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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old May 19 2010, 12:13 PM   #46
kkozoriz1
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Re: The Children of Kings

Known is one thing although the impression from TNG is that they are a recent contact. Number One was accessing their database. That's a bit more than knowing their name and what they look like.
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Old May 19 2010, 02:45 PM   #47
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Re: The Children of Kings

"Encounter at Farpoint" and "The Last Outpost" seem to vary so far as the Federation's knowledge of the Ferengi. "EaF" makes it sound as though they've been known for some time, given Picard's remark about them finding the Denebians as tasty as their past associates (though that could be chalked up to rumors, "legends," tall stories, and so on). "TLO" definitely makes it sound like this is a relatively new contact, though.
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Old May 19 2010, 11:17 PM   #48
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Re: The Children of Kings

It's almost sort of a moot point regarding the Ferengi in this book. Since it's pretty much in it's own continuity, it could very well be that the first official contact between the Federation and the Ferengi happened more than a century prior to "The Last Outpost" here. By the time Picard ultimately encounters them, the Ferengi could be as well known as the Klingons (just to use an example).
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Old May 19 2010, 11:38 PM   #49
kkozoriz1
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Re: The Children of Kings

Exactly. It's not a Jeffrey Hunter Pike Novel. It MAY be a Bruce Greenwood Pike novel. It may even be a different Pike altogether.
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Old May 19 2010, 11:49 PM   #50
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Re: The Children of Kings

^Well, it's not exactly Abramsverse, since the '09 movie showed the Enterprise's first mission. Though maybe it could work as a loose prequel to the Abrams movie if you substituted a different ship for the Enterprise.
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Old May 20 2010, 02:36 AM   #51
kkozoriz1
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Re: The Children of Kings

Or, in the Abramsverse had an earlier Enterprise that wasn't a Constitution class. Was it ever refereed to as Constitution class or by NCC-1701? Either way, it's not Prime Universe.
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Old May 20 2010, 07:15 AM   #52
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Re: The Children of Kings

kkozoriz1 wrote: View Post
Or, in the Abramsverse had an earlier Enterprise that wasn't a Constitution class. Was it ever refereed to as Constitution class or by NCC-1701? Either way, it's not Prime Universe.
With the exception of 'Black Snow', I saw nothing that precluded this from taking place in the Prime universe. Even then I thought the author attempted to make it wash with 'Balance of Terror'.
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Old May 20 2010, 12:40 PM   #53
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Re: The Children of Kings

BillJ wrote: View Post
With the exception of 'Black Snow', I saw nothing that precluded this from taking place in the Prime universe.
As stated, there's the reference to consulting the Ferengi database. And there are some slight differences in the crew makeup -- Pitcairn as chief engineer rather than transporter chief, Garison as a lieutenant instead of a chief petty officer, Colt already serving as Pike's yeoman before "The Cage" -- though those could be chalked up to differences in interpretation.

And the whole Black Snow/cloaking device thing is a pretty big exception. "Balance of Terror" showed Spock treating cloaking tech as something new and largely theoretical, something he hadn't encountered before. True, ENT has established that some form of cloaking tech existed more than a century sooner, but that isn't irreconcilable with Spock having no direct, personal experience with the tech.

At the very least, TCoK differs from the Romulan story in Seven Deadly Sins on the chronology and origins of Klingon cloaking technology.
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Old May 20 2010, 02:46 PM   #54
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Re: The Children of Kings

Christopher wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
With the exception of 'Black Snow', I saw nothing that precluded this from taking place in the Prime universe.
As stated, there's the reference to consulting the Ferengi database. And there are some slight differences in the crew makeup -- Pitcairn as chief engineer rather than transporter chief, Garison as a lieutenant instead of a chief petty officer, Colt already serving as Pike's yeoman before "The Cage" -- though those could be chalked up to differences in interpretation.

And the whole Black Snow/cloaking device thing is a pretty big exception. "Balance of Terror" showed Spock treating cloaking tech as something new and largely theoretical, something he hadn't encountered before. True, ENT has established that some form of cloaking tech existed more than a century sooner, but that isn't irreconcilable with Spock having no direct, personal experience with the tech.

At the very least, TCoK differs from the Romulan story in Seven Deadly Sins on the chronology and origins of Klingon cloaking technology.
I think the Ferengi database isn't an issue. The later shows were never consistent as to what was known about the Ferengi when.

Were Pitcairn and Garison ever given names in The Cage? I've seen them listed in the transcripts as characters but never referred to by name on screen.



Colt does throw a wrench in things. Which is weird because she doesn't really serve a purpose that required the character to be Colt.

Haven't read Seven Deadly Sins... haven't read much in the way of Trek books in a while.
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Old May 20 2010, 03:02 PM   #55
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Re: The Children of Kings

Well, I guess it's open to individual interpretation, and I think that was kind of the point -- to tell a story that isn't definitively bound to a given continuity.
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Old May 20 2010, 04:16 PM   #56
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Re: The Children of Kings

Christopher wrote: View Post
And the whole Black Snow/cloaking device thing is a pretty big exception. "Balance of Terror" showed Spock treating cloaking tech as something new and largely theoretical, something he hadn't encountered before. True, ENT has established that some form of cloaking tech existed more than a century sooner, but that isn't irreconcilable with Spock having no direct, personal experience with the tech.
I don't know if this'll seem like a nitpick, but didn't you say before (back when we just had a back-cover blurb) that the cloaking thing needn't be a violation of continuity, since the cloak seen here could've just been obsolete by the time of TOS (or something to that effect)?
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Old May 20 2010, 07:18 PM   #57
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Re: The Children of Kings

^I'm not talking about the cloaking technology itself, I'm talking about Spock's personal experience with it. "Balance of Terror" gave me the impression that he'd never encountered cloaking tech before or thought about it much, since he described it as merely "theoretically possible." I think if he'd actually encountered cloaking technology (of any sort) a dozen or so years earlier, he would've spoken more authoritatively about it.
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Old May 20 2010, 08:02 PM   #58
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Re: The Children of Kings

Christopher wrote: View Post
Well, I guess it's open to individual interpretation, and I think that was kind of the point -- to tell a story that isn't definitively bound to a given continuity.
My only confusion is that Dave Stern describes it as a "prequel" to Star Trek 2009. It's the only continuity that the story doesn't fit with in some way.
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Old May 20 2010, 10:57 PM   #59
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Re: The Children of Kings

Stern may like to think his book is a prequel to Star Trek XI, but even by his own admission didn't feel the need to be tied down to any one continuity of Trek with this book. IMO, he combined aspects of both the prime and alternate universes and added or altered a few bits of his own...
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Old May 20 2010, 11:08 PM   #60
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Re: The Children of Kings

^Maybe he meant it was more of a spiritual prequel -- i.e. readers who didn't care that much about continuity details could choose to imagine it as a previous adventure of the Bruce Greenwood Pike and the Zachary Quinto Spock. Though in that sense it could also work as a spiritual prequel to "The Cage."
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