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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old May 24 2010, 04:43 PM   #301
3D Master
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Re: Where did Spock go?

Actually, Bread and Circuses talks about a nuclear holocaust. Which is probably where the racial purging of Colonel Green occurred.
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Old May 24 2010, 06:51 PM   #302
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Re: Where did Spock go?

I've checked the transcript and I'm pretty sure it doesn't!
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Old May 24 2010, 07:19 PM   #303
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Re: Where did Spock go?

Nope, I'm pretty sure there's no such reference in "Bread And Circuses."
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Old May 24 2010, 08:39 PM   #304
Ronald Held
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Re: Where did Spock go?


Here is more evidence that the Kelvin was not designed in the Prime Universe. this image came from a Julien's catalogue. the weapon looks nothing like the Cage lasers. Unless someone think it is a transition form between the Phase pistols of ST:Enterprise and the lasers of Pike and crew?
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Old May 24 2010, 08:53 PM   #305
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Where did Spock go?

Ronald Held wrote: View Post

Here is more evidence that the Kelvin was not designed in the Prime Universe. this image came from a Julien's catalogue. the weapon looks nothing like the Cage lasers. Unless someone think it is a transition form between the Phase pistols of ST:Enterprise and the lasers of Pike and crew?
Nice find!

Why assume there's only one model of phaser in use at any one time? You can't say that about the military of today.

STII, III, V and VI all had different phaser designs. The STII ones showed up again on the Enterprise-C in "Yesterday's Enterprise", and the STIII ones cropped up in TNG. I remember old Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise saying that several companies provided various weapon models to Starfleet.
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Old May 24 2010, 08:58 PM   #306
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Re: Where did Spock go?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Nope, I'm pretty sure there's no such reference in "Bread And Circuses."
Correct. "Bread and Circuses" confirms the three world wars mentioned in "Space Seed" which is no surprise considering Coon wrote/co-wrote both. Kirk's mention of Earth avoiding a nuclear holocaust is supported by Spock's statement in "Omega Glory" that the Yangs and Kohms, in their post-apocalyptic world, "fought the war your Earth avoided". Populations can be bombed out of existence ("Space Seed" with conventional weapons and Col. Green's series of genocidal wars need not have been global or nuclear. Most likely similar to, but larger than the ethnic cleansing seen in the Balkans during the 1990's.
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Old May 24 2010, 09:12 PM   #307
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Re: Where did Spock go?

DevilEyes wrote: View Post
Undo it? How? You make it sound like he's some sort of wizard who can undo anything that happened. If he is, why didn't he, in some 40-some-odd years of Trek, undo the destruction of numerous other planets - say, those destroyed in the Doomsday Machine?

Imagine what a fun show would that be, Spock constantly undoing anything bad that happened to anyone...
Star Trek is filled to the gills with time travel. If they can go back and save the whales, they can go back and save Vulcan. It's not like there's no access to a starship, and Old Spock could show them how to do it. "Hey Jim, how'd you like to save my planet and your dad? All you gotta do is go back in time and phaser Nero to hell before all this gets going. Hey, he's gonna die by your hand anyway, might as well kill him and save some lives in the process, right? And, the best part, you STILL get to be cap'n and hang out with all of us!"

Unless, of course, this really isn't TOS Spock and he never did the slingshot thing and doesn't know how to time travel.

I like Cracker Jacks.
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Old May 24 2010, 09:53 PM   #308
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Where did Spock go?

As I said earlier, Spock "fixing" the timeline would essentially murder Kirk and replace him with the TOS version, alter the last 25 years of trillions of people and condemn Romulus and Remus to death in 2387.

Spock is not god. He doesn't have the right. STXIKirk has the same right to live as TOS Kirk had. The damage was already done by the time Spock arrived in the past.

All Spock could do was minimize further damage.
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Old May 24 2010, 10:09 PM   #309
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Re: Where did Spock go?

Lieut. Arex wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
Nope, I'm pretty sure there's no such reference in "Bread And Circuses."
Correct. "Bread and Circuses" confirms the three world wars mentioned in "Space Seed" which is no surprise considering Coon wrote/co-wrote both. Kirk's mention of Earth avoiding a nuclear holocaust is supported by Spock's statement in "Omega Glory" that the Yangs and Kohms, in their post-apocalyptic world, "fought the war your Earth avoided". Populations can be bombed out of existence ("Space Seed" with conventional weapons and Col. Green's series of genocidal wars need not have been global or nuclear. Most likely similar to, but larger than the ethnic cleansing seen in the Balkans during the 1990's.
I know there is at least one episode in S3 that mentions there was a atomic/nuclear holocaust, but if it isn't Bread and Circuses, I don't know which one it exactly is. Do notice that a holocaust is not a war. It seems that even if we used nuclear weapons in the 21st century WWIII, it wasn't used in a full-fledged exchange.
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Old May 24 2010, 10:36 PM   #310
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Re: Where did Spock go?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
As I said earlier, Spock "fixing" the timeline would essentially murder Kirk and replace him with the TOS version, alter the last 25 years of trillions of people and condemn Romulus and Remus to death in 2387.

Spock is not god. He doesn't have the right. STXIKirk has the same right to live as TOS Kirk had. The damage was already done by the time Spock arrived in the past.

All Spock could do was minimize further damage.
Hmm. As opposed to the countless number wiped out by erasing the TOS timeline?

But it doesn't matter because the TOS timeline wasn't wiped out because the Abramsverse isn't the original.
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Old May 24 2010, 10:37 PM   #311
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Re: Where did Spock go?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
As I said earlier, Spock "fixing" the timeline would essentially murder Kirk and replace him with the TOS version, alter the last 25 years of trillions of people and condemn Romulus and Remus to death in 2387.

Spock is not god. He doesn't have the right. STXIKirk has the same right to live as TOS Kirk had. The damage was already done by the time Spock arrived in the past.

All Spock could do was minimize further damage.
Spock is not changing the past as much as he is restoring it and the future.
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Old May 24 2010, 10:51 PM   #312
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Re: Where did Spock go?

If Spock uses time travel to take a large enough force to stop Nero before he destroyed Vulcan how does that change things drastically?
They could use the same technique of getting the Red Matter loose in the Narada before destroying it.
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Old May 24 2010, 10:58 PM   #313
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Re: Where did Spock go?

The whole slingshot around the sun to time travel business has to be forgotten by necessity in order to have dramatic consequences. Otherwise, they should have changed a lot of things post-"The Naked Time." The other alternative is that those who try to change history are frequently prevented from doing so by future timeships or some other agency. We really don't know if Spock tried to prevent Vulcan's destruction or not. The movie had to end, and that consequence had to stick in order for the galaxy to be an unpredictable place again.
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Old May 24 2010, 11:04 PM   #314
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Where did Spock go?

xortex wrote: View Post
KingDaniel wrote: View Post
As I said earlier, Spock "fixing" the timeline would essentially murder Kirk and replace him with the TOS version, alter the last 25 years of trillions of people and condemn Romulus and Remus to death in 2387.

Spock is not god. He doesn't have the right. STXIKirk has the same right to live as TOS Kirk had. The damage was already done by the time Spock arrived in the past.

All Spock could do was minimize further damage.
Spock is not changing the past as much as he is restoring it and the future.
"Restoring the future" at the cost of the lives of nuKirk and co.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Who's to say the 2387 of the alternate universe will be any less prosperous than the other? Although there is no Vulcan, there is the chance to save the people of Romulus and Remus this time. You all saw how much history had diverged in 25 years. What would the next 129 hold?
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Old May 24 2010, 11:19 PM   #315
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Where did Spock go?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
KingDaniel wrote: View Post
As I said earlier, Spock "fixing" the timeline would essentially murder Kirk and replace him with the TOS version, alter the last 25 years of trillions of people and condemn Romulus and Remus to death in 2387.

Spock is not god. He doesn't have the right. STXIKirk has the same right to live as TOS Kirk had. The damage was already done by the time Spock arrived in the past.

All Spock could do was minimize further damage.
Hmm. As opposed to the countless number wiped out by erasing the TOS timeline?

But it doesn't matter because the TOS timeline wasn't wiped out because the Abramsverse isn't the original.
If you include the future of the alternate timeline (which since we're playing time police we should) it's about the same amount of nonexistance/death on either side.

The alternate universe stems from the TOS one, starting in 2233. Your fanon isn't strong enough to change this.
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