the area.
  • A powerful Vortex Lance rounds out the offenses of a Type 91 War TARDIS.
NOTE:
Here is something to look forward to as I design all the time lord tardises and their bow ships, and even mapping of the citadel!

The Proto-Tardis:

the Proto-Tardis, was a half formed ship, very similar to the modern day Tardis, in it's basic design, yet the bulk and size of the ship was much less then you would expect.. it's crew capacity could only support at best 100 Time Lords, and that included engineers, and science lords.

Rassilon's Tardis:

As the ancient Black scrolls foretold, the powers and devices Rassilon created for subjugation and to conquer other races, were abominable..never the less, the Tardis specifically built for Rassilon in the ancient days was a Type 7, and was the only Type 7 Tardis created..it's sheer size and mass was unbelievable. Though not as advanced as some may have dreamed, the Type 7 was pretty advanced for it's day. The interior was majestic, and had ornate columns, and sculpted time lord statues, as well as giant Time lord statues holding up various parts of the ship, and included ornate laurel leaf symbols, and ancient High Gallifreyan text, in certain places..It was the control room that was the most intriguing of the type 7. The room was a large domed Panopticon, with a ceiling that was at least 17 feet high, and was supported by pillars all around. the center of the room housed a large console, which fanned outward in 3 directions..

above the console in a throne like setting was where Rassilon sat, commanding his ship and personal army about the cosmos. Rassilon's Tardis had the ability to open a large gateway to a weapons store within the Tardis, accessible through the massive exterior. The Default outer shell of Rassilon's Tardis was no less then a Massive Ornate and sculpted Monolith. Intimidation was a key strategy of Rassilon's, and worked more often then brute force, sometimes all Rassilon had to do was land the Type 7 Tardis on a planet and remain there silent for a few days, and the inhabitants would be so scared, they would give up!

Rassilon's ship carried a legion of Raston Warrior Robots, a contingent of Chancellery Guard, a science/medical crew of about 35, an engineering crew of 25, and an advisory executive crew of 15, and a council ruling class contingent of 9 high Ranking Time Lords.

Rassilon's Garage contained hover Tanks, and various warfare devices for planetary subjugation..including drones, and a planetary isolation field generator.
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Old June 2 2010, 02:37 PM   #30
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Re: The Tardis Exterior Final Designs Thread

starsuperion wrote: View Post

Rassilon's Tardis:

As the ancient Black scrolls foretold, the powers and devices Rassilon created for subjugation and to conquer other races, were abominable..never the less, the Tardis specifically built for Rassilon in the ancient days was a Type 7, and was the only Type 7 Tardis created..it's sheer size and mass was unbelievable. Though not as advanced as some may have dreamed, the Type 7 was pretty advanced for it's day. The interior was majestic, and had ornate columns, and sculpted time lord statues, as well as giant Time lord statues holding up various parts of the ship, and included ornate laurel leaf symbols, and ancient High Gallifreyan text, in certain places..It was the control room that was the most intriguing of the type 7. The room was a large domed Panopticon, with a ceiling that was at least 17 feet high, and was supported by pillars all around. the center of the room housed a large console, which fanned outward in 3 directions..

above the console in a throne like setting was where Rassilon sat, commanding his ship and personal army about the cosmos. Rassilon's Tardis had the ability to open a large gateway to a weapons store within the Tardis, accessible through the massive exterior. The Default outer shell of Rassilon's Tardis was no less then a Massive Ornate and sculpted Monolith. Intimidation was a key strategy of Rassilon's, and worked more often then brute force, sometimes all Rassilon had to do was land the Type 7 Tardis on a planet and remain there silent for a few days, and the inhabitants would be so scared, they would give up!

Rassilon's ship carried a legion of Raston Warrior Robots, a contingent of Chancellery Guard, a science/medical crew of about 35, an engineering crew of 25, and an advisory executive crew of 15, and a council ruling class contingent of 9 high Ranking Time Lords.

Rassilon's Garage contained hover Tanks, and various warfare devices for planetary subjugation..including drones, and a planetary isolation field generator.
Don't you dare leave us with just this description. You HAVE to draw this beast now.

And you know, Rassilon probably upgraded his Tardis for the time war or had a modern version built for him with even more formidable features - probably including several D-MAT guns as its primary weapons battery.
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