RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,185
Posts: 5,436,094
Members: 24,947
Currently online: 602
Newest member: CaptainJaymez

TrekToday headlines

Trek Screenwriter Washington D.C. Appearance
By: T'Bonz on Oct 23

Two Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Oct 22

Pine In New Skit
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

Stewart In Holiday Film
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Yelchin In New Indie Thriller
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 17 2010, 09:42 AM   #106
TOS Purist
Commander
 
TOS Purist's Avatar
 
Location: TOS Era
Send a message via AIM to TOS Purist Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to TOS Purist
Re: Where did Spock go?

StarryEyed wrote: View Post
you are confusing this nuTrek with real Star Trek.
I'm quoting that awesome statement, if you don't mind.
__________________
All your Trek are belong to non-canon - except for TOS!
TOS Purist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17 2010, 11:51 AM   #107
F. King Daniel
Admiral
 
F. King Daniel's Avatar
 
Location: King Daniel Into Darkness
Re: Where did Spock go?

I still don't hear anyone "proving" to me that TOS is all set in the same universe. The same circumstancial evidence used against STXI works the other way too.

Kirk's middle initial, Spock's uniform colour, the uniforms in general, the bridge crew and the Enterprise interior and exterior design are wrong in the "Where No Man..." universe.

Shuttles clearly don't exist in "The Enemy Within" universe.

Antimatter, in other Treks known as starship fuel, threatened to destroy the universe in "The Alternative Factor" universe.

TOS is 200 years ahead of today in the "Space Seed" universe, and 900 in "The Squire of Gothos" universe.

Lasers and Time Warp drive are on the Enterprise in "The Cage" universe.

Photon Torpedoes don't exist and phasers act like torpedoes in the "Balance of Terror" universe.

If all these obvious contradictions and altered premises can co-exist in the same universe, then it can easily be that universe's Spock who falls though a black hole and watches Vulcan die in STXI.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3

Last edited by F. King Daniel; May 17 2010 at 03:59 PM.
F. King Daniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17 2010, 05:28 PM   #108
THE_FETT
Lieutenant Commander
 
THE_FETT's Avatar
 
Location: LOCATOR JAMMED
Re: Where did Spock go?

There are many problems with the conclusions of the original post. For one, I don't think we would know the full effects that ENT's Temporal Cold War had on the timeline. That concept really makes it impossible to come to any conclusions of any substantial worth regarding anything happening in the new movie.

I'd also have to agree with KingDaniel. If continuity errors indicate alternate universes, then the same principle must consistently hold true throughout the ST run. One cannot rationalize continuity errors because the argument being made accepts only that information presented onscreen as being legitimate.

So, following the logic of the original post, the ST series hops around from alternate universe to alternate universe and there is no way to tell which universe is the "real" universe without arbitrarily assigning the attribute- but this can't be done because this is just another form of rationalization which is based on evidence not presented onscreen and which is therefore insubstantial evidence.

To me, the new movie encapsulates ST well in this regards- it is riddled with continuity errors and therefore fits in rather nicely with the rest of Star Trek.

Speaking facetiously, I would be more open to "alternate universe reboot" theory if the were no continuity errors in the movie at all; since a ST with no continuity errors would be an alien ST !
__________________
I'm just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe.
THE_FETT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17 2010, 06:20 PM   #109
A beaker full of death
Vice Admiral
 
A beaker full of death's Avatar
 
Re: Where did Spock go?

See, this is what happens when filmmakers don't have the balls to just make something their own. Instead of just making his own version of Star Trek, Abrams bent over backwards to appease the continuity freaks (an impossible task) and shoehorn everything into a consistent multiverse. Why? An RSC production of Henry V doesn't have to explain why it isn't using the same costumes as a Joe Papp production of Henry IV part I from 20 years earlier.
Abrams's plan was doomed to failure. All this convoluted time travel nonsense to try to explain away inconsistencies he shouldn't have worried about bogged down his film in silliness. There will always be those who (rightly, since this is how he chose to go) point out the inconsistencies in Chekov's age, in the state of the technology, in the fact that everyone in his multiverse is just plain dumber than they were in the TOS universe....
He should have just made his own big, dumb, loud, fun movie without all this garbage.
__________________
"shall not be infringed" is naturally open to infringements of all kinds, because shut up and think of the children.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/...#ixzz2ImW0V3GV
A beaker full of death is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17 2010, 07:03 PM   #110
Joker
Vice Admiral
 
Joker's Avatar
 
Location: The North
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Joker
Re: Where did Spock go?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
elton wrote: View Post
... it's fiction ... we have utter shit ... it is dumb as fuck ... Don't like it ... sit and gratify yourself ... a fucking fantasy ... you need to hear that shit ... you have issues ...
( giggle .giggle . giggle . giggle .giggle . giggle . giggle .giggle . giggle )
__________________
My name is Pain. You belong to me.
Joker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17 2010, 07:15 PM   #111
Smiley
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Chandler, AZ
Re: Where did Spock go?

If it came down to having the same basic story of Star Trek XI with or without Leonard Nimoy, I know which one I would choose. That is a major reason why the universe-hopping aspect of the movie was a good choice. It also makes it clear that the original, slightly inconsistent universe of TOS-ENT is still out there, just missing Romulus and Remus.

Besides the obvious authorial intent that Nimoy was playing the original Spock character, there is nothing he says to Kirk on Delta Vega that cannot be explained away. In fact, I'm sure Timo has done this already someplace. My simple explanation is that Spock wanted Kirk to use his leadership abilities as early as possible, and anything he told Kirk was simply a means to that end. Of course, I tend to get less hung up on the inconsistencies as time goes by and simply accept that the creators are human. Whether they just messed up or want to tell a story that requires something besides slavish devotion to 40 years of continuity is beside the point.
Smiley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17 2010, 07:43 PM   #112
Dukhat
Commodore
 
Dukhat's Avatar
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
Re: Where did Spock go?

Okay, this argument is getting downright silly.

Here we have the OP, who is a self-proclaimed TOS purist, who for one reason or another simply cannot accept any Star Trek productions past TMP as "legitimate, official" Star Trek, trying to rationalize how this new movie does not work within his own personal beliefs.

See how silly arguing with this person is? He will never, ever accept anything that doesn't fit his own take on ST, even if it's the actual Trek producers who are calling the shots. That's why I told him that he can believe whatever he wants to believe, if it makes him happy. It's pointless to argue with him because he's already made up his mind no matter how flimsy his evidence is.

Now I'm not putting the OP down. Warped9, I've read many of your posts, and you seem to be a pretty smart guy who knows his shit about Star Trek. But trying to have a logical, rational discussion with someone who cannot think outside the box in regards to post-TOS Trek is a meaningless endeavor, and you'll find that most people are not going to agree with your line of thinking, especially in regards to this post about the new film. So as far as I'm concerned, we'll agree to disagree.

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
Abrams's plan was doomed to failure.
Excuse me? Star Trek '09 was a huge success, making the most money of any Trek film ever. How is that a "failure?"
__________________
“Don’t believe everything you read on the internet.”
– Benjamin Franklin

Last edited by Boo-khat; May 17 2010 at 07:57 PM.
Dukhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17 2010, 08:28 PM   #113
TOS Purist
Commander
 
TOS Purist's Avatar
 
Location: TOS Era
Send a message via AIM to TOS Purist Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to TOS Purist
Re: Where did Spock go?

Dukhat wrote: View Post
the OP, who is a self-proclaimed TOS purist, who for one reason or another simply cannot accept any Star Trek productions past TMP as "legitimate, official" Star Trek, [...] He will never, ever accept anything that doesn't fit his own take on ST.
No, Warped9 would accept newer forms of Star Trek as canon, but only if they bothered to make themselves internally consistent instead of constantly ignoring or rewriting TOS. And he's not the only TOS purist around here...

Dukhat wrote: View Post
Excuse me? Star Trek '09 was a huge success, making the most money of any Trek film ever. How is that a "failure?"
He doesn't mean failing FINANCIALLY. He meant it failed in terms of adhering to what little bits of canon it should have adhered to. Read his post! I'm tired of people saying that ST09 failed for this or that reason, and then someone else barges in and yells "IT DIDN'T FAIL IT MADE A LOT OF MONEY LOL" when nobody was talking about box office returns.
__________________
All your Trek are belong to non-canon - except for TOS!
TOS Purist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17 2010, 08:43 PM   #114
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Where did Spock go?

^^ That isn't quite right. If ST09 had been a real reboot (which I still accept it as no matter what others claim) then it could stink to high heaven (which it does anyway) and I couldn't care less because it's totally divorced of TOS (which it actually is despite what others claim).

A reboot done well that emulated the best aspects of TOS even though not in anyway connected to it could have still been enjoyable. But instead we got a loud and hectic pile of nonsense that bears barely a passing resemble to the Star Trek I care about. I can't put a finer point on it: it's a stupid film.

But setting all that aside I'm looking at the claims this is connected to the original universe and that's where we part the ways. It bugs the film's fans somethin' ugly that I won't accept it. I'm just going by what's actually on the screen, but because I don't swallow this whole they're pissed about it. All they want to hear are the cheery little signs of glee of uncritical fans.

So I think TOS is the real and best Star Trek. Hello? It's THE ORIGINAL SERIES. It can't help but be real Star Trek because it established everything. And if I use it as the baseline by which I assess anything that follows then what's wrong with that? What unwritten law have I broken?

How come no one gives any grief to the fans who like only one of the other series? Are strictly ENT fans or strictly TNG or strictly DS9 or strictly VOY fans ever hassled?

I couldn't care less how much fucking money ST09 makes or how many people like it--nowhere is it written that I have to like it as well.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 17 2010, 08:58 PM   #115
Dukhat
Commodore
 
Dukhat's Avatar
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
Re: Where did Spock go?

Well, so much for me bothering to add any more to this topic...
__________________
“Don’t believe everything you read on the internet.”
– Benjamin Franklin
Dukhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17 2010, 09:01 PM   #116
Smiley
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Chandler, AZ
Re: Where did Spock go?

If a person doesn't like the latest movie or TV show, that's one thing. However, it should not make a difference whether or not it is viewed as an official continuation of the show. A lot of people think The Final Frontier is a mostly stupid movie, but we still accept that it is an official continuation of TOS that probably happened in some way in the fictional construct that is Star Trek. It has enough discrepancies that it must take place in a different universe by Warped9's reasoning, but for most, it is Trek enough to be counted.

Something that hasn't been touched on in this thread is the mythic quality of Star Trek. I think that it has been around long enough that the main characters and universe have surpassed their roots in the public consciousness. The Enterprise, Kirk, Spock, warp drive, and photon torpedoes are like King Arthur, Camelot, the Round Table, Merlin, and Lancelot. If Merlin travelled to an alternate universe and found King Francis (or whomever) as ruler of Camelot instead of King Arthur, people would know that Arthur belongs in that spot and want him to fulfill his destiny. They may not know or care that he should be a servant for five more years before claiming his destiny according to a previous timeline. To me, Abrams is merely updating a myth for a new generation while still paying respect to the previous version of the story.
Smiley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17 2010, 09:06 PM   #117
Ronald Held
Rear Admiral
 
Location: On the USS Sovereign
Re: Where did Spock go?

Someone explain to me why Spock Prime could not, via the method of choice, go bakc in time far enough to save Vulcan and defeat Nero slightly earlier? He would not "erase" the JJverse, and probably make little global changes to the rest of the JJverse between the destuction of Vulcan to the defeat of the Narada.
Ronald Held is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17 2010, 09:09 PM   #118
F. King Daniel
Admiral
 
F. King Daniel's Avatar
 
Location: King Daniel Into Darkness
Re: Where did Spock go?

TOS may be "the original" and "the best" but it will never, ever be consistant with itself, let alone it's sequels and prequels.

Thus Warped9's argument is a faliure. It's the pot calling the kettle black.

He can't even prove it's the same Spock from episode to episode of TOS.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
F. King Daniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17 2010, 09:23 PM   #119
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Where did Spock go?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
TOS may be "the original" and "the best" but it will never, ever be consistant with itself, let alone it's sequels and prequels.

Thus Warped9's argument is a faliure. It's the pot calling the kettle black.

He can't even prove it's the same Spock from episode to episode of TOS.


So many like to trot out the irreconcilable inconsistencies of TOS that are supposedly the size of asteroids. Funny, while I can see some occasional little ones I don't see anything that can't be explained within the context of the series. The only one that comes across as a bit annoying is that the stardates of two first season episodes overlap some.

And so I don't have to prove it's the same Spock from episode to episode. The writers and the actor were smart enough to keep him consistent.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 17 2010, 09:33 PM   #120
Dukhat
Commodore
 
Dukhat's Avatar
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
Re: Where did Spock go?

TOS Purist wrote: View Post
I'm tired of people saying that ST09 failed for this or that reason, and then someone else barges in and yells "IT DIDN'T FAIL IT MADE A LOT OF MONEY LOL" when nobody was talking about box office returns.
But box office returns are a consideration (especially after the stinker that was Nemesis), because it proves that a lot of people still love Star Trek despite the downhill slope it had taken in recent years, if 250 million dollars worth of ticket holders was any indication.

Warped9 wrote: View Post
And so I don't have to prove it's the same Spock from episode to episode. The writers and the actor were smart enough to keep him consistent.
In one episode, Spock smiles.

In another episode, he makes a completely tasteless remark to Yeoman Rand about Kirk's sexual prowess.

In TMP, he cries without any external influence controlling him to do so.


Consistent?
__________________
“Don’t believe everything you read on the internet.”
– Benjamin Franklin
Dukhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
spock

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:04 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.