First Contact music cue

22 Stars · May 13 2010, 10:52 PM

Just watching FC on AMC and wanted to get this off my chest. When Worf shows up on the Defiant, wouldn't it have been nice if we got a taste of the DS9 theme, transitioning to the TNG theme, instead of the Klingon music?

Yeah, Worf's a Klingon, but that's not 'Worf's theme' musically ever except maybe for first season TNG, if I'm not mistaken, and he and Defiant were DS9 staples at the time.

It would have been a nice thing for the fans, although I'm sure they would have paid roayalties to Dennis McCarthy instead of Jerry Goldsmith.

It just would have made more Trek sense to me.

tharpdevenport · May 14 2010, 12:54 AM

No, it doesn't make any sense. Worf was not an original D.S.9. cast member, he was never a perminent member, and if it wasn't for the Defient, there would be nothing about D.S.9. in the film.

In fact, stuffing in the Klingon theme wasn't quite right either. Sure he's Klingon, but he's not just another random one -- he needed his own theme (did he ever get a re-occuring one on TNG?).

doubleohfive · May 14 2010, 09:33 AM

^There was always the first two notes of the Klingon theme" theme/motif that popped up in the Klingon-centric episodes of TNG... but I disagree with you about not using the DS9 theme. At the time it would have been wholly appropriate to do so. Worf was and had been a regular character on DS9 for over a year by the time First Contact premiered; further, the Defiant itself was a mainstay from that show as well.

Likely, Jerry Goldsmith didn't do it (if it had even occurred to him or been suggested) because the production would still have had to pay a nominal fee (and then royalties) to Dennis McCarthy for using his theme for DS9 in the film. Goldsmith lifting his own Klingon theme worked fine though.

22 Stars · May 14 2010, 04:38 PM

Thanks doubleoh. My guess is that it never occured to anyone, and that Goldsmith saw 'klingon' on the sheet for that scene and went with his Klingon Theme.

It's always been jarring for me in FC, because I so associate that theme with TMP and 'bad guy Klingons' in general, not Worf in the slightest...

sbk1234 · May 14 2010, 08:43 PM

I would think that some of the decision would have had to do with what was going on in the flick at the time. THe Klingon music from TMP has an action-based rythm (or is it tempo? I don't know) which lent itself well to the action of the scene. The DS9 music was a softer, slower tune which would not have worked well in that situation, IMHO.
Agree or not, more important to the filmmakers than a nod to the fans would be how well the music helped to tell the story.

doubleohfive · May 15 2010, 03:29 PM

And even more important than that, is that they not spend money where they don't need to. Admittedly, Goldsmith took the 'easy' way out by just rehashing himself, but it's not undeniable that it likely would have cost the picture more to use McCarthy's theme for that one bit on top of having Goldsmith --and his son Joel-- score the rest of the picture.

Therin of Andor · May 16 2010, 10:07 PM

22 Stars wrote:

My guess is that it never occured to anyone

You're now guessing what creative ideas did and didn't pass through Goldsmith's head - and across brainstorming sessions with the production team - over his several weeks/months working on this music?

I'm sure lots of possibilities occurred to them. The script originally had a line about Worf's then-recent marriage to Dax, although this had to be dropped when DS9 ended up killing her off.

junxon · May 16 2010, 10:16 PM

i think the boring, ponderous ds9 music would've been really out o' place

22 Stars · May 17 2010, 12:58 AM

Therin of Andor wrote:

22 Stars wrote:

My guess is that it never occured to anyone

You're now guessing what creative ideas did and didn't pass through Goldsmith's head - and across brainstorming sessions with the production team - over his several weeks/months working on this music?

I'm sure lots of possibilities occurred to them. The script originally had a line about Worf's then-recent marriage to Dax, although this had to be dropped when DS9 ended up killing her off.

Yep, I'm now guessing that. I would bet, and would guess that Mr. Goldsmith never knew, and was never told that the Klingon in that scene was on another Trek show at that time. Therin, I love your input as a fan, we both have an almost encylcopedic knowledge or Trek, so please feel free from convincing me otherwise.

Therin of Andor · May 17 2010, 07:30 AM

Okay. Keep posting threads you don't want feedback on.

At no time did I try to convince you about anything in this thread.

22 Stars · May 18 2010, 06:46 PM

Sorry Therin, I do want feedback. I just wasn't sure why you seemed to be upset about me guessing. I don't have any facts or articles to lead me to think otherwise about this music choice. I know it's a silly, nitpick, just thought that some might share my 'not liking' of the music choice for this cue.

I genuinely do like reading your posts and experiences, we are both part of Playtrek as well, and love that we can share Trek from around the globe!

Russell

May 13 2010, 10:52 PM	#1
22 Stars Commodore	First Contact music cue Just watching FC on AMC and wanted to get this off my chest. When Worf shows up on the Defiant, wouldn't it have been nice if we got a taste of the DS9 theme, transitioning to the TNG theme, instead of the Klingon music? Yeah, Worf's a Klingon, but that's not 'Worf's theme' musically ever except maybe for first season TNG, if I'm not mistaken, and he and Defiant were DS9 staples at the time. It would have been a nice thing for the fans, although I'm sure they would have paid roayalties to Dennis McCarthy instead of Jerry Goldsmith. It just would have made more Trek sense to me.

May 14 2010, 12:54 AM	#2
tharpdevenport Admiral Location: Click here for super karate monkey death MOD porn!	Re: First Contact music cue No, it doesn't make any sense. Worf was not an original D.S.9. cast member, he was never a perminent member, and if it wasn't for the Defient, there would be nothing about D.S.9. in the film. In fact, stuffing in the Klingon theme wasn't quite right either. Sure he's Klingon, but he's not just another random one -- he needed his own theme (did he ever get a re-occuring one on TNG?). __________________ Mr. Signature Number 2 "Are you going to run?" Number 6 "Like blazes! The first chance I get." -Smile! God Loves You! Too bad he doesn't exist, oh and everyone else thinks you're an asshole.

May 14 2010, 09:33 AM	#3
doubleohfive Fleet Admiral Location: Los Angeles, CA	Re: First Contact music cue ^There was always the first two notes of the Klingon theme" theme/motif that popped up in the Klingon-centric episodes of TNG... but I disagree with you about not using the DS9 theme. At the time it would have been wholly appropriate to do so. Worf was and had been a regular character on DS9 for over a year by the time First Contact premiered; further, the Defiant itself was a mainstay from that show as well. Likely, Jerry Goldsmith didn't do it (if it had even occurred to him or been suggested) because the production would still have had to pay a nominal fee (and then royalties) to Dennis McCarthy for using his theme for DS9 in the film. Goldsmith lifting his own Klingon theme worked fine though. __________________ "I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it." -Voltaire

May 14 2010, 04:38 PM	#4
22 Stars Commodore	Re: First Contact music cue Thanks doubleoh. My guess is that it never occured to anyone, and that Goldsmith saw 'klingon' on the sheet for that scene and went with his Klingon Theme. It's always been jarring for me in FC, because I so associate that theme with TMP and 'bad guy Klingons' in general, not Worf in the slightest...

May 14 2010, 08:43 PM	#5
sbk1234 Rear Admiral Location: Los Angeles	Re: First Contact music cue I would think that some of the decision would have had to do with what was going on in the flick at the time. THe Klingon music from TMP has an action-based rythm (or is it tempo? I don't know) which lent itself well to the action of the scene. The DS9 music was a softer, slower tune which would not have worked well in that situation, IMHO. Agree or not, more important to the filmmakers than a nod to the fans would be how well the music helped to tell the story. __________________ In all the history of the world, a riot has NEVER broken out at a Sci-Fi convention. "It's a fucking TV show!" - Gary Lockwood

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May 15 2010, 03:29 PM	#6
doubleohfive Fleet Admiral Location: Los Angeles, CA	Re: First Contact music cue And even more important than that, is that they not spend money where they don't need to. Admittedly, Goldsmith took the 'easy' way out by just rehashing himself, but it's not undeniable that it likely would have cost the picture more to use McCarthy's theme for that one bit on top of having Goldsmith --and his son Joel-- score the rest of the picture. __________________ "I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it." -Voltaire

May 16 2010, 10:16 PM	#8
junxon Fleet Captain Location: I'm a Romulan now. Romulans are cool	Re: First Contact music cue i think the boring, ponderous ds9 music would've been really out o' place

May 17 2010, 07:30 AM	#10
Therin of Andor Admiral Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)	Re: First Contact music cue Okay. Keep posting threads you don't want feedback on. At no time did I try to convince you about anything in this thread. __________________ Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion) The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/ http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/

May 18 2010, 06:46 PM	#11
22 Stars Commodore	Re: First Contact music cue Sorry Therin, I do want feedback. I just wasn't sure why you seemed to be upset about me guessing. I don't have any facts or articles to lead me to think otherwise about this music choice. I know it's a silly, nitpick, just thought that some might share my 'not liking' of the music choice for this cue. I genuinely do like reading your posts and experiences, we are both part of Playtrek as well, and love that we can share Trek from around the globe! Russell