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Old May 13 2010, 01:57 AM   #91
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

@Shaw - Thank you Shaw for the words of encouragement. I've been keeping up with your thread and it is quite the resource for all things TOS Enterprise

This project is meant as a recreation of the ship as seen on screen so I'm going to throw this (awful) joke out here: "Ask not what Jefferies meant it to be, but what the Thermians ended up building." Whenever possible, I'll try the designer's intent, but my goal is to recreate as closely as possible as what's been aired and in the empty spaces add my take to it whenever it doesn't run afoul of what has been shown.

On the turbolift and radiation issue - it might not be an issue given how close the turbolift would run next to warp core conduits in the neck of the TMP Enterprise...

@Mytran - D'oh! Of course 6 pads.

As far as volume taken up, I thought this might be an interesting comparison: the TOS shuttle vs the TOS primary hull with my interpretation (WIP!! ) of the impulse section.

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Old May 13 2010, 03:44 AM   #92
Gagarin
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Shaw wrote: View Post
Mytran wrote: View Post
Who knows!
You mean like Jefferies?
..well, what did he say about those markings? IIR, he didn't particulalry like adding gridlines or other details, so he did somewhat reluctantly... ?
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Old May 13 2010, 07:03 AM   #93
Mytran
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

I also thought Jefferies was against markings on his ship and had to be pretty much pressured into including them. So maybe he didn't see the red and yellow shapes as meaning anything?

blssdwlf, fascinating comparison!
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Old May 13 2010, 11:46 AM   #94
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Mytran wrote: View Post



There's the "spine" (which I coloured blue for clarity), a red outline leading to the base of the "teardrop" and shortly after that a bright yellow rectangle, outlined in red. What to make of all these?


Holy moly. The spine in this config in blue looks just like a miniature Excelsior warp nacelle. I think I'm going to use it as the part that helps the impulse system go FTL
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Old May 13 2010, 01:05 PM   #95
Tiberius
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

There's a part of the impulse system that goes FTL?
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Old May 13 2010, 03:31 PM   #96
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Tiberius wrote: View Post
There's a part of the impulse system that goes FTL?
Only by implication and only in TOS can an impulse ship go FTL
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Old May 13 2010, 04:42 PM   #97
Mytran
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

...which even more supports the notion that much of TNG takes place in an alternative timeline!
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Old May 13 2010, 08:17 PM   #98
Saquist
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Location: Starbase Houston
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

TMP makes the same implication with an impulse engine.

More than likely as warp engines started becoming more efficient they needed greater and greater magnitudes of high energy plasma. In TMP it's likely impulse plasma could power the warp coils. Likely this was a change in the materials the coils were made from.

With Fusion reaction there is ceiling to how much energy the plasma will have have but anti matter is a reaction that turns 100 percent of the matter into energy.

That's why to it makes more sense that the first warp engine was actually an impulse engine since warp and impulse essentially are both types of field propulsion.
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Old May 14 2010, 02:45 AM   #99
Tiberius
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Mytran wrote: View Post
...which even more supports the notion that much of TNG takes place in an alternative timeline!
Wah! Let's not get into that!
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Old May 14 2010, 03:13 AM   #100
Professor Moriarty
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Tiberius wrote: View Post
Mytran wrote: View Post
...which even more supports the notion that much of TNG takes place in an alternative timeline!
Wah! Let's not get into that!
Spoilsport!
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Old May 14 2010, 07:35 AM   #101
Mytran
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Saquist wrote: View Post
TMP makes the same implication with an impulse engine.
...
That's why to it makes more sense that the first warp engine was actually an impulse engine since warp and impulse essentially are both types of field propulsion.
It tallies nicely with Balance of Terror too - for the episode to make any sense, the Romulan vessel had to be capable of FTL travel and it has what appear to be warp nacelles, with Scotty describes their power source as "simple impulse". Impulse Power could very well power the warp field machinery.

For this reason, I think "impulse" is better described as a source of power rather than a form of propulsion - it's just that propulsion is what impulse is commonly used for.
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Old May 14 2010, 09:33 AM   #102
Gagarin
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Sorry guys.
Banging my head on wall re: impulse as "power" generation, a field drive, or a FTL system, or making sense of 'simple impulse', or trying to make sense of 'the first warp drive actually being an impulse drive.'

I'd agree that it seems like the FIRST warp drive of ZC could or should have been powered by a fusion reactor, and that a matter-anti-matter reactor with dilithium was a generation or two later (hardware generations...not people generations).

And maybe these fusion reactors on starships can make the impulse engines go darn near lightspeed, or maybe beyond if there is some field-trickery going on... but the 'power'/'electricity' components are seperate than the 'makes it go' components ---even if they're next to eachother. You can have working fusion power with a broken 'thrust' part. If your reactor isn't in your naccelle, you can still have matter/anti-matter reactor power even if your spacewarp coils are eaten up by space bugs.

In my opinion, the most annoying thing about TNG-Treknology was "warp core". Cause, really, it does more than power the warp drive. And there's no spacewarp happening in that 'core'. Just lots of jiggowatts.
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Old May 14 2010, 11:11 AM   #103
BK613
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Maybe even nuclear engines before fusion. The Botany Bay was powered by them anyway. (Hmm I never thought of this before: No DY-100 class or DY-500 class in the opening montage for ENT. Evidence of a parallel universe? )

Agree with the idea of the separation of power generation and warp field production. Allows for hypothetical ship A which uses fusion for both Newtonian and non-Newtonian propulsion and able to switch between them because there is linkage to both systems. (A M/AM reactor could also be included but is not required.)

Hypothetical ship B uses fusion solely for Newtonian propulsion. No linkage is included to the non-Newtonian systems because the power output of fusion is no longer sufficient for those components and they are powered by M/AM instead.

Other combinations are also possible...
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Old May 14 2010, 06:41 PM   #104
Gagarin
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

BK613 wrote: View Post

Other combinations are also possible...

You will find it... an effective combination.

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Old May 14 2010, 07:08 PM   #105
Saquist
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Location: Starbase Houston
Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Gagarin wrote: View Post
Sorry guys.
Banging my head on wall re: impulse as "power" generation, a field drive, or a FTL system, or making sense of 'simple impulse', or trying to make sense of 'the first warp drive actually being an impulse drive.'

I'd agree that it seems like the FIRST warp drive of ZC could or should have been powered by a fusion reactor, and that a matter-anti-matter reactor with dilithium was a generation or two later (hardware generations...not people generations).

And maybe these fusion reactors on starships can make the impulse engines go darn near lightspeed, or maybe beyond if there is some field-trickery going on... but the 'power'/'electricity' components are seperate than the 'makes it go' components ---even if they're next to eachother. You can have working fusion power with a broken 'thrust' part. If your reactor isn't in your naccelle, you can still have matter/anti-matter reactor power even if your spacewarp coils are eaten up by space bugs.

In my opinion, the most annoying thing about TNG-Treknology was "warp core". Cause, really, it does more than power the warp drive. And there's no spacewarp happening in that 'core'. Just lots of jiggowatts.
You know that does indeed spur me aswell. They through around the warp core lingo around quite a bit. It is nothing more than a reactor and it's power is being used for everything. That's what I trip over a lot

There isn't really nothing special about warp plasma other than it being high energy. They act like is some sort of 4th Dimensional energy.

Mytran wrote: View Post
Saquist wrote: View Post
TMP makes the same implication with an impulse engine.
...
That's why to it makes more sense that the first warp engine was actually an impulse engine since warp and impulse essentially are both types of field propulsion.
It tallies nicely with Balance of Terror too - for the episode to make any sense, the Romulan vessel had to be capable of FTL travel and it has what appear to be warp nacelles, with Scotty describes their power source as "simple impulse". Impulse Power could very well power the warp field machinery.

For this reason, I think "impulse" is better described as a source of power rather than a form of propulsion - it's just that propulsion is what impulse is commonly used for.
That's one of reason why i subscribe to the idea.
Not only that but at impulse The Enterprise D and A have both been seen reversing with out the aid barriers retro fire. And in ENTERPRISE the ship apparently experienced some sort of time travel event due to the impulse engines.

BK613 wrote: View Post
Maybe even nuclear engines before fusion. The Botany Bay was powered by them anyway. (Hmm I never thought of this before: No DY-100 class or DY-500 class in the opening montage for ENT. Evidence of a parallel universe? )

Agree with the idea of the separation of power generation and warp field production. Allows for hypothetical ship A which uses fusion for both Newtonian and non-Newtonian propulsion and able to switch between them because there is linkage to both systems. (A M/AM reactor could also be included but is not required.)

Hypothetical ship B uses fusion solely for Newtonian propulsion. No linkage is included to the non-Newtonian systems because the power output of fusion is no longer sufficient for those components and they are powered by M/AM instead.

Other combinations are also possible...
That's what my colleagues would call a proper "Tech Tree)
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