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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Grade "Unspoken Truth"
Excellent 3 9.38%
Above Average 11 34.38%
Average 14 43.75%
Below Average 3 9.38%
Poor 1 3.13%
Voters: 32. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 21 2010, 11:53 PM   #61
Sky
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

KingstonTrekker wrote: View Post
Another unsettling aspect of the book...is that Saavik is really presented as pretty much an adopted daughter of Sarek and Amanda. Which makes her more of a sister to Spock...which makes what happened on Genesis more than a bit disturbing...
Yeah, but this I think was disturbing in a good way. Saavik was clearly disturbed by what happened on Genesis; it was one of the main issues of the book. One of the reasons she was so disturbed was because of her relationship with Spock, her mentor, and the son of her adopted parents.

not even mentioning that in other books Saavik and Spock later married!
Yeah, well, those books I just ignore.

I really liked the Amanda-Saavik dynamic of this book.
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Old April 21 2010, 11:59 PM   #62
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

garamet wrote: View Post
Saavik, as a young cadet in TWOK, doesn't yet know this. That's why she's so upset with Spock's "lie." His explanation, "I exaggerated," gives her something to think about, and look at from a different perspective.
That is one aspect of Saavik I really identified with, as a matter of fact. When I was a kid, I was extremely literal-minded (still am, somewhat, I'm an Aspie after all). I remember being told that lying is wrong, so I never did it, and I understood lying as "telling something else than the whole truth". I did not know that some truths were best left unspoken, if you will. Got me in trouble when my French teacher got it in her head to ask me if I enjoyed her class and after that if I liked her as a person... I was 9 years old and answered truthfully, after which she complained to my parents, who then tried to explain to me the idea behind diplomacy and polite non-answers!
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Old April 22 2010, 09:44 AM   #63
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

Thrawn wrote: View Post
You didn't miss anything. The book will explain it all at the end. The kind of confusion you're experiencing was my biggest annoyance with the novel, but it will all get sorted out if you keep at it.
Thank you for that! I figured that if I kept at it, all would reveal itself. I am currently in the section where Saavik has accepted her 'father's proposal, and am wondering what will happen next. The order in which this book is written is frustrating at times, but I am hopeful that the confusion will be worth it in the end.
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Old April 25 2010, 04:54 AM   #64
T'Ressa Dax
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

Sky wrote: View Post
That is one aspect of Saavik I really identified with, as a matter of fact. When I was a kid, I was extremely literal-minded (still am, somewhat, I'm an Aspie after all). I remember being told that lying is wrong, so I never did it, and I understood lying as "telling something else than the whole truth". I did not know that some truths were best left unspoken, if you will. Got me in trouble when my French teacher got it in her head to ask me if I enjoyed her class and after that if I liked her as a person... I was 9 years old and answered truthfully, after which she complained to my parents, who then tried to explain to me the idea behind diplomacy and polite non-answers!


I used to be very literal minded too. And my grandmother learned not to tell a 7 year old to stop being so smart without the proper context. I didn't kinow there were different meanings to the word smart at the time. heh
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Old April 25 2010, 10:02 PM   #65
Ronald Held
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

I just finished it, but do not know what to make of the story.
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Old April 26 2010, 07:33 PM   #66
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

KingstonTrekker wrote: View Post
Another unsettling aspect of the book...is that Saavik is really presented as pretty much an adopted daughter of Sarek and Amanda. Which makes her more of a sister to Spock...which makes what happened on Genesis more than a bit disturbing...not even mentioning that in other books Saavik and Spock later married!

I know that MWB did not write the scene on Genesis or the earlier books (by Sherman and Schwartz) that depict the marriage...and Unspoken Truth is not required to adhere to previous Trek literature plot points....but depicting Saavik so strongly as an adopted daughter of Sarek and Amanda just makes the whole Saavik/Spock dynamic incredibly incestuous.

Makes me wish that Schwartz and Sherman had found a different wife for Spock, rather than Saavik. Also makes me wish that MWB had not connected Saavik so strongly to Sarek and Amanda (although I realize that other books have previously done this as well.)
You know, the “incestuous” angle never occurred to me.

Spock and Saavik may be legal siblings, but there’s no consanguinity (although I understand there’s a faction of fandom that would have Saavik be the illegitimate offspring of Spock and the Romulan Commander from “The Enterprise Incident” –!). They’re no more “blood relatives” than any natural child and adopted child living in the same household. The relationship is even more attenuated by the fact that Spock hasn’t lived in his parents’ home for decades by the time Saavik comes to them as a child.

Having Amanda and Sarek raise Saavik as their own seemed to me like a natural progression from The Pandora Principle. Clowes as good as hints at it by having Saavik go to live with “a foster family on Vulcan” without saying who that family is.

(It’s possible she intended to, but either someone at Pocket or someone at the studio at the time put the kibosh on it.)

Quite recently, Glenn Greenberg sent me copies of the Star Trek: The Untold Voyages series that he did for Marvel in 1998. Issue #2 essentially picks up Saavik’s story immediately after The Pandora Principle, and – guess what? – has her welcomed into Sarek and Amanda’s home.

(And the reason I got access to Greenberg’s work was because he’d heard about Unspoken Truth and wrote to me, and we discovered we’d had exactly the same thought about who should be in charge of Saavik’s upbringing. So there you are.)

I’ve always had the sense that Star Trek has already been written down somewhere. We writers are just grabbing pieces of it as it flows by in the eddies, currents, backwash…
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Old April 26 2010, 08:20 PM   #67
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

^I'm not certain, but I think Vulcan's Heart made the same assumption about Saavik's upbringing, that it was more by Sarek and Amanda than by Spock. I'm sure I read it somewhere years before I read that comic and Unspoken Truth.
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Old April 26 2010, 08:26 PM   #68
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

Christopher wrote: View Post
^I'm not certain, but I think Vulcan's Heart made the same assumption about Saavik's upbringing, that it was more by Sarek and Amanda than by Spock. I'm sure I read it somewhere years before I read that comic and Unspoken Truth.
It's sketchy, but during the wedding ceremony, Saavik addresses Sarek as "Father" and, IIRC, Sarek at least mentally thinks of her as "daughter."

My thought was that it could be interpreted as ritual language ("You're marrying my son, therefore you're part of the family") or as something more personal.
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Old April 27 2010, 02:49 PM   #69
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

May I ask if/why you chose to base Captain Miranova so completely on Helen Mirren?

Don't get me wrong, I liked the character, Dame Helen is one of my favorite actresses, and that was probably my favorite part of the novel, but every time I would read "Galina Miranova," I would think of Mirren's real name, "Ilyena Miranov" (as I imagine I was supposed to) and it yanked me out of the story.
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Old April 27 2010, 06:04 PM   #70
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

starri wrote: View Post
May I ask if/why you chose to base Captain Miranova so completely on Helen Mirren?

Don't get me wrong, I liked the character, Dame Helen is one of my favorite actresses, and that was probably my favorite part of the novel, but every time I would read "Galina Miranova," I would think of Mirren's real name, "Ilyena Miranov" (as I imagine I was supposed to) and it yanked me out of the story.
Yes, it was intentional, meant as an Easter egg for the rare reader who might know Mirren's birth name. (There's another Easter egg "nested" in the name, so to speak, but I'm not telling. )
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Old April 27 2010, 07:17 PM   #71
Agenda
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

Susan Ivanova perchance?
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Old April 27 2010, 09:23 PM   #72
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

Beyond Antares wrote: View Post
Susan Ivanova perchance?
Good guess, but I'm not a B5 fan (*ducks*), and it's a little more obscure than that.

You'd have to be a hardcore Mirren fan...
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Old April 28 2010, 01:24 AM   #73
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

garamet wrote: View Post
You'd have to be a hardcore Mirren fan...
Or else a user of imdb.com. I was close!
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Old April 28 2010, 02:19 AM   #74
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

Beyond Antares wrote: View Post
garamet wrote: View Post
You'd have to be a hardcore Mirren fan...
Or else a user of imdb.com. I was close!
Check out White Nights.
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Old May 13 2010, 10:25 PM   #75
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

I would call Unspoken Truth an average book from MWB and a better-than-average book overall. I loved getting a better look at Saavik's psychology, background, and adopted family. I also loved the worldbuilding involved with the Deemanot. The plot and tone seemed to take a sharp turn when Saavik left the retreat. The spy story was still enjoyable, but it wasn't quite as interesting as what came before. The end sequence explained a little bit too much for my taste. Chapters 18 and 19 could have been essentially removed from the book. I still would have gotten the basic idea of what the V'Shar, Romulans, and Saavik did, and I could have spent more time reflecting about the details of the operations.

This may have little to do with Margaret's work, but both covers for the book are terrible. The blurb on the back gives far too much away, and the front cover image is completely unrecognizable as anything but a generic futuristic city. I don't demand a rendering of Saavik, but the actual cover has no thematic connection or obvious tie-in to the story being told.
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