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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old May 16 2010, 11:54 PM   #91
StarryEyed
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Re: Where did Spock go?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Fans have come up with excuses for the continuity glitches in STXI just as they did decades ago with TOS, TMP, TNG and the rest.
Indeed. But have you heard the phrase, "The straw that broke the camel's back?"

Warped9 definitely has a weak back here. But I'm the same age he is (5-27-59). I had no problem with creative excuses all the way through DS9. Voyager started me on some serious back pain that took some (figurative) therapy to get through. The vertebrae finally gave out at the end of season 2 of Enterprise. There was hope for recovery but Star Trek XI was the equivalent of a light saber through the spine. There is no way I am willing to go there.

Temis is glad Star Trek isn't dead? I have news for her: It's undead! We didn't get Star Trek back. We got a walking, rotting corpse in disguise. I'd rather put the corpse to rest and cherish and celebrate all the wonderful stuff it gave us rather than have its name soiled by this filthy succubus.
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Old May 16 2010, 11:55 PM   #92
Duncan MacLeod
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Re: Where did Spock go?

Shazam! wrote: View Post
Worlds in his universe.

Besides, who's to say that he didn't go off looking for a way to undo it all and just didn't tell anyone?

What makes you think that would matter enough that he would be able to turn his back on that many lives being exterminated?

As for a way prevent it, the simplest would be to use the warp speed breakaway factor to take Enterprise back to the point in time when Nero emerges in the past and blow him to hell with a spread of 24th century quantum torpedoes. Which I'm reasonably sure Spock should be able to fabricate.
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Old May 17 2010, 12:02 AM   #93
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Re: Where did Spock go?

StarryEyed wrote: View Post
Temis is glad Star Trek isn't dead? I have news for her: It's undead! We didn't get Star Trek back. We got a walking, rotting corpse in disguise. I'd rather put the corpse to rest and cherish and celebrate all the wonderful stuff it gave us rather than have its name soiled by this filthy succubus.
We need another reality check, I think.

Star Trek is whatever the writers make it. Not you, not I, not the Warped fellow in the corner... it's fiction. It changes.

That's why we have utter shit like Spock's Brain, Catspaw and the rest of the crap episodes in with the supposedly superior Trek produced in the years where it was apparently "pure". Star Trek has never been anything more than pretty good entertainment for those reasons. A lot of it is dumb as fuck. Some of it was clever. Spock changed as it went on. All the characters did. The new movie is the latest revision of something that's been revised countless times already.

Don't like it? Then dump on it, move along and find something else that you do like. Don't sit and gratify yourself with a fucking fantasy that Real Spock is still out there somewhere, and that the new movie had an imposter. If you need to hear that shit, you have issues.
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Old May 17 2010, 12:12 AM   #94
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Where did Spock go?

I said this on the other thread, but here goes: Spock doesn't have the right to undo 25 years of everyone's lives. It would effectively be the murder of Kirk and co, replacing them with their TOS versions.

Even if he somehow went back and stopped the Nerada in 2233 (which they barely managed in 2258, and another attempt could lead to utter disaster), he may save Vulcan, but at the expense of Romulus and Remus who are fated to die a firey death in the original timeline. With the foreknowledge of events the STXI people have, those deaths (which likely exceed the six billion Vulcans) may well be avoided in alternate 2387.

Would Vulcans want their world saved at the expense of two others? Even those of their enemies? I think not.
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Old May 17 2010, 12:26 AM   #95
StarryEyed
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Re: Where did Spock go?

elton wrote: View Post
StarryEyed wrote: View Post
Temis is glad Star Trek isn't dead? I have news for her: It's undead! We didn't get Star Trek back. We got a walking, rotting corpse in disguise. I'd rather put the corpse to rest and cherish and celebrate all the wonderful stuff it gave us rather than have its name soiled by this filthy succubus.
We need another reality check, I think.

Don't sit and gratify yourself with a fucking fantasy that Real Spock is still out there somewhere, and that the new movie had an imposter.
You're confusing me with Waped9. I don't worry about who the "Spock" character in Star Trek XI was. I simply don't accept the movie as Star Trek. As for a "fucking fantasy that real Spock is out there," are you nuts? NONE of it is real, obviously. Therefor, we are all free to have our own Star Trek universe, including what we we like and discarding what we don't like. If you see differently than it is you who have issues.

On the practical side, us Galaxy Quest nerds have filled the pockets of CBS (or whoever owns Star Trek now) and has made the continued production of these movies possible. I'm one of those losers who has most of Trek on DVD (except for Enterprise and this latest abortion) but I'll not be spending another cent on this franchise as long as they go in this direction. I'll be voting with my wallet.
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Old May 17 2010, 12:37 AM   #96
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Re: Where did Spock go?

StarryEyed wrote: View Post
elton wrote: View Post
StarryEyed wrote: View Post
Temis is glad Star Trek isn't dead? I have news for her: It's undead! We didn't get Star Trek back. We got a walking, rotting corpse in disguise. I'd rather put the corpse to rest and cherish and celebrate all the wonderful stuff it gave us rather than have its name soiled by this filthy succubus.
We need another reality check, I think.

Don't sit and gratify yourself with a fucking fantasy that Real Spock is still out there somewhere, and that the new movie had an imposter.
You're confusing me with Waped9. I don't worry about who the "Spock" character in Star Trek XI was. I simply don't accept the movie as Star Trek. As for a "fucking fantasy that real Spock is out there," are you nuts? NONE of it is real, obviously. Therefor, we are all free to have our own Star Trek universe, including what we we like and discarding what we don't like. If you see differently than it is you who have issues.

On the practical side, us Galaxy Quest nerds have filled the pockets of CBS (or whoever owns Star Trek now) and has made the continued production of these movies possible. I'm one of those losers who has most of Trek on DVD (except for Enterprise and this latest abortion) but I'll not be spending another cent on this franchise as long as they go in this direction. I'll be voting with my wallet.
Most of that wasn't directed at you, as you observed.

No, I don't have issues... I understand that Star Trek is a franchise that will go wherever the hell its writers take it, without my consent. If I don't like it, I'll call it "crap" and go fishing.

Abrams' job right now is to produce Star Trek. He's doing that. Others have done, no doubt others will do. We've been here before, and we'll be here again. Abrams decided to write Spock into the movie as a superficial bridge from the old stuff to the new stuff. That was nice. Spock can have a half-brother, inner-eyelids, mind-control, telepathy, super-strength, pon farr, sensitivity to kryptonite and a dozen other contrived attributes that had never been seen before and were never seen again.

Now, Spock was in the new movie too. What a guy. He goes everywhere.

Of all the incredible things he's done, including dying and being resurrected, mind-melding with V'Ger's electrical outlet, and surviving having his brain removed while being remote-controlled by a small box with 8 buttons, this one is pretty tame by comparison.

There really is nothing to see here except pitiful fanboy desperation and frustration.
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Old May 17 2010, 01:04 AM   #97
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Re: Where did Spock go?

I started a discussion and laid out my reasoning that my conclusion is founded on. All that came back repeatedly was, "No, you're wrong. That's not what they meant." Well anyone can scream the sky is green, but a simple look out the window verifies that it's actually blue. But you can keep believing it's green by choosing not to look out the window, but the sky remains blue no matter what you ignore and want to believe.

My back started to give way during TNG. That's when my eyes really started to open. From there I started seeing things differently and all the way back to the '80s films. Then DS9 and VOY and finally ENT make it so I can't stand it anymore.

ST09 is the inevitable result of how Trek has evolved over the past fifteen to twenty years.
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Old May 17 2010, 01:08 AM   #98
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Re: Where did Spock go?

elton wrote: View Post
Of all the incredible things he's done, including dying and being resurrected, mind-melding with V'Ger's electrical outlet, and surviving having his brain removed while being remote-controlled by a small box with 8 buttons, this one is pretty tame by comparison.
Yeah, they have put Spock through some shit, haven't they?

I would argue though that the Star Trek saga as a whole is at an all-time low. It would have been better if they had declared nuTrek a clean reboot as they did with the Bond franchise. I still wouldn't have contributed a cent to it because I hate it but I wouldn't feel as if they had violated the original Star Trek canon by sucking a piece of it like a leech in order to satisfy their craving for legitimacy.
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Old May 17 2010, 01:55 AM   #99
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Re: Where did Spock go?

StarryEyed wrote: View Post
I would argue though that the Star Trek saga as a whole is at an all-time low. It would have been better if they had declared nuTrek a clean reboot as they did with the Bond franchise. I still wouldn't have contributed a cent to it because I hate it but I wouldn't feel as if they had violated the original Star Trek canon by sucking a piece of it like a leech in order to satisfy their craving for legitimacy.
True.
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Old May 17 2010, 02:00 AM   #100
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Re: Where did Spock go?

xortex wrote: View Post
Are you saying an alternate Spock changed history to insure that his existence in the future is secure and becomes prevelant and supercedes the old Spock's position and time line? Didn't read rest of post yet. The new alternate spock is a sellout.
I just wanted to quote myself 'cause I'm not spending another dime on Star Trek either.
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Old May 17 2010, 02:06 AM   #101
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Re: Where did Spock go?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Shazam! wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
And so wouldn't it have been renamed with a Vulcan name if it's in the Vulcan system?
If it was renamed by Vulcans.
Clearly Abrams tossed in all sorts of trek derived references with little thought about any logical consistency. He just wanted a slam-bam action movie with some familiar names. Fair enough for a reboot, but that still doesn't make it consistent with what had already been established. And as a reboot why is it even necessary to try connecting to TOS? Because he wanted some connection of legitimacy. But he fucked it up.
This is correct, they did fuck it up, so let's not let them off the hook for it by sweeping the whole thing under the proverbial rug.
Well here's something to consider: if one insists on believing that this is the original universe altered then you have to accept that everything previously in Trek has been wiped clean and is irrelevant. Just like nuVulcan it's all been destroyed.

I see it more logically as, a) the prime original Star Trek and, b) the reimagined bizarro version of Trek.
I see it like this: the Batman of Nolan's movies or The X-Men of Singer's movies or the Spider-Man of Raimi's films do not destroy or wipe away or have any bearing at all on the way those characters are handled by Marvel and DC in continuity. The new Trek movie is the same thing for me. I say this as a guy who loved Trek '09, saw it three times I the theater and own the DVD: the movie has no more bearing on TOS than the old Gold Key Comics do. The Gold Key Comics were dumb fun. So was this movie.
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Old May 17 2010, 02:23 AM   #102
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Re: Where did Spock go?

Temis is glad Star Trek isn't dead? I have news for her: It's undead!
Then I'm glad it's undead! If this is Zombie Trek, allow me to be the first to say: ARRRRRRRR.
As for a way prevent it, the simplest would be to use the warp speed breakaway factor to take Enterprise back to the point in time when Nero emerges in the past and blow him to hell with a spread of 24th century quantum torpedoes. Which I'm reasonably sure Spock should be able to fabricate.
But but but...that violates the established canon of characters who learn how to time travel and then promptly forget all about it!

I said this on the other thread, but here goes: Spock doesn't have the right to undo 25 years of everyone's lives. It would effectively be the murder of Kirk and co, replacing them with their TOS versions.
He can't do that anyway! He'd be replacing people from one universe with people from another universe! He isn't in that universe anymore and doesn't seem to know how to get back to it.

It would have been better if they had declared nuTrek a clean reboot as they did with the Bond franchise.
Nah, I wouldn't have liked that as much. I'm happy with the way they decided to go.
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Old May 17 2010, 03:42 AM   #103
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Re: Where did Spock go?

elton wrote: View Post
... it's fiction ... we have utter shit ... it is dumb as fuck ... Don't like it ... sit and gratify yourself ... a fucking fantasy ... you need to hear that shit ... you have issues ...
( giggle .giggle . giggle . giggle .giggle . giggle . giggle .giggle . giggle )
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Old May 17 2010, 04:05 AM   #104
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Re: Where did Spock go?

Sorry about the joining the party late...but Warped9 makes some great points.

In ST09, if nuChekov and Original Chekov share the same birthyear, then Chekov should have been 15 in ST09...and obviously he wasn't. The "alternate dimension" can't explain why Chekov would have been born two years before he should have been.

Also, in ST09, Pike is clearly older than Kirk - old enough to be shoehorned into the cliched "father figure" role. In the TOS timeline, he's not much older than Kirk; even in "The Menagerie," Commodore Mendez clearly says that Pike is "about your (meaning Kirk's) age." If anything, Kirk and Pike should have been graduating around the same time, and Pike certainly shouldn't have been that much older than Kirk. How Pike was old enough to be Kirk's "father-figure" in the 2009 movie is beyond me.

One last thing - the alleged "original" Spock claimed that Kirk's father was present when alleged "original" Kirk took command of the Enterprise, but "Conscience of the King" strongly suggests (but doesn't actually say) that Kirk's parents died at Tarsus IV, like Kevin Riley. At least that's what I always concluded from watching that (excellent) TOS episode.

These facts, added to the ones that Warped9 pointed out, make it pretty clear that even the "original" timeline from which the "alternate reality" supposedly branches from is NOT actually the TOS timeline. And that's not even getting into the whole "Kelvin" fiasco...
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Old May 17 2010, 04:42 AM   #105
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Re: Where did Spock go?

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Temis is glad Star Trek isn't dead? I have news for her: It's undead!
Then I'm glad it's undead! If this is Zombie Trek, allow me to be the first to say: ARRRRRRRR.
It sounds like you're confusing undead with pirates - just as you are confusing this nuTrek with real Star Trek.
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