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View Poll Results: Grade Iron Man 2
Excellent 60 36.36%
Above Average 67 40.61%
Average 29 17.58%
Below Average 6 3.64%
Terrible 3 1.82%
Voters: 165. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 8 2010, 05:45 AM   #151
DarthPipes
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Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

Iron Man 2 is the rare sequel that doesn't surpass the original. It's no Dark Knight, Spider-Man 2, or X-Men 2.

It's not a bad movie mind you. I found the cast to be by and large very good. I loved Rhodie's storyline. Don Cheadle is a much better actor than Terrance Howard and made a very convincing War Machine. Scarlett Johannsenn was beautiful and did a good job. Downey is Downey and he's very good. Good supporting turns by Samuel L. Jackson, Jon Favarau, and Garry Shandling as well. The O'Reilly Factor bit was clever. Liked the first fight with Whiplash. Terrific FX once again. And hey, love the Marvel connections throughout this film.

But it has a number of factor going against it. The narrative structure isn't very strong. If people didn't think there was enough action in the first one, there isn't exactly a lot in the second one. The final battle scene is anti-climatic and very short. We rarely see Tony as Iron Man. We hear about all the great things he does but see very little of it. The humor, which worked so well in the first film, is on completely overdrive here and a lot of this film comes off as overly silly. Downey's funny but the Stark character he plays (really, he's just playing himself) is ratcheted up by about 100% and it's excessive.

Perhaps the biggest flaw is this film has a very, very weak presence in terms of villains. Mickey Rourke's character says little and does little. After being convincingly defeated by Stark early in the film, he just lurks in the background until the end where he is again convincingly beaten by Iron Man and War Machine. I'm a fan of Sam Rockwell but I found his character to be largely annoying. There's no sense of menace in either of these characters and as a result, they feel like they're not a threat at all.

Rourke's character for instance is supposed to represent what Tony Stark could have become. But the connection is very weak and not all all developed.

It's an enjoyable flick but I feel like the producers decided not to try too hard when they did this film.
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Old May 8 2010, 05:52 AM   #152
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Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

Agreed that Tony's descent didn't have the affect it should have. He comically hits rock bottom instead of doing it seriously. They show some signs on taking it seriously but it's done for laughs. Too bad...it would have been compelling to see Downey do Demon in a Bottle.

Did they Americanize The Black Widow? It's interesting because they really didn't need to. In real life, Russia is so paranoid they would absolutely flip out at the prospect of someone having a suit of war like Iron Man. Especially if he were American. They would go to work instantly trying to replicate the technology. Rogue nations would take a lot longer than countries like Russia and China in trying to replicate the Iron Man costume.
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Old May 8 2010, 05:55 AM   #153
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Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

tomalak301 wrote: View Post
Also, what about the scene in the commercial with Iron Man having to retrieve the helmet. I guess it was just a commercial, but it would have been appropriate in the movie.
It was filmed but cut Faverau thought the new beginning was better. It's become a deleted scene.

'Go get em boss/ you complete me' bit officially cut

At a press conference held last Friday in support of Paramount and Marvel Studios’ "Iron Man 2," director Jon Favreau explained why Tony Stark’s grand entrance -- a moment seen in the trailers -- was cut from the final theatrical version. "We had different versions of things that we tried. That was something that was a great image -- a scene that's going to be on the DVD -- but we had two different versions of it and because of the pacing [we had to cut it],”said the director. It came down to just how he wanted to introduce Tony into the sequel. "It felt really good to flow into the drop down and reveal him for the first time on the stage. For those of you who haven't seen the movie, it doesn't make any sense, but often times in the editing room we figure out what combinations of scenes..."
At that moment, Favreau was interrupted by star Robert Downey, Jr. "Gwyneth is just finding out that that scene was cut, Jon. You might be a little more tactful," he interjected.
Paltrow laughed, "Nothing would surprise me anymore."
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Old May 8 2010, 05:56 AM   #154
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Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

^Given the overall tone of the movie, I think they cut out the wrong scene.
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Old May 8 2010, 06:04 AM   #155
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Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

Dream wrote: View Post
I saw the film at midnight. It was very good, but it could have been better. Above Average.

The most exciting part of the entire movie was the first fight between Whiplash and Iron Man on the racetrack. I wasn't a big fan of the Tony dying plot since I never really got the feeling that he was any kind of danger. It should have focused entirely on his alcohol problem, but I was glad his drinking problem was there. The middle section of the movie dragged a little, but it came back with a strong finish. As usual RDJ did a great job, along with all the supporting actors. Mickey Rourke did well with what he was given. I watched Moon recently and loved it, and was very surprised to see Sam Rockwell as Hammer, which he was very funny as.

The way Happy Hogan ended his fist fight with the guard and War Machine using the "Ex-Wife" on Whiplash got the biggest laughs from the audience that I was with. The Iron Man movies have always had much better humor than the Spider-Man movies.

Now it's time to use Mandarin in Iron Man 3!
Totally agree with you that they should have replaced the Tony dying storyline with more of a focus on his alcoholism. There was no drama in the "Tony's dying" storyline because we knew he wasn't going to die. Like you though, I'm glad they made some acknowledgement of his alcoholism but it should have taken a more central role. They should have stuck with a more loyal adaptation of Demon in a Bottle.

Totally agree as well that Iron Man's humor is much better than Spider-Man. In costume, Spider-Man was always missing the great one-liners in his films.
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Old May 8 2010, 06:13 AM   #156
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Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

Well that was surprisingly... lame. From the reviews I knew not to get my hopes up TOO high, but I still expected something more entertaining and fun than that.

Nothing about this seemed to really click at all. The story seems perfectly fine, and seems like it should work, but the whole movie felt strangely dull and lifeless for some reason.

In fact the only time the movie really sparked to life for me, ironically, was when Scarlett's Black Widow started kicking ass at the end. None of the actual Iron Man scenes were half as good as that, I didn't think (hell, the scene in the first movie of Tony simply putting on the silver Mark II suit was cooler than anything here).
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Old May 8 2010, 07:15 AM   #157
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Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

Lt. Trull wrote: View Post
Shazam! wrote: View Post
Man, I can't wait for Thor. I do hope it's more Asgard and magic and that rather than taking the Ultimates route.

I noticed they flashed past thor in the movie too fast also, when tony was walking down the police hallway to talk to venko.
that's not Thor. Favreau said Hemsworth isn't in the film
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Old May 8 2010, 07:41 AM   #158
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Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

I just got back from seeing the film, I enjoyed it. I was sort of hoping the end battle would have been a little longer. The film followed the same role every superhero #2 film follows..."the troubled / conflicted superhero". I was sort of expecting the film to end with the scene from the trailer, when Pepper throws the helmet out of the plane.


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Old May 8 2010, 08:22 AM   #159
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Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

When the Hammerroids took off at Stark Expo, I had strong *sentinels* vibes!
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Old May 8 2010, 10:13 AM   #160
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Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

DarthPipes wrote: View Post
Iron Man 2 is the rare sequel that doesn't surpass the original. It's no Dark Knight, Spider-Man 2, or X-Men 2.
Huh? The majority of sequels fall flat, usually because they just try to do the same thing over again but with a larger budget. The Dark Knight, The Empire Strikes Back, etc., are the exception, not the norm.
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Old May 8 2010, 01:40 PM   #161
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Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

I liked it, but I didn't love it. I liked the first IM film better.

What I did like about IM2:

-Cast. Of course the regulars but the new additions were good choices too, especially Rourke and Johannsen. I wasn't expecting much from SJ, but I thought she handled her role pretty well. I was hoping she would speak with a Russian accent at least once, but as one of the other posters said, if she's a master spy she would probably speak flawless English. I did enjoy her fight scene toward the end. Could there be a Deadpool and Black Widow movie in the offing? That might be sweet. Garry Shandling was also great. I hope they bring him back.

-More action. The first IM didn't have enough action, enough of Iron Man in action, though I can understand since it was an origin film. IM2 ramped up the action and I thought that was a good thing. It was really cool to see War Machine and Iron Man kicking ass.

-FX were pretty top notch.

What I didn't care for regarding IM2:

-Hammer. I thought Rockwell did a good job with the material. He's good at playing the weasel, but the character was so wimpy. I was expecting him to freak out and attempt to harm Pepper at the end, but he just stood there, even after Pepper called the cops. Seems like he would've at least called his lawyer. From what I recall, the comic Hammer was much more ruthless and a worthy adversary. He pushed Tony over the brink. But I did like what one of the posters said about film Hammer being a buffoon, a failed attempt at trying to be Tony Stark. And Rockwell did convey the frustration and the envy of his character. His Hammer was good, but never good enough. And though he tried to be cool he never was.

-Vanko. As many felt, I thought Rourke was underused. He was good with what they gave him. However, I had misgivings about his character as soon as I heard that he would be a composite of Whiplash-Blacklash and Crimson Dynamo. I wish they had just made him the Crimson Dynamo straight up. I would've loved to see that armor design in the film. I think Vanko's motivation would've worked better for me, and it would've added more depth to his beef with Tony if Howard Stark had actually stolen the technology/ideas from Anton. That would've given his animus more resonance. Upon reflection, I think Whiplash was the wrong villain to use for this story. I think the Ghost would've been better.

-Skirting the alcoholism. I think it was a mistake not to focus on that, instead of the technology killing him part. And the Tony-Rhodey fight, 'intervention', was poorly done. I think I can see what they were trying to do, to show how Tony had become a danger to himself, but the way it was done, the cause was that he was just partying because he thought he was dying and not because of his alcoholism. So they never really had to address that.

The party/fight scene also got Rhodes into armor fast, but it didn't come off as believable to me. In fact, it felt rushed like Rhodes was itching to jump in the armor as soon as he got to the party. I guess Tony was 'giving' Rhodes the armor though that was implied later, but I didn't care for how he just took the armor and took it to the military, especially after Tony had explicitly told the Senate that the armor was his property. Seems like there would've been a legal issue there. I also don't see Rhodes, being his friend, going against Tony's express wishes like that. Or giving that type of weapon to the military especially when guys like Hammer could get their hands on it. I was hoping this plot would be the impetus for Rhodes to resign from the military. I believe he was ex-military in the comic when he became Iron Man and later War Machine anyway.

-Demon in a Bottle/Armor Wars-I guess both of these story lines were sort of used in IM2, which is a shame because I had hoped each would be used to better effect and each could be there own movie. Now its doubtful that either will be revisited.

-Plot: After the Senate hearing, it seemed like there was no real plot. Just a lot of different scenes strung together, with nothing really making the narrative cohesive. In the first film, Stane was moving things behind the scenes, his machinations were helping propel the movie to a conclusion. Here, Hammer was just sort of there and Rourke was holed up in a room with a bird for far too much in the film.

-Nick Fury: I didn't care for him all that much this time around. I can't put my finger on it, but he didn't feel like Nick Fury, like a high-ranking intelligence agent and isn't Ultimate Fury also a general? Perhaps he wasn't hard ass enough for my taste. I would've liked something more like Andre Braugher's general in Fantastic Four 2. Though on reflection, it was cool to see him and SJ together again. Brought back memories of the Spirit. It might be neat to do a SHIELD movie with him and SJ.
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Old May 8 2010, 03:11 PM   #162
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Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

Aragorn wrote: View Post
DarthPipes wrote: View Post
Iron Man 2 is the rare sequel that doesn't surpass the original. It's no Dark Knight, Spider-Man 2, or X-Men 2.
Huh? The majority of sequels fall flat, usually because they just try to do the same thing over again but with a larger budget. The Dark Knight, The Empire Strikes Back, etc., are the exception, not the norm.
Let me correct that. Iron Man 2 is one of the rare SUPERHERO movies that is not better than its original. Generally the most sucessful superhero movies in recent years have had sequels that were superior. The Dark Knight, Spider-Man 2, and X-Men 2 were all better than their original films. Iron Man 2 disappointned.

-Demon in a Bottle/Armor Wars-I guess both of these story lines were sort of used in IM2, which is a shame because I had hoped each would be used to better effect and each could be there own movie. Now its doubtful that either will be revisited.
Yeah, they shot their load on this and shot it poorly.
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Old May 8 2010, 05:12 PM   #163
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Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

DarthPipes wrote: View Post

Let me correct that. Iron Man 2 is one of the rare SUPERHERO movies that is not better than its original. Generally the most sucessful superhero movies in recent years have had sequels that were superior. The Dark Knight, Spider-Man 2, and X-Men 2 were all better than their original films. Iron Man 2 disappointned.
Well, the first Iron Man was a lot more awesome than any of those other franchises' origin films, so I'll accept the slightly less awesome sequel.
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Old May 8 2010, 05:13 PM   #164
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Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)

Batman Begins is way better than The Dark Knight.
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Old May 8 2010, 05:20 PM   #165
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DarKush wrote: View Post
-Nick Fury: I didn't care for him all that much this time around. I can't put my finger on it, but he didn't feel like Nick Fury, like a high-ranking intelligence agent and isn't Ultimate Fury also a general? Perhaps he wasn't hard ass enough for my taste. I would've liked something more like Andre Braugher's general in Fantastic Four 2. Though on reflection, it was cool to see him and SJ together again. Brought back memories of the Spirit. It might be neat to do a SHIELD movie with him and SJ.
Ultimate Fury, is indeed a general, as he heads SHIELD.

as for Andre Braugher's general in F4 II, he's basically Ultimate Fury with no eye-patch and a different name. they even ripped off a scene from Ultimate Extinction with the bit about Reed not being on the high school football team and whatnot in the forest.


ah, this bit:

General Hagen: No you don't understand. So let me make it clear for you and your pack of freaks here. I'm the quarterback. You're on my team, got it? But I guess you never played football in high school, did you Richards? Reed Richards: No, you're right, I didn't. I stayed inside and studied, like a good little nerd. And fifteen years later, I'm one of the greatest minds of the 21st century, I'm engaged to the hottest girl on the planet, and the big jock who played quarterback in high school? Well he's standing right in front of me asking me for my help. And I say he's not gonna get a damn thing, unless he does exactly what I tell him, and starts treating my friends and me, with some respect.
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