Where did Spock go?

[Shazam!]

Warped9 wrote:

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And so wouldn't it have been renamed with a Vulcan name if it's in the Vulcan system?

If it was renamed by Vulcans.

Clearly Abrams tossed in all sorts of trek derived references with little thought about any logical consistency. He just wanted a slam-bam action movie with some familiar names. Fair enough for a reboot, but that still doesn't make it consistent with what had already been established. And as a reboot why is it even necessary to try connecting to TOS? Because he wanted some connection of legitimacy. But he fucked it up.

This is correct, they did fuck it up, so let's not let them off the hook for it by sweeping the whole thing under the proverbial rug.

[StarryEyed]

KingDaniel wrote:

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Pick up an atlas. Do you have any idea how many duplicate town names there are in the world?

Why would the galaxy be any different?

Planets in the Vulcan system would be named by Vulcans. And they are NOT going to name it Delta Vega.

[Warped9]

Shazam! wrote:

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If it was renamed by Vulcans.

This is correct, they did fuck it up, so let's not let them off the hook for it by sweeping the whole thing under the proverbial rug.

Well here's something to consider: if one insists on believing that this is the original universe altered then you have to accept that everything previously in Trek has been wiped clean and is irrelevant. Just like nuVulcan it's all been destroyed.

I see it more logically as, a) the prime original Star Trek and, b) the reimagined bizarro version of Trek.

[King Daniel Into Darkness]

StarryEyed wrote:

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Planets in the Vulcan system would be named by Vulcans. And they are NOT going to name it Delta Vega.

The Vulcan name could be unpronouncable to humans, like Spock's first name.

[Shazam!]

Warped9 wrote:

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Well here's something to consider: if one insists on believing that this is the original universe altered then you have to accept that everything previously in Trek has been wiped clean and is irrelevant.

Unfortunately, it pretty much is irrelevant.

However, no you don't, you can just accept that in this particular instance time travel works differently as a result of magic, sorry, red matter.

There are always... possibilities.

Besides, isn't the argument for it being the original universe altered a different one from Spock being TOS Spock or not?

[Warped9]

Shazam! wrote:

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Unfortunately, it pretty much is irrelevant.

However, no you don't, you can just accept that in this particular instance time travel works differently as a result of magic, sorry, red matter.

There are always... possibilities.

Besides, isn't the argument for it being the original universe altered a different one from Spock being TOS Spock or not?

I think we end up with both. There's enough evidence to show this isn't the TOS universe altered, and there's enough evidence to show that old nuSpock isn't TOS Spock.

[King Daniel Into Darkness]

No, you've decided there's "enough evidence". There's similar evidence that TOS isn't all the same universe. It doesn't make it so.

[Warped9]

KingDaniel wrote:

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No, you've decided there's "enough evidence". There's similar evidence that TOS isn't all the same universe. It doesn't make it so.

You believe what you want and I believe what I want. That's essentially the point. For you it works. For me not by a long shot.

The real reason many deliberately ignore the film's failings is because they desperately want the stamp of legitimacy. I'm not willing to concede it no matter what may or my not have been intended. I'll go by what they put on the screen because that's what matters.

[Dukhat]

Warped9 wrote:

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You believe what you want and I believe what I want. That's essentially the point. For you it works. For me not by a long shot.

Warped9, if if it makes it easier for you to sleep at night thinking that Spock Prime is from some other universe that the original TOS one, fine. Sweet dreams, I say. But when it comes to your fanon opinion versus the actual film producers' facts, then there's really no argument.

The real reason many deliberately ignore the film's failings is because they desperately want the stamp of legitimacy. I'm not willing to concede it no matter what may or my not have been intended. I'll go by what they put on the screen because that's what matters.

I can only speak for myself, but I ignored the miniscule things that the film got wrong in terms of TOS chronology simply because I care nothing about those things. All I cared about was seeing an entertaining movie. And I'd bet that I'm just as much of a ST fan as you are, not some Joe Sixpack who went to se the movie for all the pretty explosions.

[Shazam!]

Warped9 wrote:

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The real reason many deliberately ignore the film's failings ...

It seems that you're ignoring the film's failings by trying to sweep it under the proverbial rug of an alternate universe. I'm quite happy to accept that it's a shoddy addition to the existing Trek franchise, much like any other episode or movie I dislike.

[middyseafort]

JoeZhang wrote:

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I don't understand why this matters so much? The producers, the writers and the actor all wanted it to the TOS Spock - why does it scare people so much that this is the case?

To quote Kirk from TUC: "People can be very frightened of change."

[Warped9]

middyseafort wrote:

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To quote Kirk from TUC: "People can be very frightened of change."

I'm not afraid of change. But I really resent the smell of crap.

[Kelso]

Warped9 wrote:

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I'm not willing to concede it no matter what may or my not have been intended. I'll go by what they put on the screen because that's what matters.

All of your points in the OP have been shown to be wrong. The only real inconsistency is Pike's age, since he was born before the Kelvin attack, and that is only based on the age of the actors.

StarryEyed wrote:

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Planets in the Vulcan system would be named by Vulcans. And they are NOT going to name it Delta Vega.

Vulcan doesn't even sound like a Vulcan name.

[Lieut. Arex]

As this thread is about ST09, can it be moved there? I am sick unto death of threads about a film which has ZERO to do with Star Trek in the forum dedicated to it. Hell, there's already a thread in the I-X Movies forum largely dealing with this issue.

The film doesn't speak to ST. It is a reboot. The designs of ships and costumes don't represent those in the original timeline. The fates and backstories it postulates for its versions of the original characters do not speak to the originals nor alter them in any way. It has as much bearing as the Gold Key comics or LP audio adventures, namely none. It is as distinct a property from Star Trek as Batman (1966) is from Batman (1989).

[King Daniel Into Darkness]

Except for the fact that Old Spock is the guy from TOS (and hence the thread being here), thus it is connected to the old continuity in a way other reboots aren't, despite minor variations in spaceship and costume designs.