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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old May 25 2010, 11:27 PM   #346
The Mighty Monkey of Mim
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Re: Where did Spock go?

Pike field promoted him to lieutenant just before he left for the Narada, didn't he?
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Old May 25 2010, 11:34 PM   #347
Captain Robert April
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Re: Where did Spock go?

Apparently JJ and his hacks think assignments in the military operate on the same principle as picking sides for dodge ball.
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Old May 25 2010, 11:38 PM   #348
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Where did Spock go?

The Mighty Monkey of Mim wrote: View Post
Pike field promoted him to lieutenant just before he left for the Narada, didn't he?
He promoted him to first officer. No mention of rank, IIRC.

Wasn't Kirk Prime a lieutenant (and instructor) at the academy? It's possible something similar was going on in the alternate universe.
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Old May 25 2010, 11:40 PM   #349
Captain Robert April
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Re: Where did Spock go?

In the movie, he was a third year cadet on the verge of being put on academic suspension.

Yeah, great first officer material there...
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Old May 26 2010, 12:50 AM   #350
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Re: Where did Spock go?

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
In the movie, he was a third year cadet on the verge of being put on academic suspension.

Yeah, great first officer material there...
In the JJverse he's prime flag officer materiel.
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Old May 26 2010, 06:14 AM   #351
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Re: Where did Spock go?

Dennis wrote: View Post
Gep Malakai wrote: View Post

1.) I thought he locked his fora so only he could read them, and
Langy bans your IP if he notices you visiting more than a couple of times.

Seriously.
No big loss there. It shouldn't have surprised me, I suppose, that he would also be a racist nutbag in addition to the regular variety, but having discovered that, it does further reduce the temptation for a return visit.
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Old May 26 2010, 04:52 PM   #352
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Re: Where did Spock go?

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
Apparently JJ and his hacks think assignments in the military operate on the same principle as picking sides for dodge ball.
I love dodge ball. I have some great childhood memories of playing this game during recess in elementary school.

Dennis wrote: View Post
Gep Malakai wrote: View Post

1.) I thought he locked his fora so only he could read them, and
Langy bans your IP if he notices you visiting more than a couple of times.

Seriously.
Holy crap. I just went to that link you posted, Dennis. That guy is batshit nuts.
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Old May 26 2010, 05:46 PM   #353
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Re: Where did Spock go?

Abrams and company probably got their notions of Starfleet protocol and assignment policies from watching stuff like Star Trek: The Motion Picture and Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. They may even have watched "The Menagerie" - if you buy what happens in those stories, you'll figure that absolutely anything can be justified.
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Old May 26 2010, 06:31 PM   #354
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Re: Where did Spock go?

Dukhat wrote: View Post
Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
Apparently JJ and his hacks think assignments in the military operate on the same principle as picking sides for dodge ball.
I love dodge ball. I have some great childhood memories of playing this game during recess in elementary school.
Americans... need to play armor to play football, and then talk about dodging the ball. Only wimps play with armor and play dodge ball.

With us, that game is called HIT ball. Because it's about hitting your oppents with the ball. You don't doge the ball, you catch the ball.

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Old May 26 2010, 08:16 PM   #355
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Re: Where did Spock go?

Us? Wimps?

Wimps get overrun in five days.
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Old May 28 2010, 03:57 AM   #356
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Re: Where did Spock go?

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
In the movie, he was a third year cadet on the verge of being put on academic suspension.
But he was just about to graduate. And since Kirk Prime graduated with the rank of Lieutenant, it is possible that nuKirk was just about to do the same. So Kirk (for most of the film) simply got the rank that he would have gotten anyway.
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Old May 28 2010, 04:16 AM   #357
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Re: Where did Spock go?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Kirk Prime graduated with the rank of Lieutenant

Where's that coming from? Seems to me that in TOS Officers graduate the academy as ensigns, and those who then go on to command school come out as lieutenants.
See, e.g., http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhGaUEWtUNU at 5:15
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Old May 28 2010, 07:49 AM   #358
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Re: Where did Spock go?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
In the movie, he was a third year cadet on the verge of being put on academic suspension.
But he was just about to graduate.
Not if he's about to be suspended, he's not!

And since Kirk Prime graduated with the rank of Lieutenant, it is possible that nuKirk was just about to do the same. So Kirk (for most of the film) simply got the rank that he would have gotten anyway.
TOS Kirk entered the Academy at 17, was a model student, and spent four years there; that's how he managed to graduate as a lieutenant (j.g.). (This is under the official assumption that his time on the Republic, referenced in "Court Marial", when he was explicitly described as an ensign, was his Academy training cruise just prior to graduation, and actions like catching that open circuit and saving the ship contributed to his attaining Lt.(j.g.) upon graduation.)

JJ-Kirk didn't enter until he was in his early twenties and was a punk from Day One. Only in the JJverse would a troublemaker like that even graduate from the Academy, let alone at any rank higher than ensign.
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Old May 28 2010, 02:21 PM   #359
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Re: Where did Spock go?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
But he was just about to graduate. And since Kirk Prime graduated with the rank of Lieutenant, it is possible that nuKirk was just about to do the same. So Kirk (for most of the film) simply got the rank that he would have gotten anyway.
Well, there's no question that Abrams's Trek doesn't improve on Star Trek's history of playing fast and loose with this kind of thing.

Truth to tell this was the one thing about the movie that annoyed me somewhat (other folks are welcome to gnash their teeth over the use of a location for the engineering sets, thank you very much). Ultimately, though, I think it trivial next to all of the things the movie got right and did very, very well.
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Old May 28 2010, 03:16 PM   #360
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Re: Where did Spock go?

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
TOS Kirk entered the Academy at 17, was a model student, and spent four years there; that's how he managed to graduate as a lieutenant (j.g.). (This is under the official assumption that his time on the Republic, referenced in "Court Marial", when he was explicitly described as an ensign, was his Academy training cruise just prior to graduation, and actions like catching that open circuit and saving the ship contributed to his attaining Lt.(j.g.) upon graduation.)

JJ-Kirk didn't enter until he was in his early twenties and was a punk from Day One. Only in the JJverse would a troublemaker like that even graduate from the Academy, let alone at any rank higher than ensign.
This is what I dislike most about his rapid promotion. It pisses all over the hard work that original Kirk and other military officers go through to deserve their ranks.

Very often 'heroes' in modern American movies are so objectionable that I'm rooting for the serial killers and NuKirk flirts dangerously close to this, although Pine is so sweet that he manages to deflect enough of the negativity to make NuKirk endearing. There is a whiff of Bush era politics about NuKirk - he is so sure he is right that he must act unilaterally and everybody else is just plain wrong.

He should have been promoted to first officer and given a chance to mature before being placed in charge of 400+ lives with no safety net.
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