RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,108
Posts: 5,400,216
Members: 24,744
Currently online: 488
Newest member: Ohwowmelody

TrekToday headlines

Trek Merchandise Sale
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek #39 Villain Revealed
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Trek Big Bang Figures
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek Seekers Cover Art
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Fan Film Axanar Kickstarter Success
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Two New Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Actor Wins Emmy
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Retro Watches
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

New DS9 eBook To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Aug 25

Trek Ice Cube Maker and Shot Glasses
By: T'Bonz on Aug 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 16 2010, 04:41 PM   #31
Shazam!
Rear Admiral
 
Shazam!'s Avatar
 
Re: Where did Spock go?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
And so wouldn't it have been renamed with a Vulcan name if it's in the Vulcan system?
If it was renamed by Vulcans.
Clearly Abrams tossed in all sorts of trek derived references with little thought about any logical consistency. He just wanted a slam-bam action movie with some familiar names. Fair enough for a reboot, but that still doesn't make it consistent with what had already been established. And as a reboot why is it even necessary to try connecting to TOS? Because he wanted some connection of legitimacy. But he fucked it up.
This is correct, they did fuck it up, so let's not let them off the hook for it by sweeping the whole thing under the proverbial rug.
Shazam! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16 2010, 04:46 PM   #32
StarryEyed
Commodore
 
StarryEyed's Avatar
 
Location: Florida Keys
Re: Where did Spock go?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
StarryEyed wrote: View Post
I think Delta Vega being in the Vulcan system is PLENTY enough to establish that this is a totally different universe.
Pick up an atlas. Do you have any idea how many duplicate town names there are in the world?

Why would the galaxy be any different?
Planets in the Vulcan system would be named by Vulcans. And they are NOT going to name it Delta Vega.
StarryEyed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16 2010, 04:53 PM   #33
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Where did Spock go?

Shazam! wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
And so wouldn't it have been renamed with a Vulcan name if it's in the Vulcan system?
If it was renamed by Vulcans.
Clearly Abrams tossed in all sorts of trek derived references with little thought about any logical consistency. He just wanted a slam-bam action movie with some familiar names. Fair enough for a reboot, but that still doesn't make it consistent with what had already been established. And as a reboot why is it even necessary to try connecting to TOS? Because he wanted some connection of legitimacy. But he fucked it up.
This is correct, they did fuck it up, so let's not let them off the hook for it by sweeping the whole thing under the proverbial rug.
Well here's something to consider: if one insists on believing that this is the original universe altered then you have to accept that everything previously in Trek has been wiped clean and is irrelevant. Just like nuVulcan it's all been destroyed.

I see it more logically as, a) the prime original Star Trek and, b) the reimagined bizarro version of Trek.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16 2010, 04:53 PM   #34
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Where did Spock go?

StarryEyed wrote: View Post
KingDaniel wrote: View Post
StarryEyed wrote: View Post
I think Delta Vega being in the Vulcan system is PLENTY enough to establish that this is a totally different universe.
Pick up an atlas. Do you have any idea how many duplicate town names there are in the world?

Why would the galaxy be any different?
Planets in the Vulcan system would be named by Vulcans. And they are NOT going to name it Delta Vega.
The Vulcan name could be unpronouncable to humans, like Spock's first name.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16 2010, 05:00 PM   #35
Shazam!
Rear Admiral
 
Shazam!'s Avatar
 
Re: Where did Spock go?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Well here's something to consider: if one insists on believing that this is the original universe altered then you have to accept that everything previously in Trek has been wiped clean and is irrelevant.
Unfortunately, it pretty much is irrelevant.

However, no you don't, you can just accept that in this particular instance time travel works differently as a result of magic, sorry, red matter.

There are always... possibilities.

Besides, isn't the argument for it being the original universe altered a different one from Spock being TOS Spock or not?
Shazam! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16 2010, 05:05 PM   #36
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Where did Spock go?

Shazam! wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
Well here's something to consider: if one insists on believing that this is the original universe altered then you have to accept that everything previously in Trek has been wiped clean and is irrelevant.
Unfortunately, it pretty much is irrelevant.

However, no you don't, you can just accept that in this particular instance time travel works differently as a result of magic, sorry, red matter.

There are always... possibilities.

Besides, isn't the argument for it being the original universe altered a different one from Spock being TOS Spock or not?
I think we end up with both. There's enough evidence to show this isn't the TOS universe altered, and there's enough evidence to show that old nuSpock isn't TOS Spock.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16 2010, 05:13 PM   #37
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Where did Spock go?

No, you've decided there's "enough evidence". There's similar evidence that TOS isn't all the same universe. It doesn't make it so.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16 2010, 05:52 PM   #38
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Where did Spock go?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
No, you've decided there's "enough evidence". There's similar evidence that TOS isn't all the same universe. It doesn't make it so.
You believe what you want and I believe what I want. That's essentially the point. For you it works. For me not by a long shot.

The real reason many deliberately ignore the film's failings is because they desperately want the stamp of legitimacy. I'm not willing to concede it no matter what may or my not have been intended. I'll go by what they put on the screen because that's what matters.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16 2010, 06:04 PM   #39
Dukhat
Commodore
 
Dukhat's Avatar
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
Re: Where did Spock go?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
You believe what you want and I believe what I want. That's essentially the point. For you it works. For me not by a long shot.
Warped9, if if it makes it easier for you to sleep at night thinking that Spock Prime is from some other universe that the original TOS one, fine. Sweet dreams, I say. But when it comes to your fanon opinion versus the actual film producers' facts, then there's really no argument.

The real reason many deliberately ignore the film's failings is because they desperately want the stamp of legitimacy. I'm not willing to concede it no matter what may or my not have been intended. I'll go by what they put on the screen because that's what matters.
I can only speak for myself, but I ignored the miniscule things that the film got wrong in terms of TOS chronology simply because I care nothing about those things. All I cared about was seeing an entertaining movie. And I'd bet that I'm just as much of a ST fan as you are, not some Joe Sixpack who went to se the movie for all the pretty explosions.
__________________
“Don’t believe everything you read on the internet.”
– Benjamin Franklin
Dukhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16 2010, 06:13 PM   #40
Shazam!
Rear Admiral
 
Shazam!'s Avatar
 
Re: Where did Spock go?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
The real reason many deliberately ignore the film's failings ...
It seems that you're ignoring the film's failings by trying to sweep it under the proverbial rug of an alternate universe. I'm quite happy to accept that it's a shoddy addition to the existing Trek franchise, much like any other episode or movie I dislike.
Shazam! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16 2010, 06:27 PM   #41
Ryan Thomas Riddle
Rear Admiral
 
Ryan Thomas Riddle's Avatar
 
Location: The Bay Area
View Ryan Thomas Riddle's Twitter Profile
Re: Where did Spock go?

JoeZhang wrote: View Post
I don't understand why this matters so much? The producers, the writers and the actor all wanted it to the TOS Spock - why does it scare people so much that this is the case?
To quote Kirk from TUC: "People can be very frightened of change."
__________________
A mild-mannered reporter
Ryan Thomas Riddle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16 2010, 06:37 PM   #42
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Where did Spock go?

middyseafort wrote: View Post
JoeZhang wrote: View Post
I don't understand why this matters so much? The producers, the writers and the actor all wanted it to the TOS Spock - why does it scare people so much that this is the case?
To quote Kirk from TUC: "People can be very frightened of change."
I'm not afraid of change. But I really resent the smell of crap.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16 2010, 06:50 PM   #43
Kelso
Vice Admiral
 
Kelso's Avatar
 
Location: On the destruct button until the last minute!
View Kelso's Twitter Profile
Re: Where did Spock go?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
I'm not willing to concede it no matter what may or my not have been intended. I'll go by what they put on the screen because that's what matters.
All of your points in the OP have been shown to be wrong. The only real inconsistency is Pike's age, since he was born before the Kelvin attack, and that is only based on the age of the actors.

StarryEyed wrote: View Post
Planets in the Vulcan system would be named by Vulcans. And they are NOT going to name it Delta Vega.
Vulcan doesn't even sound like a Vulcan name.
Kelso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16 2010, 07:30 PM   #44
Lieut. Arex
Fleet Captain
 
Lieut. Arex's Avatar
 
Location: Nav console
Re: Where did Spock go?

As this thread is about ST09, can it be moved there? I am sick unto death of threads about a film which has ZERO to do with Star Trek in the forum dedicated to it. Hell, there's already a thread in the I-X Movies forum largely dealing with this issue.

The film doesn't speak to ST. It is a reboot. The designs of ships and costumes don't represent those in the original timeline. The fates and backstories it postulates for its versions of the original characters do not speak to the originals nor alter them in any way. It has as much bearing as the Gold Key comics or LP audio adventures, namely none. It is as distinct a property from Star Trek as Batman (1966) is from Batman (1989).
Lieut. Arex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16 2010, 07:40 PM   #45
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Where did Spock go?

Except for the fact that Old Spock is the guy from TOS (and hence the thread being here), thus it is connected to the old continuity in a way other reboots aren't, despite minor variations in spaceship and costume designs.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
spock

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:37 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.