RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,745
Posts: 5,433,117
Members: 24,838
Currently online: 438
Newest member: Mei'konda

TrekToday headlines

Episode Four of The Red Shirt Diaries
By: T'Bonz on Sep 22

Star Trek: The Compendium Review
By: T'Bonz on Sep 22

Orci Drops Rangers Project
By: T'Bonz on Sep 22

Retro Review: Image in the Sand
By: Michelle on Sep 20

Star Trek: Shadows Of Tyranny Casting Call
By: T'Bonz on Sep 19

USS Vengeance And More Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Sep 19

Trek 3 To Being Shooting Next Year
By: T'Bonz on Sep 19

Trek Messenger Bag
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

Star Trek Live In Concert In Australia
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

IDW Publishing December Trek Comics
By: T'Bonz on Sep 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Tech

Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 23 2010, 04:57 AM   #1
James Wright
Commodore
 
James Wright's Avatar
 
Location: Church Hill, Tennessee
Shuttlecraft

Can someone tell me which class of Federation starship was the first to carry shuttlecraft capable of warp speed?
I know that the E-D had shuttlecraft that could move at warp speeds.
Were the shuttlcraft on the E-A still impulse capable as they were in TOS?
I've checked at Memory Alpha, nothing useful there.

Thank you,
James
__________________
Starship Captain
James Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 23 2010, 05:09 AM   #2
Albertese
Commodore
 
Albertese's Avatar
 
Location: Portland, OR
Re: Shuttlecraft

I don't recall any specific statement that the shuttle's on TOS were impulse-only. In fact, they are shown on screen as performing missions which would implicitly require the use of a warp drive or some sort of FTL system at any rate. I haven't actually watched enough of Enterprise to know for sure, but i bet Archer's shuttlepods were only impulse. But we can be certain that the shuttles from TOS, TAS and all the movies were warp-capable. Exception: The wedge-shaped vulcan shuttle needed an attached warp sled, and was likely not warp-capable on it's own. Prior to ST5:TFF, it was assumed that the ship carried similar craft, but since then, I think e can assume that the refit always carried them too. And they look to have warp engines.

--Alex
__________________
Check out my website: www.goldtoothstudio.squarespace.com
Albertese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 23 2010, 09:36 AM   #3
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Shuttlecraft

The new movie shows a shuttle design that is shaped quite like the TOS one, with minor detail variations only. This shuttle type was used for evacuating a dying starship's crew from what appeared to be hostile territory - so the odds are that this shuttle was warp-capable as well. At least the type had prominent warp nacelles...

The scene was dated at 2233, and is our earliest indication of warp-capable Starfleet shuttles, although the movie offers no solid proof for that capacity. TOS proof for the warp abilities of Kirk's shuttlecraft is more substantial.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 23 2010, 04:32 PM   #4
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Shuttlecraft

The TOS shuttles clearly had warp nacelles. I fail to see how people could ever pretend otherwise.

The Kelvin shuttles (which also had obvious nacelles) *had* to have warp drive, otherwise Nerada would have had plenty of time to recover from George's ramming and kill everyone.

Some of the nuEnterprise shuttles had warp nacelles but not all (also: watch as Kirk and McCoy board a shuttle of a different design to that they land in!).

I was mildly suprised to see a 2258 shuttle with a transporter - but those shuttles closer in size to a runabout and the NX01 transporter didn't take up more than a niche in a corridor. For all we know there was a transporter in that little room at the rear of the TOS shuttles.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 23 2010, 08:35 PM   #5
James Wright
Commodore
 
James Wright's Avatar
 
Location: Church Hill, Tennessee
Re: Shuttlecraft

Gentlemen(snicker), you're forgetting about the Romulan Bird of Prey seen in TOS episode "Balance of Terror", it had nacelles but was only capable of moving at impulse.
In TOS episode "The Menagerie" if the shuttlecraft had been warp capable why didn't it over take the Enterprise? As it is the shuttle used so much fuel trying to catch the Enterprise it didn't have enough fuel to return to Starbase 11.
Was there any mention of a shuttle's speed in either of these episodes "The Menagerie" or " The Galileo Seven"?
Thank you,

James
__________________
Starship Captain
James Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 23 2010, 09:55 PM   #6
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: Shuttlecraft

Keep in mind that for TOS that impulse engines have been implied to be capable of FTL. That's how the SS Valiant got out to edge of the galaxy in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and how also the Enterprise got around when her warp drive was burnt out or damaged...

Regarding the Romulans, we don't know what makes their ships go in TOS. The nacelles might've been just decorative or fuel pods. Or they could've been massive impulse engines.

As for the shuttlecraft overtaking the Enterprise, why would it or how could it? I seriously doubt any warp shuttlecraft would be able to catch an undamaged Enterprise at warp.
blssdwlf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24 2010, 01:22 AM   #7
Lieut. Arex
Fleet Captain
 
Lieut. Arex's Avatar
 
Location: Nav console
Re: Shuttlecraft

James Wright wrote: View Post
Gentlemen(snicker), you're forgetting about the Romulan Bird of Prey seen in TOS episode "Balance of Terror", it had nacelles but was only capable of moving at impulse.
Really? Because it covers distances in time frames only possible if it is capable of FTL flight (@ Wf2). Scotty's line concerns "power", not the drive. A steamship and an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer might use propellers for drive, but a gas turbine engine has a lot more get-up-and-go than a steam boiler. The difference between a M/AM reactor and an impulse fusion reactor would be even greater.
Lieut. Arex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24 2010, 02:56 AM   #8
Albertese
Commodore
 
Albertese's Avatar
 
Location: Portland, OR
Re: Shuttlecraft

James Wright wrote: View Post
Gentlemen(snicker), you're forgetting about the Romulan Bird of Prey seen in TOS episode "Balance of Terror", it had nacelles but was only capable of moving at impulse.
In TOS episode "The Menagerie" if the shuttlecraft had been warp capable why didn't it over take the Enterprise? As it is the shuttle used so much fuel trying to catch the Enterprise it didn't have enough fuel to return to Starbase 11.
Was there any mention of a shuttle's speed in either of these episodes "The Menagerie" or " The Galileo Seven"?
Thank you,

James
Actually I don't recall there being any reference to speed in either episode. But, we do know that the Enterprise was traveling at warp speed while being pursed by the shuttle. Sure, it wasn't caught by the shuttle, but the shuttle did keep up for a good long while. Gots to have a warp drive to keep up with a warp driven starship. "Galileo Seven" doesn't say otherwise (as far as I can remember right now) but it's implied that the shuttle was very far away from the Enterprise when it got lost. Let's not forget "metamorphosis" where Kirk, Spock and McCoy are flying Commissioner Hedford to some far away place in a shuttlecraft. Obviously they were warp-speed distances away from the mothership.

--Alex
__________________
Check out my website: www.goldtoothstudio.squarespace.com
Albertese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24 2010, 03:22 PM   #9
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Shuttlecraft

Gentlemen(snicker), you're forgetting about the Romulan Bird of Prey seen in TOS episode "Balance of Terror", it had nacelles but was only capable of moving at impulse.
Whatever the Romulan propulsive system's true nature, the episode showed that if Kirk chased at warp three, he didn't overshoot the Romulans. So once again, the presence of things that look like warp nacelles is associated with the ability to travel at warp speeds (warp three at least).

In TOS episode "The Menagerie" if the shuttlecraft had been warp capable why didn't it over take the Enterprise?
Because the Enterprise moved even faster. And in this episode, it is established that the Enterprise had been ordered to move at warp - so the shuttle probably was capable of warp one at least, or else Kirk wouldn't have chosen to give chase at all.

Was there any mention of a shuttle's speed in either of these episodes "The Menagerie" or " The Galileo Seven"?
As said, "The Menagerie" has Spock ordering the ship to warp out of orbit:

Starbase ATC: "Starship Enterprise, Commodore. It's warping out of orbit. Refuses to acknowledge our signal."
No speeds are given in the other episode, but the shuttle is lost in a region containing four star systems, and Kirk assumes the shuttle could be in any one of them. Even if the systems are very close to each other, the shuttle seems to be capable of low warp speeds or else it couldn't reach more than one system.

"Metamorphosis" also fails to give speed references. There the shuttle might be traveling between star systems, or then merely departing one star system through a hazardous asteroid belt in order to rendezvous with the ship that would complete the journey to the destination system.

In other TOS episodes, shuttles only seem to travel from orbit to surface and vice versa.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24 2010, 04:36 PM   #10
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Shuttlecraft

Sorry to sound like a stuck record, but the TOS shuttle has warp nacelles. They look EXACTLY THE SAME as the ones on the Enterprise.
Who honestly believes that starfleet would build impulse engines into the exact shape of a warp nacelle? With every detail?

How is there any dispute over this?

Up next: How the transporter on the Enterprise-D was actually a food replicator made in the shape of a transporter.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24 2010, 04:36 PM   #11
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: So what are you reading now? (Part 3)

I actually was a stuck record

Double post begone!
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3

Last edited by King Daniel Into Darkness; April 24 2010 at 08:57 PM.
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24 2010, 08:45 PM   #12
Colonel Midnight
Vice Admiral
 
Colonel Midnight's Avatar
 
Location: Colonel Midnight
Re: Shuttlecraft

^ Was that double post intentional? *laugh*

Just kidding!

Cheers,
-CM-
__________________
FOReWARneD is Forearmed.

0 registered and 0 anonymous users are browsing this forum.
Colonel Midnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24 2010, 09:02 PM   #13
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Shuttlecraft

Nope. Fixed
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24 2010, 09:56 PM   #14
Gagarin
Commander
 
Re: Shuttlecraft

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
Keep in mind that for TOS that impulse engines have been implied to be capable of FTL. That's how the SS Valiant got out to edge of the galaxy in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and how also the Enterprise got around when her warp drive was burnt out or damaged...
Wait, what? SS Valiant had warp drive. At least, they never said that it didn't have warp drive.

Also, there's room for the Enterprise to have remained at warp speeds after contact with the barrier and then having the crystals fail. After all, there's a fade to black and commercial break before the Captains Log...
__________________
"If you need a holodeck to make an interstellar starship on the bleeding edge of the unknown
interesting, something is seriously amiss."
- Straczynski & Zabel
Gagarin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 25 2010, 03:24 AM   #15
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: Shuttlecraft

Gagarin wrote: View Post
blssdwlf wrote: View Post
Keep in mind that for TOS that impulse engines have been implied to be capable of FTL. That's how the SS Valiant got out to edge of the galaxy in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and how also the Enterprise got around when her warp drive was burnt out or damaged...
Wait, what? SS Valiant had warp drive. At least, they never said that it didn't have warp drive.
True, the dialogue only confirmed that the SS Valiant had Impulse drive but they were the engines that battled the magnetic space storm. Also, it was far enough back in time (200 years) that it may or may not have had warp drive since Zefram Cochrane would've been about 37 years old so it could go either way whether warp drive had been invented yet when the Valiant made it to the galactic barrier.

KIRK: This is the Captain speaking. The object we encountered is a ship's disaster recorder, apparently ejected from the S.S. Valiant two hundred years ago.
...
SPOCK: Decoding memory banks. I'll try to interpolate. The Valiant had encountered a magnetic space storm and was being swept in this direction.
KIRK: The old impulse engines weren't strong enough.
SPOCK: Swept past this point, about a half light year out of the galaxy, they were thrown clear, turned, and headed back into the galaxy here...
Gagarin wrote: View Post
Also, there's room for the Enterprise to have remained at warp speeds after contact with the barrier and then having the crystals fail. After all, there's a fade to black and commercial break before the Captains Log...
The Enterprise could have been at warp for a bit after turning back but it didn't last long since Spock announced that they had burnt out the main engines prior to the Captain's Log entry.
blssdwlf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:13 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.