RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,601
Posts: 5,424,774
Members: 24,810
Currently online: 385
Newest member: David Ellerman

TrekToday headlines

September Loot Crate Features Trek Surprise
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

USS Enterprise Miniature Out For Refit
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Comic Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Trek 3 Shooting Next Spring?
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek: Alien Domain Game Announced
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Red Shirt Diaries Episode Three
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Made Out Of Mudd Photonovel
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Takei Has Growth Removed
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Retro Review: Tears of the Prophets
By: Michelle on Sep 12

New Wizkids Attack Wing Ships
By: T'Bonz on Sep 12


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > TV & Media > Lost

Lost We're not the only forum on this board, and we all know it!

View Poll Results: What type of story resolution in LOST is more important to you?
It's all about the characters. 4 19.05%
The mythology and mystery of the Island of course! 1 4.76%
Both should be focused on, whether there is full resolution on each side or not. 9 42.86%
I WANT IT ALL! NOW! 4 19.05%
Let's just watch the final episode and get drunkl on DHARMA beer. It's been a great 6 years. 3 14.29%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Thread Tools
Old May 23 2010, 10:40 PM   #1
Zulu Romeo
is doing this now
 
Zulu Romeo's Avatar
 
Location: looming over the warp and woof of awesome
This season and this finale: one last thing to ponder...

I was reading some articles on the Net this evening about the forthcoming Finale, and this one raised an interesting point:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art..._or.html?cat=2

In all these years before the Lost finale, the fandom has been divided between mythology-centered fans, and character-centered fans. The show used to have a perfect balance between mythology and characters, but one side has often overshadowed the other over the years. In recent years, mythology has trumped character, particularly in the time travel season, yet that might not be the case in the final season.

If the show was not about characters, fewer people would care about the Lost finale, and it wouldn't be the event it is tonight. Failed Lost imitators have learned the hard way that even if they have a clearer mythology, it means nothing without the people. As such, the majority of fans could forgive a lack of answers, if the characters meet gripping, happy and sad ends instead.
I found this interesting. There does seem to be a focus more on checking as many answers as possible, sometimes at the expense of providing closure to some of the characters, especially this season, while previous seasons which have lacked the pressure to answer all the mysteries and questions have (quite rightly) therefore focused on telling great stories and depicting rich and varied characters (and Nikki and Paulo).

Which is more important to you in terms of telling the story of LOST: the rich and diverse characters, or the rich and diverse mythology?

I would have hoped that these two approaches to storytelling in LOST weren't mutually exclusive, but sometimes I can't help but agree with the article that this has been, and still is, the case. Or should they be? Can one tell a good story without compromising either mythology or character? Or are things inevitably going to be left out on both sides, with some characters having no resolution or a disappointing end, and many mysteries left unanswered, at the expense of the other thing?

Is it necessarily a bad thing that some things have no resolution, though? If the mystery was taken out of life, it would be very boring indeed. Some things still need their secrets, otherwise they would lose their power to inspire awe and fear very quickly. If every little detail in both areas of mythology and character was addressed, then we'd have no mystery, no reason to stick with it.

Just something to think about this evening. Enjoy the finale.
__________________
"In Germany, fear comes before sex... and if you're lucky, then a little bit later, an elf." -- Victoria Coren Mitchell

I continue to be Zion Ravescene...
Zulu Romeo is offline  
Old May 23 2010, 10:43 PM   #2
Temis the Vorta
Fleet Admiral
 
Temis the Vorta's Avatar
 
Location: Tatoinne
Re: This season and this finale: one last thing to ponder...

In all these years before the Lost finale, the fandom has been divided between mythology-centered fans, and character-centered fans.
Not me! I love both!

But the sad saga of the Lost imitators prove that the characters must come first. If the characters don't grab viewers, they aren't going to hang around for a convoluted mythology.

You also have to give them something good each episode, without waiting for elusive answers. A good action scene, some hot actor wearing next to nothing, some witty comic lines, a touching emotional scene - those are the elements that kept people watching in sufficient numbers to avoid cancellation.

PS, the era of the Lost imitators is not ending quite yet. NBC's The Event seems like yet another entry. I'll give it a shot like I gave all the others. Hopefully this time they've learned what they need to do in order to get the show to work. When Cuse & Lindelof called Lost a love story at heart, they revealed the secret of their success.
Temis the Vorta is offline  
Old May 23 2010, 10:47 PM   #3
Zulu Romeo
is doing this now
 
Zulu Romeo's Avatar
 
Location: looming over the warp and woof of awesome
Re: This season and this finale: one last thing to ponder...

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
But the sad saga of the Lost imitators prove that the characters must come first. If the characters don't grab viewers, they aren't going to hang around for a convoluted mythology.
That's what I didn't really like about Defying Gravity. That one seemed to sacrifice both character and mythology, and replace it with pillow talk and sex(ual tension).
__________________
"In Germany, fear comes before sex... and if you're lucky, then a little bit later, an elf." -- Victoria Coren Mitchell

I continue to be Zion Ravescene...
Zulu Romeo is offline  
Old May 24 2010, 12:38 AM   #4
startrekwatcher
Rear Admiral
 
Re: This season and this finale: one last thing to ponder...

Both mythology and characters should be resolved in satisfying ways but over the last few episodes I'd say the odds with mythology are not looking good--I'm sure it will wrap up one or two like Desmond and the exotic matter but not the boatload still out there.
startrekwatcher is offline  
Old May 24 2010, 01:19 AM   #5
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: This season and this finale: one last thing to ponder...

I will respond with another question:

What is this show about? Is it the story of a mysterious island? Is it about the age-old struggle between MiB and Jacob? Or is it the survivors of a plane crash?

For me, even though we've been introduced to a lot of new characters and new mysteries over the last 6 years, the story of LOST is, first and foremost, about the survivors of Oceanic Flight 815. I want to see what happens to them. That isn't to say that the Lost universe doesn't have more stories to tell, but this story is about the characters that we met in Season 1...and Desmond.

I would love it, however, if the creators someday do a series of "Lost Tales" (pun intended), that explore some of the Island's greater mysteries.
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is offline  
Old May 24 2010, 01:27 AM   #6
Capn Flukie
Fleet Admiral
 
Capn Flukie's Avatar
 
Location: Flukie
View Capn Flukie's Twitter Profile
Re: This season and this finale: one last thing to ponder...

Lost is a pizza with the works, not just a hunk of bread or some ground up tomatoes, or cheese bits, though all are delicious on their own.
__________________
I am an enigma, wrapped in a riddle, stuffed with wild mushrooms, and served on a bed of fresh greens.
Capn Flukie is offline  
Old May 24 2010, 08:47 AM   #7
Python Trek
Commodore
 
Location: West Consin, People's Republic of America
View Python Trek's Twitter Profile
Re: This season and this finale: one last thing to ponder...

I think that highly-paid professional television writers should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. I want interesting characters AND well-realized plots/mythologies.

Damn, I'm demanding! How dare I?
__________________
Insert Siggie Here..........
Python Trek is offline  
Old May 24 2010, 09:04 AM   #8
Ryan8bit
Commodore
 
Ryan8bit's Avatar
 
Location: St. Paul, MN
Re: This season and this finale: one last thing to ponder...

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
the story of LOST is, first and foremost, about the survivors of Oceanic Flight 815. I want to see what happens to them.
See, this is what I don't get about these characters-only claims. Essentially these characters and what they do is now tied into the mythology, so the rest of the mythology becomes important by extension.

For example, Saving Private Ryan takes place during WW2, but you don't need to know about anything beyond Normandy, who the enemy is, and what their mission is. But the reason for that is because the mythology is already a given. In the case of a complete unknown, more elaboration may be required for most who are unfamiliar with its workings (or can't just look it up). Combine that with the show presenting itself as mythology driven and it's clear that there needs to be a balanced focus on both. Where that balance lies becomes the most difficult part to achieve.
Ryan8bit is offline  
Old May 27 2010, 07:25 AM   #9
Hober Mallow
Commodore
 
Location: The planet Terminus, site of the Encyclopedia Foundation on the periphery of the galaxy
Re: This season and this finale: one last thing to ponder...

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
See, this is what I don't get about these characters-only claims. Essentially these characters and what they do is now tied into the mythology, so the rest of the mythology becomes important by extension.
Fan point of view is a big part of it. For instance, who built the ruins on the island? To some fans, the question hasn't been answered at all, to others it has. To some, it's enough to know that the ancient peoples have been coming to the island for centuries and obviously saw the island as a divine place. To other fans, no answer could be thorough enough. The thing you have to ask yourself is what, realistically, can our characters actually learn the answers themselves in a believeable way? Are they going to stop trying to survive or fleeing the smoke monster to go on an archeological dig or translate hieroglyphs? Of course not.

The island has meant something different to all the different peoples who discovered it. That's all I really need to know. The show to me isn't about what makes the island apparently magical, it's how do we as human beings react to that? Do we consider it divine and build monuments and temples like the ancient builders? Do we think of it as a place of scientific possibilities like the Dharma initiative? Do we see it as simply an island to exploit for military purposes as the U. S. military did in the 1950s? Do we see it as an affirmation of faith in a higher purpose, as John Locke did? Or do we see it as a direct attack on our sense of free will as Jack did?

Those questions are much more interesting to me than "Where did all the hairbrushes go?"

Just my two cents.

Combine that with the show presenting itself as mythology driven and it's clear that there needs to be a balanced focus on both. Where that balance lies becomes the most difficult part to achieve.
The show has never been "mythology driven." Hell, for the first three seasons, half of every single episode is nothing but a character study of a single main character.
__________________
"Beep... beep!" --Captain Pike
Hober Mallow is offline  
Old May 27 2010, 07:33 AM   #10
startrekwatcher
Rear Admiral
 
Re: This season and this finale: one last thing to ponder...

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
See, this is what I don't get about these characters-only claims. Essentially these characters and what they do is now tied into the mythology, so the rest of the mythology becomes important by extension.
Fan point of view is a big part of it. For instance, who built the ruins on the island? To some fans, the question hasn't been answered at all, to others it has. To some, it's enough to know that the ancient peoples have been coming to the island for centuries and obviously saw the island as a divine place. To other fans, no answer could be thorough enough. The thing you have to ask yourself is what, realistically, can our characters actually learn the answers themselves in a believeable way? Are they going to stop trying to survive or fleeing the smoke monster to go on an archeological dig or translate hieroglyphs? Of course not.
No, but as the show has repeatedly demonstrated there are entertaining and effective ways to fill the audience in on things that the characters never learn of or would look deeper into.
Combine that with the show presenting itself as mythology driven and it's clear that there needs to be a balanced focus on both. Where that balance lies becomes the most difficult part to achieve.
The show has never been "mythology driven." Hell, for the first three seasons, half of every single episode is nothing but a character study of a single main character.
Season one was character-driven. Season two was a mess. S3-5 were much more plot-driven with a lot of mythology focus. Even Lindelof and Cuse admitted that in an interview that I was reading today. Those years there was so much going on there wasn't time for much character focus.
startrekwatcher is offline  
Old May 27 2010, 03:36 PM   #11
Scout101
Admiral
 
Scout101's Avatar
 
Location: Rhode Island, USA
Re: This season and this finale: one last thing to ponder...

It was character driven at first, but moved more and more towards the mythology. And unfortunately, when you have the characters doing stupid or out-of-character things solely because of the plot/mythology, it would help to have that mythology thought out and make a little sense. If there's no reason for the characters to be doing what they're doing, it doesn't hang together very well...
__________________
Perhaps, if I am very lucky, the feeble efforts of my lifetime will someday be noticed and maybe, in some small way, they will be acknowledged as the greatest works of genius ever created by man. ~Jack Handey
STO: @JScout33
Scout101 is offline  
Old May 27 2010, 04:22 PM   #12
Ryan8bit
Commodore
 
Ryan8bit's Avatar
 
Location: St. Paul, MN
Re: This season and this finale: one last thing to ponder...

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
To some fans, the question hasn't been answered at all, to others it has.
Actually, the distinction should be that there are no answers to certain questions, and some do and some don't care.

To some, it's enough to know that the ancient peoples have been coming to the island for centuries and obviously saw the island as a divine place. To other fans, no answer could be thorough enough.
Why is this issue always presented as so black and white? People have different levels of what they'll accept, and mine is that I can be satisfied. I was several times with some of the other mysteries.

Just because some people weren't 100% gung ho on the loose ends doesn't mean they can't be satisfied.

Are they going to stop trying to survive or fleeing the smoke monster to go on an archeological dig or translate hieroglyphs? Of course not.
This is another common argument that makes no sense. Why does an explanation always need to be tied down to tedium? It could easily be worked into any story, or a story could even revolve around it. If something caught people's interest, a story surrounding it may interest as well.

Those questions are much more interesting to me than "Where did all the hairbrushes go?"
Another argument I often see that makes no sense. People who care about hairbrushes are clearly obsessing because that isn't at all integral to the overall story. Why is this example or others like it always used when people like myself aren't arguing over trivial little things? We're arguing over things like the meaning of the island and the light. Major stuff that drives the characters.

A big question I had was why Sayid came back to life, because it's integral to the character story. The Others at the temple seemed so surprised by it, Sayid didn't know what happened, and it made him unable to feel anything. And then we see this character act in very strange ways for reasons we don't understand which is all a result of his resurrection. At that point, the mystery is very much intertwined with his character, and going without an explanation is the shoddiest way to get a character from A to B. In fact, it completely went against his character's development, and yet somehow in the end he was still able to pull it back together?

This is important character stuff, not trivialities, and there are many more examples just like this.

The show has never been "mythology driven." Hell, for the first three seasons, half of every single episode is nothing but a character study of a single main character.
And the mythology drives those characters into those recollections. Without the mythology, there is no reason for the characters to do what they did. They are closely intertwined.

I'll never understand this idea that people pull apart one aspect or another. You might have some saying it's all characters or some saying it's all mythology/plot, but both of those statements are just flat out wrong. Good storytelling will have an emphasis on both and will strike the right balance between the two.
Ryan8bit is offline  
Old May 28 2010, 07:03 AM   #13
Hober Mallow
Commodore
 
Location: The planet Terminus, site of the Encyclopedia Foundation on the periphery of the galaxy
Re: This season and this finale: one last thing to ponder...

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
I'll never understand this idea that people pull apart one aspect or another. You might have some saying it's all characters or some saying it's all mythology/plot, but both of those statements are just flat out wrong. Good storytelling will have an emphasis on both and will strike the right balance between the two.
You talk about plot and character like they're mutually exclusive. They aren't two equal and opposite aspects of story. Plot is merely what happens next. Characters without plot don't do anything. Plot without character is just a recounting of events about as exciting as a high school history textbook timeline. A story is a character with a goal who does something. A successful story isn't written by trying to take ingredients and "balance" them together like you're making a soup. You just need a character with a clear goal who drives the events by action or inaction. The "balance" finds itself based on the story you're trying to tell.
__________________
"Beep... beep!" --Captain Pike
Hober Mallow is offline  
Old May 28 2010, 03:30 PM   #14
Ryan8bit
Commodore
 
Ryan8bit's Avatar
 
Location: St. Paul, MN
Re: This season and this finale: one last thing to ponder...

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
You talk about plot and character like they're mutually exclusive.
I dunno, maybe you should go back and read the part where I said there needs to be both, which is mutually inclusive.
Ryan8bit is offline  
Old May 28 2010, 03:35 PM   #15
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: This season and this finale: one last thing to ponder...

There needs to be both, and there was both, but that doesn't mean they need to be of equal importance. At the end of the day, if you have to choose one or the other to wrap up, I choose characters (at least for this show).

Could the writers have done a better job explaining the mythology? Yes, but they chose not to. Some people call it a cop-out. Other people call it lazy writing. And there are people like me that just don't care. I thought the story ended nicely for the characters, and at the end of the day, they are the things I care most about.
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Tags
carlton, damon, lost, polar bear

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:39 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.