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Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old May 7 2010, 03:55 PM   #31
Epsilon-9
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Re: Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan in 70mm

This is view of the THX cinema where I saw all 70mm Star Trek films in glorious six-track Dolby.

Lots and lots of searching around, the internet too find these (secondary pictures) to create the thread. I have several pictures of my own













And this is today how it looks!

One chap that was involved with the 2006 refit provided these pictures.







Full thread at Lansing Heritage
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...L-installation!
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Old May 7 2010, 08:02 PM   #32
Indysolo
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Re: Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan in 70mm

Interesting that this thread got bumped recently.

All of the original Trek films will be playing in 70mm in LA this summer (though I don't really believe TMP will be shown that way).

Neil
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Old May 7 2010, 10:08 PM   #33
Epsilon-9
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Re: Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan in 70mm

Indysolo wrote: View Post
Interesting that this thread got bumped recently.

All of the original Trek films will be playing in 70mm in LA this summer (though I don't really believe TMP will be shown that way).

Neil
Wow I’d define anyone that on this site that doesn’t live within a 100 miles of LA! 70mm Dolby =

I’ve had my share of Star Trek 70mm six-track Dolby stereo JBL THX to last a lifetime. Well I’m still living it, to this day.

I'll spared the word!


Edit: this is how they make there money with each film on Saturdays at $10.00 each.

Saturday June 12th
Star Trek The Motion Picture
(PG • 147 min.) 11:55pm

Saturday June 19th
Star Trek I I The Wrath Of Khan
(PG • 128 min.) 11

Saturday 26th June
Star Trek I I I The Search For Spock
(PG • 120 min.) 11:55pm

Saturday July 10th
Star Trek I V The Voyage Home
(PG • 134 min.) 11:55pm

Saturday July 17th
Star Trek V The Final Frontier
(PG • 122 min.) 11:55pm

Saturday July 24th
Star Trek V I The Undiscovered Country
(PG • 128 min.) 11:55pm


The Star Trek marathon that I saw 20 years ago was only £10.00 for the whole day in THX!


Also it would be very interesting feedback on the conduction of the 70mm prints after so many years. Any picture fading colour scratches and any lose to the magnetic tracks.
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Old May 7 2010, 11:35 PM   #34
Captain Rob
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Re: Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan in 70mm

Man, nothing beats seeing Star Trek in a real movie theatre, especially in 70 mm. Wish I could go.
Fantastic pictures. That's one big auditorium.
As for damaging speakers. When we ran the THX logo on full blast (10) on opening night of "Top Gun"; I made sure to stand in the back of the auditorium. The surround cabinets were hung with chains but the cabinet bottom edge only rested on a metal track. At the loudest part of the logo, one of the cabinets started hopping in it's track. That's thew last time we ran it that loud. The only thing louder at that show was the squadron of F-14 pilots (Naval Aviators) that we got from the local Naval Air Station. They showed up in their flight suits and answered questions before and after the show.
While I was at the Northstar in 2003 we had Christie LCD digital projectors installed by Regal Cinemedia ( now National CineMedia). These were for running digital ads and special presentations. Each auditorium's projector was connected to it's own computer. After reading through the projector's manual I discovered that other stuff could be plugged into it. I was able to plug my XBox into it and into the non-sync input for the THX sound system. One night after work I just popped in my STVI DVD and it looked and sounded pretty good.
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Old May 8 2010, 12:22 AM   #35
Epsilon-9
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Re: Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan in 70mm

Captain Rob

You should have ran it side by side with 70mm print, reduce the image size somehow and project the two at the same time on the same screen for comparison. LOL Its easy the 70mm will win!

You just knew it was loud. So I assume you didn’t use an SPL db meter. The highest I’ve noticed at the Empire in recent years since attending again back around 2007 for “Transformers” was 120dbc on the highest peak low frequency moments.

That would be when Iron Hide flipped over a screaming girl. Wow just low end pressing on my body and the stillness in the background was (rattle vibration free) now that is sound system where you only hear the sound, without distractions!

I can even recall “The Hunt For Red October” Dolby SR at UCI when I worked there. I think it was screen 5 or 6? At the time it was interlocked just moved from screen 5 to 6 on pair legs that it grew overnight.


The scene where the Red October is underwater, well there was many scenes like it, it was somewhere in the 2 to 3 reel. The frame that holds the stage speakers centre channel rattled! Now that was distracting.

I only popped in the auditorium for quick listen. Amazing how very few of us can remember events small events in cinema from 20 or 30 or even nearly 40 years back.

Also a few later I went to see film there, (no longer working for them) I think it was, oh, bugger! I have the tickets still I’d need to flip though them because I’d often write a small comment on the back of the ticket.

Type of presentation
Scope or W/S
Dolby A/SR
Overall presentation

The title will come to me, I’m 100% I have it on DVD.
It was the same issue of vibration buzzing the frame support wasn’t that good if played high or with low frequencies at high SPL db.

I do recall "Tango & Cash" in Dolby SR /scope and one the other projectionist turned up the Dolby fader to nearly 10! When it was set by the chief below “7” usually 5.5 to 6.5 the chief would have skinned him alive if he saw him. "Okay let's do it" [deep bass line music]

It did how ever result in damage to one of the surrounds in the auditorium. I think it was in screen 4 or 3 at the time, after playing for weeks in screen 6 I believe.

The surrounds should give even unnoticeable smooth even frequency response, without telling which one is playing? Well they all had the same, sound from the matrix surround.

With one busted in, I think it was the second one from the back on the (was it left or right?) It was the second one from the back.

There was 6 in the small screens with an odd one placed right at the very back because of the shape of the auditoriums. Only screen 5 and 6 was an even shape that was mirrored.

The surround just rattled all the time, and I just couldn’t help looking up at. Yes it was on the left! I was sat on the right far outer seat that is near to the centreline. Yes it was left, surround, that was done in.

“Always” in Dolby stereo type A with the fire extinguisher on Hal’s airplane sounding overhead or all-around got my attention looking up and all around as that was point to create diffusion/defocusing the surround.

Gordon Bennett, I can’t even find a picture of UCI or Empire cinema Tower Park on Google image. It doesn’t surprise me at all.
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Old May 8 2010, 09:06 AM   #36
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Re: Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan in 70mm

While STVI sounded good through the XBox digital projector connection; it didn't look very good. The morons from Regal Cinemedia didn't believe in adjusting the picture to fill the screen properly. Also the relatively tiny lamps in the digital projector didn't throw near enough light as a 4.5KW xenon bulb. He had first tested the setup with the game Halo 2 and a set of good wireless controllers. After that test several of my employees would have volunteered to work for free if they could just play Halo on the big screen.
Since the image from the digital projector didn't match up with the film projector's image we were constantly getting complaints from our customers. I've been to other UA, AMC, and Cinemark theatres that now use the same system, and they have the same problem. I even complained to our Cinemedia tech about the ads ending late and his reaction was basically "They don't end late." I'm like "If the movie is supposed to start at 7:00 I should be able to walk to the projector at exactly 7:00 and press Start, and not have 4 to 5 minutes of ads left to run." At the end of the ad presentation there's a cue frame with the logo and a little projector icon in the corner indicating that it's time to start. There's even a flashing green light on the automation panel that flashes for 30 seconds. If the projector is late or early starting the system generates an error message that goes to corporate. Even the server in the booth that controls everything was the time displayed as a screensaver. And it's clock is right. Regal's doing this on purpose and now apparently every theatre that uses National Cinemedia has their movies starting late. I saw Star Trek XI five times at both AMC and Cinemark locations and they were all late. And one time the projectionist started the wrong movie.
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Old May 8 2010, 03:38 PM   #37
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Re: Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan in 70mm

Yeah I remember those panels.

Amber was it needs to laced-up if I fully recall.
Green ready to run the show/
Red! Well that’s not good at all! LOL Ether the film has got jammed in the (film gate or there is huge pile of film snowballing up on the cake platter) LMAO

Oh, yeah I’ve seen it.

Hey it happens its called working stress and worry.

I’ve even laced-up the wrong film for the afternoon kiddie’s mommies.

I think it was one of the smaller screen 3 or 4 well there in the same booth together!

Yeah the task was look at the (white wipe) for film title. Okay its “All dogs go to heaven”

I walked around to find the head-leader on the film removed the centre halo ring placed it on the wind-off platter, placed the film feeder in the centre hole on the platter, started thread the film though and up and down and around the rollers to the projector and back to the platter.

Then started to clean down the lens sprockets sound head and film gate and aperture plates with bush, then finally using Co2 air to give it a good spotless clean off.

Started to lace-up with plenty of time (mind you I was only a trainee at the time). I started at top sprocket down to the film gate around and over the intermittent sprocket over the sound head then locked up the film gate (checked the racking) also checking the loop on the (intermittent sprocket) for the correct size. Too wide not good! Too narrow not good!

I checked the lens for W/S as “All dogs go to heaven” was 1.85:1W/S. waited for the auditorium to be full well it was afternoon, there was only 20 or so waited for the time and then started up the projector.

Opened the dowser faded the Dolby fader up to what was said on the (white wipe board) adjusted focus on white titles, and just let UCI logo play out with adds and trailers!..And that was when I heard a knock on the booth door, during the trailers.

The usher was saying. “You’ve got the wrong film on” LMAO Oh, my god! I had to ask a co-worker to sort this out as I wasn’t trained or haven’t been fully briefed enough about playing the wrong film.

Hundreds or feet of film had passed though by then. The projector was stopped and bullshit usher told the audience, “We have problem”. LOL

It only took about 15 minutes to sort it out. Otherwise the mommies and kiddies would be treated to “Society” rated 18 I guess I'm an early version of "Tyler Durden" only its not single frames of pornography spliced into a family film, its the whole full Monty!

If the usher had left too early I would have walked out the booth, not knowing what film the families was watching?
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Old May 8 2010, 03:47 PM   #38
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Re: Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan in 70mm

Hey lucky folks who get to these showings................

It has always been said that the 70mm version of TWOK has a few other minor differences from the 35mm version besides the lack of 'II' in the title.

Specifically for one, the part in the pod with Kirk, Sulu, McCoy etc has a couple of lines not in the other cuts.

NO, not the entire Sulu's 'promotion' dialogue, but a few more words by Sulu before they cut to the exterior shot of the pod.

will anybody who sees this please check to see if this is true?

I would really appreciate it!!
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Old May 9 2010, 11:24 AM   #39
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Re: Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan in 70mm

Oops; my goof about the indicators for the digital ads system. I know the panel you're talking about. Some of the theatres i worked at had them and some didn't. What I was talking about was a little black box with a reset button and a multicolored LED on it that wired into the computer that controlled the digital projector. The computer was also wired into the automation system. The reset button would manually restart the stack of ads running. And the LED would flash green when it was time to start the projector. It would flash red if the projector had not been started yet or there was a problem.
I can say for sure that I never ever ran the wrong movie. Accidentally started to thread the wrong one a few times; bur never started the wrong one. I did have a new projectionist start the wrong movie once. She freaked out when she discovered it. It amazes me that some people can't figure out what to do. Luckily it was still in the previews, so I had her run it down to where the next preview was about to come off of the platter. She stopped it and I broke the splice and had her run the film through the projector and onto the take-up platter. Then I took the center ring with the film off and had her thread up and start the proper film. I don't know what you guys call it over there but I did what we called a center-drop. That's were I take the center ring with the film and place it on top of the rest of the print on the feed-out platter. Then I carefully cut out the torn splice and resplice the film. Then gently pull the center ring out and work the film into the middle of the feed-out platter; forming small loops if neccessary. I was about the only one who could do it successfully every time, and I could do it with up to about a reel's worth of film. I've done it with more but it can look like a mess.
I did have another new projectionist who started the wrong movie. After he discovered his mistake he didn't bother to stop it. At least he came and got me. When I got to the projector and saw it still running I asked "Why didn't you stop it?" His reply was "I don't know." He didn't last long.
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Old May 9 2010, 12:51 PM   #40
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Re: Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan in 70mm

That’s a good bit of thinking guess it cut time down by minutes, rather than undoing the whole thing! LOL

Even almost placed it back to front and that can be easily done.

Always make sure the soundtrack is facing you!

If the soundtrack is on the opposite side then exciter lamp light beam won’t shine on the photo optical soundtrack. Also the image will be reversed, (no you don’t say). LOL

One projectionist even forgot to flip the (W/S lens) over to (scope lens for “The Hunt For Red October”) in screen 5. By the time I noticed it peering though the port window after being in another booth,. I noticed all the image was stretched vertically. The film had been running for 15 minutes and the audience didn’t even notice or a complaint made to management. Just goes to show not how many of them are technical advanced.

I guess you might have seen a xenon explode? I wasn’t there to see or hear go kaboom! After the word got around that xenon lamp exploded in one of the smaller screens, (was it screen 3 and 4).

The show was only delayed hey what can, you do. The mess inside was like sugar! Wow that must have been some explosion to shatter it, into (millions of fine shards of broken glass), that had to be swept up with (dustpan and brush) and finally vacuumed out to make sure the lamp house was free from any small pieces.

In the training we where all, brief never to open up the lamp house while it’s been running, for some time.
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Old May 9 2010, 05:58 PM   #41
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Re: Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan in 70mm

Grant wrote: View Post
Hey lucky folks who get to these showings................

It has always been said that the 70mm version of TWOK has a few other minor differences from the 35mm version besides the lack of 'II' in the title.

Specifically for one, the part in the pod with Kirk, Sulu, McCoy etc has a couple of lines not in the other cuts.

NO, not the entire Sulu's 'promotion' dialogue, but a few more words by Sulu before they cut to the exterior shot of the pod.

will anybody who sees this please check to see if this is true?

I would really appreciate it!!
As I mentioned in the first post of this thread, the "II" is not on the 70mm prints. I started this thread in 2008 after seeing a 70mm print. Even note the title of this thread. The "II" is absent.

That is the only difference however. There isn't any extra dialogue.

Neil
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Old May 10 2010, 07:04 AM   #42
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Re: Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan in 70mm

I guess you might have seen a xenon explode? I wasn’t there to see or hear go kaboom! After the word got around that xenon lamp exploded in one of the smaller screens, (was it screen 3 and 4).
Boy have I. Around 2000 or 2001 at the Northstar we did a test for a new model of ORC 2000 Watt xenon bulb. Luckily it was off season in our smallest auditorium. When I went to start the first show of the day (luckily almost empty), the lamp started fine. After a couple of minutes there was a loud hiss for about 10 seconds and the bulb went out. At least it didn't explode. One of the seals on the bulb blew.We cancelled that show and I later put the old regular bulb back in and it worked fine. Two days later, after my day off, I come back and the engineer doing the test has put in another test bulb into the same projector. Then he leaves. When it comes time to start the first show, I hit start, the bulb strikes. Five seconds later: KABOOM! Luckily I learned years ago to stand behind the lamphouse when you strike a new bulb for the first time. I had assumed that the engineer had tested it before he left. Guess not. That auditorium was down for the rest of the week. This lamphouse was an ORC with a vertically mounted bulb. The exploding bulb sandblasted the reflective coating off of the reflector and the top end of the bulb shot up into the mirror destroying it. I'm glad that those lamphouses have double doors on both sides. Since the projector was running the dowser was open and we ended up with lamp glass (sand) in the shutter housing. They had us tape off the area around the lamphouse like a crime scene. The lucky engineer from ORC got to clean up the mess and repair the lamphouse. The following year we went back to using Christie xenon bulbs. I never ot as many hours off of a ORC bulb as off of a Christie bulb.
Back in 84', the 5K bulb on our main THX auditorium blew during the middle of a show. I was at the other end of the booth when it happened, and it was loud. We got a new Strong lamphouse out of that one. The bulb only destroyed the reflector, but I figured that it was just an opportunity to upgrade to something better. We upgraded the other THX auditorium a couple of weeks later. I'd like to know who the genius was that decided not to label the automation buttons on the side of the lamphouse. All they told us was green for start and red for stop.

The soundtrack facing the wrong way was a trick I used to test new projectionists. As in "Here's a threaded projector. What's wrong with it, if anything."
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Old May 12 2010, 07:00 PM   #43
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Re: Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan in 70mm

I'm going to see the 70mm print at the Laemmle in June. I'll try to take a cellphone picture of the title, just so we can have documented visual evidence of the "II"-less title screen.

If anybody else is going, try to take a digital camera picture, too. (Since this is a one-time revival screening, I doubt the copyright police will be after our heads...)

Why did early prints and very early promotional materials not have the "II", anyway? One rumor I heard was that they wanted to disavow TMP; I don't know how true that is, since TMP wasn't truly a commercial failure even if it was a disappointment.

And conversely, why did they decide to add "II" to the title? It was early enough that all pre-release trailers and posters said "II". Would Nick Meyer know anything about this?

I wonder, did *only* 70mm prints lack the "II"? There are, after all, other cases of initial 70mm prints of films being different from the 35mm run (the 70mm prints of The Empire Strikes Back were quite different from the more "final" 35mm version, for example).

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Old May 12 2010, 07:34 PM   #44
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Re: Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan in 70mm

One of the most fascinating threads on this site...love the behind the scenes stuff you folks are texting about...keep it up..

Rob
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Old May 12 2010, 10:35 PM   #45
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Re: Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan in 70mm

I have a copy of "The making of the Wrath of Khan" (title not exact) around here somewhere. I think that the original intent during production was that TWOK would be the last Star Trek movie. Mainly since Spock died at the end. I don't remember if the "remember" scene was a pick up shot done later or not. I do remember that it was done on the fly to leave the possibility of Spock returning. As production went along the producers began to realize that they had a winner on their hands.
I know I saw TWOK in 70 mm because I later worked at that theatre. I don't remember what the opening title card said. I believe that it's possible that the title card was different because 70 mm prints are usually struck after the 35 mm ones. You have to create a 70 mm master in addition to the standard 35 mm master. And a separate multitrack magnetic soundtrack has to be created.
Back in the 80's those 70 mm prints were hugely expensive. We had a faulty magnetic soundhead partially shread a 70 mm print of "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom" about half-way through it's run. The soundhead manufacturer had to pick up the replacement cost of over $100,000. That was the first 70 mm print I got to build up on my own. I got to learn on "Ghostbusters".
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