RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,392
Posts: 5,358,445
Members: 24,627
Currently online: 572
Newest member: space2050

TrekToday headlines

Star Trek: Prelude to Axanar Online Debut
By: T'Bonz on Jul 31

Warp 5.0: Trek Toward Sci-Fi’s Golden Anniversary
By: T'Bonz on Jul 31

Takei To Host Pittsburgh Symphony PNC Pops’ Sci-Fi Spectacular
By: T'Bonz on Jul 31

Kurtzman In Mummy Talks
By: T'Bonz on Jul 31

The Gene Roddenberry Project Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Jul 30

Moore: No Deep Space Nine Regrets
By: T'Bonz on Jul 30

Pegg Star Wars Rumor
By: T'Bonz on Jul 30

Borg Cube Fridge
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Free Enterprise Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Siddig To Join Game Of Thrones
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old May 13 2010, 09:32 PM   #61
Brandonv
Fleet Captain
 
Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

At this point I see Star Trek XI as what I call a pseudo-reboot. What I mean by this: In the timeline that that Spock prime came from, the main events of TOS, TNG, ect, did happen, but other details where different. For example, the design and size of Federation ships.

The Narada looking like no Romulan ship we had seen before is fine with me. I just assume that it is a highly specialized mining ship, built for function instead of aesthetics.
Brandonv is offline  
Old May 13 2010, 10:01 PM   #62
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??

But if you're gonna play Time Police and go back to undo the attack on the Kelvin (thus changing countless lives) why stop there? Seven million humans died when the Xindi attacked Earth. Proven tampering from the future. Let's undo that. What about that entire colony killed in ENT: "Shockwave"?

Many big historical Trek events are rife with tampering from future aliens. Some had halfway hack-job fixes (the Xindi attack left seven million humans dead that shouldn't be, many were killed in the First Contact Borg attack, microchips are supposedly the result of a timeship from the future that crashed in the 60's) Yet much damage was left unfixed. Same thing in STXI.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline  
Old May 13 2010, 11:13 PM   #63
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
But if you're gonna play Time Police and go back to undo the attack on the Kelvin (thus changing countless lives) why stop there? Seven million humans died when the Xindi attacked Earth. Proven tampering from the future. Let's undo that. What about that entire colony killed in ENT: "Shockwave"? Many big historical Trek events are rife with tampering from future aliens. Some had halfway hack-job fixes (the Xindi attack left seven million humans dead that shouldn't be, many were killed in the First Contact Borg attack, microchips are supposedly the result of a timeship from the future that crashed in the 60's) Yet much damage was left unfixed. Same thing in STXI.
And I'm still waiting to see that, because it really should have been undone. But I regard ENT as being an alternate timeline anyway. The Klingon from the pilot episode was not supposed to be there, he was part if the TCW, then there where a couple of big events of which was said "this should not have happened", and then there were the remains of First Contact. The entire series is not in the same timeline as TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY. Which is why Riker is much fatter in ENT: TATV compared to TNG: Pegasus.

At the same time ENT is evidence that in the Star Trek universe there is only one timeline. In "Shockwave", as soon as Daniels removes Archer from the 22nd century and transfers him to the 31st century, the timeline of the 31st century is instantly fucked up.
__________________
lol
l
/\

Last edited by JarodRussell; May 13 2010 at 11:25 PM.
JarodRussell is offline  
Old May 13 2010, 11:47 PM   #64
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??

Riker's fatness may be an even lamer excuse to put a show in an alternate reality than a slightly different stardate system

I think you're making an incorrect assumption about TOS: That it's the pure/correct/original timeline to begin with. Even ignoring Enterprise (which conclusively proves TOS/TNG/etc. to be the result of several major shifts in the timeline), TOS itself interfered in the past more than a few times (they stole whales! Left a phaser behind! Invented transparent aluminum - all in just one film) TNG went back to a 19th century full of aliens from the future who were killing the homeless. Sisko replaced Gabe Bell.

Don't forget Captain Braxton's 29th century time police and Crewman Daniels' 31st century time police who always cause far more trouble than they stop.

Long story short: The timeline is screwed. Utterly. As time goes on, more and more spiecies will learn how to go back, and make it worse. Unendingly.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline  
Old May 13 2010, 11:54 PM   #65
Ronald Held
Rear Admiral
 
Location: On the USS Sovereign
Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??

Since, IMO it is another univers and not an altered timeline, the Prime Universe DTI is not getting involved.
Now why Spock would not try to alter the timeline of his current universe to prevent the destruction by Nero, that is another question....
Ronald Held is offline  
Old May 14 2010, 12:17 AM   #66
Peter the Younger
Commodore
 
Peter the Younger's Avatar
 
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

They said it was an alternate - as opposed to parallel - universe for one very specific reason: they thought that would go down easier for the fanbase. In retrospect, this seems like an unnecessary complication, but hindsight is 20/20; if I had been asked back in 2008, I probably would have agreed with the decision. It is true that the little differences work a lot better if it is a totally different universe, and personally, I'm fine with just believing that on my own. My guess is, give Abrams, Kurtzman, and Orci another successful movie under their belt, ask them the question about a thousand more times, and they will say (in essence), "Okay whatever, you're right, it makes more sense as a parallel."
__________________
All these arguments have happened before, and all these arguments will happen again.


Peter the Younger is offline  
Old May 14 2010, 12:58 AM   #67
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??

You don't create a divergence point when you go forward in time, only when you go back. Thus the timeline was screwed up in "Shockwave" and "Yesterday's Enterprise" (but curiously not "Azati Prime" where Archer was taken briefly to the future without destroying it).

We clearly saw two versions of Captain Braxton in "Future's End". The second one actually said "I never experienced that timeline" to Janeway at the end.
We also saw different versions of Crewman Daniels in Enterprise, each from a different version of the future (at least one of whom died).

Need I mention the alternate timelines in "All Good Things", "Endgame", "Twilight" etc?

Star Trek has never had a single timeline. We've just, until now, seen the multiverse from the POV of one group of people down one branch of the timeline-tree.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline  
Old May 14 2010, 01:37 AM   #68
FarStrider
Commander
 
FarStrider's Avatar
 
Send a message via Yahoo to FarStrider
Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

Brandonv wrote: View Post
At this point I see Star Trek XI as what I call a pseudo-reboot. What I mean by this: In the timeline that that Spock prime came from, the main events of TOS, TNG, ect, did happen, but other details where different. For example, the design and size of Federation ships.

The Narada looking like no Romulan ship we had seen before is fine with me. I just assume that it is a highly specialized mining ship, built for function instead of aesthetics.
Are you saying the universe that Spock Prime is from is an alternate Universe? What are you basing that on? It's not like we've seen every Federation or Romulan ship ever built. . .

Peter the Younger wrote: View Post
They said it was an alternate - as opposed to parallel - universe for one very specific reason: they thought that would go down easier for the fanbase.
Can you explain the difference between an Alternate Universe and a Parallel Universe? The way I see it, there is no difference; so maybe I'm missing something obvious?

~FS
__________________
"No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style. . . "

Last edited by FarStrider; May 14 2010 at 02:29 AM.
FarStrider is offline  
Old May 14 2010, 02:21 AM   #69
Brandonv
Fleet Captain
 
Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

FarStrider wrote: View Post
Are you saying the universe that Spock Prime is from is an alternate Universe? What are you basing that on? It's not like we've seen every Federation or Romulan ship ever built. . .
I view the universe that Spock Prime came from as not the original Trek universe in terms of some aspects, such as the visual style. So for example, the events of TOS more or less took place, except the Enterprise looked like the "Abramsprise". I'm not tying to force this opinion on anyone, it just works better for me to look at it this way.

I have to admit though that I do kind of go back and forth between the reboot and alternate time line arguments. I can't seem to pick a side.
Brandonv is offline  
Old May 14 2010, 02:24 AM   #70
J. Allen
Easily Influenced By Friends
 
J. Allen's Avatar
 
Location: United States
Send a message via ICQ to J. Allen Send a message via AIM to J. Allen Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to J. Allen Send a message via Yahoo to J. Allen
Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

I-Am-Zim wrote: View Post
...
Note: Unfortunately, the pics won't show if you're not logged in to startrekmovie.com at the same time. Sorry. If this forum would let me post pics from my hard drive like startrekmovie.com does, you would be able to see what the heck I'm talking about.
http://www.photobucket.com
http://www.imageshack.us
http://www.tinypic.com

These are all free.
__________________
:: :: ::
Visit Brony Kingdom! Don't ask why, just do it.
:: :: ::
-=- I still wish upon stars -=-
J. Allen is offline  
Old May 14 2010, 02:55 AM   #71
FarStrider
Commander
 
FarStrider's Avatar
 
Send a message via Yahoo to FarStrider
Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

Brandonv wrote: View Post
I view the universe that Spock Prime came from as not the original Trek universe in terms of some aspects, such as the visual style. So for example, the events of TOS more or less took place, except the Enterprise looked like the "Abramsprise". I'm not tying to force this opinion on anyone, it just works better for me to look at it this way.

I have to admit though that I do kind of go back and forth between the reboot and alternate time line arguments. I can't seem to pick a side.
Interesting. The way I see it is Spock Prime came from the TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY universe; I don't see anything in his ship that visually contradicts that POV. . . My view is the new Universe is the TOS until the very moment that the Kelvin saw the "lightning storm in space" and engaged the Narada. . . that is what sets it on the path to being an alternate/parallel universe: The Federation learns of the Romulan/Vulcan connection thirty-something years earlier (which probably had some big changes to some of the politics of the Federation). . . and with information gathered from the Narada encounter, StarFleet builds bigger, beefier ships like the Enterprise (which was built later, and is more technically advanced that its TOS counterpart (which accounts for the different visual style). . . because the Enterprise is not in service, Pike and Spock are at the Academy instead of out exploring. . . like ripples in a pond. . . lots of little things keep changing in that 25 years between the emergence of the Narada and the defining alternative event of the alternate timeline/universe: the destruction of Vulcan. . . That's my view, anyway.

~FS
__________________
"No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style. . . "
FarStrider is offline  
Old May 14 2010, 08:10 PM   #72
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

It's fiction. The writers say these characters came from the old Trek universe, therefore they did. There is no other existing universe for them to have come from, unless made up by the writers.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline  
Old May 14 2010, 08:48 PM   #73
Ronald Held
Rear Admiral
 
Location: On the USS Sovereign
Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??

The timeline was mostly patch up correcltly by then end of "Yesterday's Enterprise"
Ronald Held is offline  
Old May 14 2010, 09:02 PM   #74
jamestkirkfan
Ensign
 
Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??

Could Spock Prime undo what happened after the Narada attacked the USS Kelvin and go back in the prime universe just wondering.
jamestkirkfan is offline  
Old May 14 2010, 09:44 PM   #75
Sharr Khan
Rear Admiral
 
Sharr Khan's Avatar
 
Location: USA Ct
View Sharr Khan's Twitter Profile
Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

Dennis wrote: View Post
It's fiction. The writers say these characters came from the old Trek universe, therefore they did. There is no other existing universe for them to have come from, unless made up by the writers.
Precisely right.

What visual differences there are, are so because of creative choices made by the producers - just like every other incarnation of Trek.

That is the explanation for every makeup and uniform change over the years.

As an aside: Spock Prime wouldn't have been termed "Prime" unless he meant to have come from the original universe.
Sharr Khan is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:47 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.