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Old May 24 2010, 10:13 PM   #1
Crewman47
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Location: Ayrshire, Scotland
Marines in the SGC?

Now I know what the Airforce, the Army and the Navy all are and I do have read about a small bit about the Marines and know that there more or less assigned as a support unit to the Navy but what about there role in the SGC, is it just generally the same? Also who's in charge of the Marines overall, in the SGC itself?

The reason I'm asking now is because I've been watching season 1 of Atlantis and although Shepherd is an Airforce Major, after Sumner (who is a Marine Colonel) gets killed, Shepherd is the one who is given command of the military personnel. I'm assuming as Ford is also Marine and a Lieutenant he would've been second in command so shouldn't would he have command over the Marines also?

Does this sort of thing happen in the RL military where officers from one branch take command of units from another branch?
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Old May 24 2010, 10:48 PM   #2
Star Wolf
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

US Marine have long ago grown from the original role of Marines as just ship board guards and snipers working for the Captain.

The Marines would be under something similar to today's Special Operations Command. The USMC might train, house and feed them but made operational they would work for the force commander, no matter what service

They were not organized as USMC platoons and USAF gate teams as far as I can tell. There was no reason to have separate USMC, USAF and Allied military contingents as far as my limited watching of Atlantis can prove. Administratively Lieutenant Ford may have completed the boring task like fitness reports as the senior rater of Marines but his primary task seemed to be a gun fighter and adviser to Major Sheppard who was a helicopter pilot who happened to have special DNA.

In the regular forces a Lieutenant might bring his platoon in total to be tasked organized into another unit's company. In those cases the small unit commander would continue to command his, he might even take over the larger unit he is attached to if their leaders become casualties

[Does this sort of thing happen in the RL military where officers from one branch take command of units from another branch
Happens all the time. We know about theatre commanders, the Eisenhower's and MacArthur's having their own navies and air forces along with allied nations troops to command. In Special operations it can and often happens at much lower levels of task organization. Down to the single of pair of USAF Special Ops Combat Controllers who are commanded by the SEAL, Ranger, Force Recon, Special Forces teams they normally support in the field. Outside of Stargate most are commanded while deployed by officers of different services.
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Old May 24 2010, 11:00 PM   #3
mtblillie
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

I believe most of the military personnel for the atlantis expedition were marines. Shepard as far as I know was chosen for the expedition simply because he was able to use the ancient technology. He was chosen for overall command of the military personnel because of his grade, not position; major outranks a lieutenant.

As far as the difference with marines they were probably chosen because Marines are organized into expeditionary forces, designed to start from a "beachhead" and expand outward. Their biggest strength is their mobility without as much heavy equipment and being able to hold postion without a lot of armor or equipment or backup, I imagine that has much to do with why they are chosen.

I always kind of thought it funny that the air force was the primary force in stargate. I understand why it was chosen, being a space type mission is an air force thing, but as far as air force special forces, they are designed for either combat search and rescue or for scouting targets before, during and after aircraft strikes, not for what they are used for in the movies and shows. I would have expected specially trained rangers or delta operators, but that is just me.
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Old May 25 2010, 01:42 AM   #4
The Wormhole
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

All the military personel seen throughout SG-1 are Air Force, unless otherwise stated. We know there have been a few Marine SG teams, most notably the SG-3 Marines.

Interestingly enough, although the Air Force runs the American Stargate program, the Russian one was run by Russia's Army, with an Army officer in command of the Russian starship Korolev.

In Atlantis all the military personel in the first season were Marines with the exception of Sheppard, who was Air Force. Colonel Sumner identified himself as a Marine, as did Colonel Everett in the finale. Likewise Lt. Ford and several of the support characters clearly had USMC on their uniforms. Strangely enough, Sgt. Bates had USMC on his uniform, but when they brought him back in the fourth season, he spoke of being discharged from the Air Force. In subsequent seasons more Air Force personel were brought in (Daedalus crew, Major Lorne). Also, the episode Runner established that all branches of the US military had a presence on Atlantis.

Most of the SGU characters are Air Force, though there is a Marine presence there as well. Sgt. Greer is confirmed as a Marine, and I think Sgt. Spencer was as well. Though Colonels Young and Telford, Lieutenants Scott, Johansen, and James, and Sgt. Riley are confirmed as Air Force.
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Old May 25 2010, 02:02 AM   #5
Star Wolf
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

Since the USAF has no Corporal rank other known Marines are the woman who didn't catch the tick madness, the dead and the fat corporal who General O'Neill stoned into and the dead one who emptied a pistol magazine at the water bugs.
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Old May 25 2010, 02:24 AM   #6
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

Did the Navy get ANYTHING to do in this series? I mean, at the very least, I'd have assumed that the starships (being, you know, ships and all ) would be their purview.
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Old May 25 2010, 02:38 AM   #7
Star Wolf
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Did the Navy get ANYTHING to do in this series? I mean, at the very least, I'd have assumed that the starships (being, you know, ships and all ) would be their purview.
Your Trek bias is showing they are not starships they are fast space craft and the Air Force is very capable in flying fast craft thank you!
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Old May 25 2010, 03:43 AM   #8
Caliburn24
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

It is odd how the one US military unit best suited and organized for working through the Stargate has never been seen in any incarnation of the show.

I'm talking of course about the Army's Green Berets.

The United States Army Special Forces, also known as Green Berets, are a Special Operations Force (SOF) of the United States Army tasked with six primary missions: unconventional warfare, foreign internal defense, special reconnaissance, direct action, hostage rescue, and counter-terrorism. The first two emphasize language, cultural, and training skills in working with foreign troops. Other duties include combat search and rescue (CSAR), security assistance, peacekeeping, humanitarian assistance, humanitarian demining, counter-proliferation, psychological operations, manhunts, and counter-drug operations; other components of the United States Special Operations Command or other U.S. government activities may also specialize in these secondary areas.[2] Many of their operational techniques are classified, but some nonfiction works[3] and doctrinal manuals are available.[4][5][6]


The original and most important mission of the Special Forces had been "unconventional warfare", while other capabilities, such as direct action, were gradually added.


Their official motto is De Oppresso Liber (Latin: To Liberate the Oppressed), a reference to one of their primary missions, training and advising foreign indigenous forces.[7]

That motto alone would be awesome in Stargate. Not enough? Check out how they're organized into Operation Detachment-Alpha(ODA) or A-Teams, tailor made for Stargate missions...



An ODA consists of 12 men, each of whom has a specific function (MOS or Military Occupational Specialty) on the team, however all members of an ODA conduct cross-training. The ODA is led by an 18A (Detachment Commander), usually a Captain, and a 180A (Assistant Detachment Commander) who is his second in command, usually a Warrant Officer One or Chief Warrant Officer Two. The team also includes the following enlisted men: one 18Z team sergeant (Operations Sergeant), usually a Master Sergeant, one 18F (Assistant Operations and Intelligence Sergeant), usually a Sergeant First Class, and two each, 18Bs (Weapons Sergeant), 18Cs (Engineer Sergeant), 18Ds (Medical Sergeant), and 18Es (Communications Sergeant), usually Sergeants First Class, Staff Sergeants or Sergeants. This organization facilitates 6-man "split team" operations, redundancy, and mentoring between a senior specialist NCO and his junior assistant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special...ed_States_Army)

Toss in a couple experts on Ancient/Alien technology and language and you'd be good to go.

Last edited by Caliburn24; May 25 2010 at 03:44 AM. Reason: adding source
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Old May 25 2010, 03:57 AM   #9
Star Wolf
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

Caliburn24 wrote: View Post
It is odd how the one US military unit best suited and organized for working through the Stargate has never been seen in any incarnation of the show.

I'm talking of course about the Army's Green Berets.

.
It is because of Rambo.

Actually the military "superstar" used for most fictional characters goes in cycles. It was the Special Forces but their coming out party, Vietnam fell in defeat. Then we started hearing nothing but SEALS, then it was the turn of USMC Scout/Snipers. Characters who were former soldiers were all Rangers. USAF PJs being rescue specialist were coming into vogue when 9/11 happened. But by that time the space soldiers of Stargate were already Air force.
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Old May 25 2010, 04:19 AM   #10
BenRoethig
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Most of the SGU characters are Air Force, though there is a Marine presence there as well. Sgt. Greer is confirmed as a Marine, and I think Sgt. Spencer was as well. Though Colonels Young and Telford, Lieutenants Scott, Johansen, and James, and Sgt. Riley are confirmed as Air Force.
MSGT Greer. The show does this for familiarity, but calling Master Sergeant Greer Sergeant is inappropriate, doubly so because he's a Marine. In the Army, Staff Sergeant and Sergeant First class may be shortened to Sergeant same with Staff Sergeant And Tech Sergeant in the Air Force. The Marines do shorten shorten to sergent and master/First sergeants and Sergeant Majors in all branches must be adressed by their full rank.

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Did the Navy get ANYTHING to do in this series? I mean, at the very least, I'd have assumed that the starships (being, you know, ships and all ) would be their purview.
Its a technicality, but the 304s are owned by the Navy because they carry the U.S.S. prefix. Air Force owned vessels carry U.S.A.F.S. or U.S.A.F.V.

Star Wolf wrote: View Post
Your Trek bias is showing they are not starships they are fast space craft and the Air Force is very capable in flying fast craft thank you!
The Air Force has little to no experience with large crews, carrier ops, or fleet warfare.

Also, if you want to look at the well know space pioneers, most of them were naval aviators.
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Old May 25 2010, 04:32 AM   #11
Star Wolf
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

BenRoethig wrote: View Post

Star Wolf wrote: View Post
Your Trek bias is showing they are not starships they are fast space craft and the Air Force is very capable in flying fast craft thank you!
The Air Force has little to no experience with large crews, carrier ops, or fleet warfare.

Also, if you want to look at the well know space pioneers, most of them were naval aviators.
Is that "large crew" as in feeding the large guns of a battleship? I say it is little different then the heavy bombers formations of WWII . I haven't seen task forces, squadrons and fleets of earth vessels on Stargate myself however.

And how many of the scientist/test pilot/aviators actually went back to the Navy and commanded a ship or worked in a fleet with the "large crews, carrier operations (say department head) and fleet tactics"? Or in fact did any of that work before beginning astronaut training? At NASA how was an aviator any different from a pilot?
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Old May 25 2010, 04:35 AM   #12
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

Star Wolf wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Did the Navy get ANYTHING to do in this series? I mean, at the very least, I'd have assumed that the starships (being, you know, ships and all ) would be their purview.
Your Trek bias is showing they are not starships they are fast space craft
What's the diff? They sure look like starships to me.

BenRoethig wrote: View Post
Its a technicality, but the 304s are owned by the Navy because they carry the U.S.S. prefix. Air Force owned vessels carry U.S.A.F.S. or U.S.A.F.V.
But aren't all of the Daedaluses (Daedali?) clearly Air Force-owned (their crews are all Air Force, we know that much) *and* have the USS prefix?
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Old May 25 2010, 06:38 AM   #13
BenRoethig
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

Star Wolf wrote: View Post
Is that "large crew" as in feeding the large guns of a battleship? I say it is little different then the heavy bombers formations of WWII . I haven't seen task forces, squadrons and fleets of earth vessels on Stargate myself however.
A bomber is a lot different from a ship. How many air force people know what to do when a ship goes to general quarters. How many are trained in damage control, especially firefighting in close quarters? How many air force pilots would be trained in the type of precision flying it would take to land a F-302 abord one?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
But aren't all of the Daedaluses (Daedali?) clearly Air Force-owned (their crews are all Air Force, we know that much) *and* have the USS prefix?
U.S. law reserves the U.S.S. designation to a ship commissioned in the United States. The only way legally this could be is if the ship was commissioned by the Navy and was assigned a Navy crew.
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Old May 25 2010, 07:19 AM   #14
Hermiod
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Did the Navy get ANYTHING to do in this series? I mean, at the very least, I'd have assumed that the starships (being, you know, ships and all ) would be their purview.
IIRC, the Navy's main contribution to the Stargate saga was a carrier group being attacked and destroyed, off-screen, by Anubis' forces in "The Lost City".

On top of that, they were involved in "Small Victories" when attempting to stop the single Replicator that had survived the destruction of Thor's ship.
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Old May 25 2010, 02:39 PM   #15
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Marines in the SGC?

BenRoethig wrote: View Post
.

Also, if you want to look at the well know space pioneers, most of them were naval aviators.
Yes and now NASA is doing unmaned stuff right now, while it looks like the next maned space craft is going to be built by the Airforce.

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post

What's the diff? They sure look like starships to me.
Yeah but they would actually handel more like planes when you think about it.
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