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 April 28 2010, 07:08 PM #31 BK613 Fleet Captain     Location: BK613 Re: Shuttlecraft All it takes to settle this in one's mind is to throw some values into a spreadsheet and look at the travel times to various real places. You soon realize that non-FTL impulse (.25c) isn't useful for much outside the solar system if you are stuck in a 24-ft shuttlecraft with next-to-nonexistent amenities. here are some values to use: 1. 499 seconds for light to travel from the sun to the earth (one AU) 2. sun to Neptune's orbit = 40 AU 3. Voyager 1 and 2 = (a little less than) 100 AU 4. one light year = 63241 AU 5. distance to Proxima Centauri = approx 268000 AU non-relativistic travel times ( 0.25c, constant speed, no acceleration times included) 1. 33.27 minutes 2. 1330.7 minutes (22.18 hours) 3. 3326.67 minutes (55.45 hours) 4. 1460.98 days (4 years) 5. 6191.296 days (16.96 years) Now, granted, from our perspective here in the 21st century, 17 years to the next star would be tremendous but only if you are in a craft equipped and provisioned for such a journey. __________________ "The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place." - G. B. Shaw "Haters gonna hate. Gushers gonna gush. Pity those in-between that simply wish to discuss." - Me.
 April 28 2010, 09:42 PM #32 Timo Admiral Re: Shuttlecraft ...I wonder whether the shuttle in "Let That Be" would be sufficiently provisioned. I mean, the Cheronians apparently aren't humans, but "the most incredible physical specimen of all time" as McCoy puts it. And they live for tens of thousands of years each. Perhaps they don't need to eat quite as much per day as humans? And perhaps shuttlecraft are surprisingly capable of recycling breathing air and water, and possibly also solid wastes. A trip of a few decades might have been but a minor inconvenience for Lokai, if not for the unfortunate damage his stolen shuttle had suffered... Timo Saloniemi
April 30 2010, 04:36 AM   #33
BK613
Fleet Captain

Location: BK613
Re: Shuttlecraft

 Timo wrote: ...I wonder whether the shuttle in "Let That Be" would be sufficiently provisioned. I mean, the Cheronians apparently aren't humans, but "the most incredible physical specimen of all time" as McCoy puts it. And they live for tens of thousands of years each. Perhaps they don't need to eat quite as much per day as humans? And perhaps shuttlecraft are surprisingly capable of recycling breathing air and water, and possibly also solid wastes. A trip of a few decades might have been but a minor inconvenience for Lokai, if not for the unfortunate damage his stolen shuttle had suffered... Timo Saloniemi
Never thought of that quite like that; good insight!
Also wonder how many of those thousands of years could be attributed to time dilation. Maybe Lokai and Beal weren't always lucky enough to commandeer FTL vessels in their endless craziness .
__________________
"The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place." - G. B. Shaw
"Haters gonna hate. Gushers gonna gush. Pity those in-between that simply wish to discuss." - Me.

 April 30 2010, 11:46 AM #34 Mytran Commodore     Location: North Wales Re: Shuttlecraft Time dilation would certainly explain their unusual long lived-ness. Fuel consumption, on the other hand...
April 30 2010, 04:40 PM   #35
blssdwlf
Commodore

Re: Shuttlecraft

 Timo wrote: ...I wonder whether the shuttle in "Let That Be" would be sufficiently provisioned. I mean, the Cheronians apparently aren't humans, but "the most incredible physical specimen of all time" as McCoy puts it. And they live for tens of thousands of years each. Perhaps they don't need to eat quite as much per day as humans? And perhaps shuttlecraft are surprisingly capable of recycling breathing air and water, and possibly also solid wastes. A trip of a few decades might have been but a minor inconvenience for Lokai, if not for the unfortunate damage his stolen shuttle had suffered...
The shuttle was stolen for two weeks according to the episode and he was on or near a "commercial space lane" so it is possible he was re-fueling/re-supplying at different star systems he was hopping until he ran into trouble. But there is also the "will" factor that the Cheron folks have where they can apparently drive a ship where ever they want it go and possibly over the limits (like Bele forcing the Enterprise to move along at Warp 10.) Lokai might have pushed the shuttle too hard leaving his last stop going to Ariannas.

 May 7 2010, 03:29 AM #36 Anticitizen Fleet Captain     Location: Black Mesa Research Facility Re: Shuttlecraft Remember, also, that the time in which Star Trek takes place in wasn't established until rather late in the series, what with use of 'stardates' and all. I think the earliest reference, if I'm not mistaken, was regarding Trelane's time-delayed observation of Earth via telescope. Therefore, at the time 'Where No Man Has Gone Before' was filmed and aired, having the ship being lost for over two centuries isn't any sort of big deal on its own. It's only in light of later stuff that it becomes any sort of issue. By my rules, what came first is canon, and later stuff must be reconciled to fit it, not prior. So.. people in later episodes clearly misspoke __________________ The only substitute for good manners is fast reflexes.
May 7 2010, 07:20 AM   #37
Timo

Re: Shuttlecraft

 the time in which Star Trek takes place in wasn't established until rather late in the series [..] the earliest reference, if I'm not mistaken, was regarding Trelane's time-delayed observation of Earth via telescope
True - if you define "rather late" as the second episode after Trelane's telescope incident in airing order, or third in production order. From that episode on, they kept to the "we're 200 years in the future, give or take" version for whatever reason.

One actually wonders if the intent in "Squire of Gothos" ever was to have our heroes 400-500 years in advance of us. A writer or a proofreader could easily think "they are 900 lightyears away, which sounds distant enough; light travels that distance in 900 years; a clever way to show Trelane is out of date, and the audience will get it after a brief explanation - I mean, I did, too!" without ever stopping to think what this meant in terms of fixing the "onscreen now". Or a proofreader could think "500 lightyears doesn't sound like much - let's increase it to 900. Oh, and there's another 500, let's fix that one, too".

Of course, in retrospect, this is the easiest TOS inconsistency of them all to explain away. After all, Trelane had a mobile planet...

Timo Saloniemi

May 7 2010, 05:35 PM   #38
Mytran
Commodore

Location: North Wales
Re: Shuttlecraft

He did, plus a less than perfect knowledge of grasp of the power and tech at his disposal. And he seems to have observed a fair range of time periods on Earth.

But the crew specifically said it was 900 years, didn't they? Well not quite. The person (Jaeger) who identified the 900 year thing was a Geophysicist, not a Historian. Kirk simply agreed with him (and he's not a historian either)

 JAEGER: Notice the period, Captain. Nine hundred light years from Earth. It's what might be seen through a viewing scope if it were powerful enough. TRELANE: Ah, yes. I've been looking in on the doings on your lively little Earth. KIRK: Then you've been looking in on the doings nine hundred years past. TRELANE: Oh, really? Have I made an error in time? How fallible of me. Oh, I did so want to make you feel at home. I'm quite proud of the detail.
Given the numerous references in other episodes to anything from the 20th Century as "ancient", it's not that far fetched to suppose that a non-historian would lump all "ancient" things together. It's not that different to today really, when many people treat the Middle Ages as a time of "knights and castles" - in fact it was a period of tremendous cultural and technological change.

So, if Jaeger also considered the trappings around him to be Medieval, a rough figure of 900 years is not that far off. If the far more precise Mr Spock had identified the period, then we'd be in trouble!

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