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General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

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Old May 5 2010, 11:08 PM   #1
jefferiestubes8
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Space Western & Star Trek

Space Western is a subgenre of science fiction, primarily grounded in film and television, that transposes themes of American Western books and film to a backdrop of futuristic space frontiers; it is the complement of the science fiction Western, which transposes science fiction themes onto an American Western setting.
as we all know:
When Gene Roddenberry first pitched his Star Trek TV series, which depicts space as "the Final Frontier", his sales pitches to the Western-fixated TV network executives of the 1960s described his science fiction TV show as a "Wagon Train to the Stars", based on the 1950s-60s Western TV series of the same name.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Western

A very Western Star Trek was the ENT episode
North Star. Synopsis: "Enterprise discovers a settlement of humans living a 19th-century Western lifestyle on a Delphic Expanse planet,

It's funny to see that Wiki also mantions
Star Trek V: The Final Frontier - the scenes on Nimbus III are heavily influenced by Westerns
I have not heard of
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The Adventures of the Galaxy Rangers is a cartoon example of the Space Western theme.
The series combined sci-fi stories with a typical wild-west-"feel", fusing elements of space opera with the traditional fantasy elements of sword and sorcery.
When the series originally aired, the 65 episodes were broadcast five days a week until they had all been shown. The episodes were for the most part aired out of order.
per Wiki
I see there is a thread from last year on this at TrekBBS
The Adventures of the Galaxy Rangers

Would The Adventures of the Galaxy Rangers, or the other late 1980s American space Western animated television series BraveStarr be possible for a CGI animated remake or a primetime rated TV14 live-action series? Would it work for adults?
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Old May 5 2010, 11:32 PM   #2
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Re: Space Western & Star Trek

Probably not, because prime-time animated series are comedies. They are successful because they make people laugh. IMO, a thought provoking cartoon or CGI series would not be successful in prime-time.
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Old May 5 2010, 11:40 PM   #3
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Re: Space Western & Star Trek

Yeah, I don't get the fascination with CGI (video game-ish looking) presentations. Especially for a Star Trek series.

If your series is based off a video game, then I can see it working. But to force CGI into something that was not a CGI based universe before doesn't make sense. Nor would it be well accepted.
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Old May 6 2010, 08:04 PM   #4
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Re: Space Western & Star Trek

Sector 7 wrote: View Post
Probably not, because prime-time animated series are comedies. They are successful because they make people laugh. IMO, a thought provoking cartoon or CGI series would not be successful in prime-time.
At least, not on a major network like CBS. On the other hand, Cowboy Bebop and Outlaw Star both had very successful runs n Adult Swim and would probably get a pretty warm reception on the Syfy channel if you arranged the lineup properly.

Of course, Star Trek ditched the "space western" idea very early on its run, so if you want to go back to that idea you'd have to retool it a bit. Maybe have a show about Tom Riker cruising around the galaxy in a stolen runabout as a mercenary for hire?
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Old May 8 2010, 12:50 AM   #5
J.T.B.
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Re: Space Western & Star Trek

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
Of course, Star Trek ditched the "space western" idea very early on its run, so if you want to go back to that idea you'd have to retool it a bit.
Indeed. I've always thought the Wagon Train reference had more to do with the episodic format than any specific ties to the Western genre. Unlike Gunsmoke or Bonanza, Wagon Train was always on the move, with new settings, plot issues and guest stars every week, and then on to somewhere else. That gave the writers a lot of freedom, which I think was something that appealed to GR for his new show.

Some of the early S1 episodes have a Westernish, "settling the frontier" feel to them, though.

--Justin
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Old May 8 2010, 01:00 AM   #6
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Re: Space Western & Star Trek

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
Of course, Star Trek ditched the "space western" idea very early on its run, so if you want to go back to that idea you'd have to retool it a bit.
Indeed. I've always thought the Wagon Train reference had more to do with the episodic format than any specific ties to the Western genre. Unlike Gunsmoke or Bonanza, Wagon Train was always on the move, with new settings, plot issues and guest stars every week, and then on to somewhere else. That gave the writers a lot of freedom, which I think was something that appealed to GR for his new show.

Some of the early S1 episodes have a Westernish, "settling the frontier" feel to them, though.

--Justin
The basic plot of "Mudd's Women" pops in westerns a lot.
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Old May 8 2010, 01:36 AM   #7
J.T.B.
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Re: Space Western & Star Trek

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Some of the early S1 episodes have a Westernish, "settling the frontier" feel to them, though.

--Justin
The basic plot of "Mudd's Women" pops in westerns a lot.
A lot of Westerns have traveling theater troupes or actors show up, too, like in "The Conscience of the King."

--Justin

Last edited by J.T.B.; May 8 2010 at 04:53 AM.
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Old May 8 2010, 01:59 AM   #8
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Re: Space Western & Star Trek

DS9 seemed to be channelling a lot of Western archetypes in the beginning. The station is the wild frontier; there's a new mayor sent from the Feds, the local deputy who doesn't like the Feds, the no-nonsense local sheriff, the roguish bartender, the outlaw who formerly terrorized the town and who makes it clear to the new mayor that he's not accepted defeat yet and is going to make things difficult for him; then in episode 3 (A Man Alone) there's a lynching mob turning on a man because he's an outsider, etc. This Western feel evaporated very soon, though.
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Old May 8 2010, 02:52 AM   #9
jefferiestubes8
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Re: Space Western & Star Trek

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
Some of the early S1 episodes have a Westernish, "settling the frontier" feel to them, though.
interviews were taped just prior to Star Trek's NBC premiere in September 1966 on the set of the episode TOS "What Are Little Girls Made Of?"
these clips are historic moments with the 2 main stars of The Original Series discussing a show that has yet to be seen by the public.
Rare 1966 Video Interviews with William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy On The Set
http://startrekpropauthority.blogspo...h-william.html

Shatner likens Trek not to a Western but to how Naval forces patrolled in 18th century.
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Old May 9 2010, 08:03 PM   #10
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Re: Space Western & Star Trek

DevilEyes wrote: View Post
DS9 seemed to be channelling a lot of Western archetypes in the beginning. The station is the wild frontier; there's a new mayor sent from the Feds, the local deputy who doesn't like the Feds, the no-nonsense local sheriff, the roguish bartender, the outlaw who formerly terrorized the town and who makes it clear to the new mayor that he's not accepted defeat yet and is going to make things difficult for him.
Nice analysis.
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Old May 9 2010, 10:21 PM   #11
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Re: Space Western & Star Trek

plynch wrote: View Post
DevilEyes wrote: View Post
DS9 seemed to be channelling a lot of Western archetypes in the beginning. The station is the wild frontier; there's a new mayor sent from the Feds, the local deputy who doesn't like the Feds, the no-nonsense local sheriff, the roguish bartender, the outlaw who formerly terrorized the town and who makes it clear to the new mayor that he's not accepted defeat yet and is going to make things difficult for him.
Nice analysis.
I have to give credit to C_Miller, who came up with the comparison in the DS9 forum, and I just thought: "Wow, this is so true!"
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Old June 22 2010, 04:17 AM   #12
jefferiestubes8
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Re: Space Westerns

1. Firefly / Serenity
2. Star Trek
3. Outland (1981) [Peter Hyams' High Noon in Space]
4. Westworld (1973)
5. Back to the Future Part III (1990)
6. Battle Beyond the Stars (1980)
7. The Valley of Gwangi (1969)
8. Timerider: The Adventure of Lyle Swann (1982)
9. Moon Zero Two (1970)
10. Wild Wild West (1999) [Remember, I didn't say all ten movies would be good.]

The Top Ten Most Notable Sci-Fi Westerns

Are the not well known ones worth a rental?
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Old June 26 2010, 05:10 PM   #13
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Re: Space Western & Star Trek

Star Trek was never based on Westerns. Roddenberry pitched it that way because it was a popular genre at the time. It's more like any one of a number of navy shows/movies. It's more Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea than Wagon Train.
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Old June 27 2010, 07:03 PM   #14
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Re: Space Western & Star Trek

DevilEyes wrote: View Post
plynch wrote: View Post
DevilEyes wrote: View Post
DS9 seemed to be channelling a lot of Western archetypes in the beginning. The station is the wild frontier; there's a new mayor sent from the Feds, the local deputy who doesn't like the Feds, the no-nonsense local sheriff, the roguish bartender, the outlaw who formerly terrorized the town and who makes it clear to the new mayor that he's not accepted defeat yet and is going to make things difficult for him.
Nice analysis.
I have to give credit to C_Miller, who came up with the comparison in the DS9 forum, and I just thought: "Wow, this is so true!"
Kira Nerys as the former gunslinger now working on the side of the law.

Voyager was western too, moving through "Indian Territory," pioneering new routes, meeting new cultures, trading for what you need, making temporary treaties, very much cut off from "back east."

Enterprise was of course F Troop.

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
It's more Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea than Wagon Train.
Perhaps the first season of Voyage, people forget that the first season of Voyage was played serious, there were some very good cold war dramas, spy episodes and straight (no monsters) adventures. So Trek as the first season Voyage is a compliment.
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Old June 27 2010, 07:23 PM   #15
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Re: Space Western & Star Trek

Voyager was western too, moving through "Indian Territory," pioneering new routes, meeting new cultures, trading for what you need, making temporary treaties, very much cut off from "back east."

Enterprise was of course F Troop.
I think you got that backwards.
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