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Old April 24 2010, 06:03 AM   #16
Tiberius
Commodore
 
Re: Explanation for the Borg's many changes

GeorgeKirk wrote: View Post
The Borg is/are a single mind.
Agreed. That mind is the mind of the queen. That's how she keeps coming back - destroying the body doesn't destroy the mind, because the mind is spread throughout the entire collective.
Originally, that mind's sole purpose was the acquisition of new technology. That was all it did: acquire new technology, then use that technology to acquire even more technology.
Actually, that's what Q said.

The life-forms it encountered were beneath notice, not because the Borg were arrogant, but because they were no threat to the Borg and had nothing to do with Borg's directive to acquire technology.
Why does the search for technology eliminate the assimilation of people? Assimilate a scientist, you learn everything he knows about technology. He might have some ideas which are sound but he lacked the ability to actually make those ideas real. With the Borg's resources, they CAN make them real.

And they gotta get drones from somewhere.

In the end, I don't see how the Borg's search for technology and their assimialtion of people are at odds.
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Old April 25 2010, 12:06 AM   #17
GeorgeKirk
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Re: Explanation for the Borg's many changes

Tiberius wrote: View Post
GeorgeKirk wrote: View Post
The Borg is/are a single mind.
Agreed. That mind is the mind of the queen. That's how she keeps coming back - destroying the body doesn't destroy the mind, because the mind is spread throughout the entire collective.
I'm so glad someone else gets this! You'd be surprised how many people want to come up with all these convoluted explanations (many of them involving long-range transporters) for how the Queen "survived" every time the ship we saw her on was destroyed.

Originally, that mind's sole purpose was the acquisition of new technology. That was all it did: acquire new technology, then use that technology to acquire even more technology.
Actually, that's what Q said.
Yeah, I know. That's why I said it.

Why does the search for technology eliminate the assimilation of people?
Because Q explicitly said that the Borg were not interested in the lifeforms that developed the technology they consumed, only the technology itself.
Assimilate a scientist, you learn everything he knows about technology. He might have some ideas which are sound but he lacked the ability to actually make those ideas real. With the Borg's resources, they CAN make them real.
True, and the Queen's ability (or willingness) to consider that was what made her different from the Borg's "original" personality.

And they gotta get drones from somewhere.
In Q-Who, it was established that they basically grew them in test tubes, then gave them implants when they were "born". If nanotechnology had been better-known in 1988 when that episode was written, I imagine that the writers would have made it so that drones would have been "implanted' much earlier, probably as embryos.

In the end, I don't see how the Borg's search for technology and their assimialtion of people are at odds.
Only because the Borg as originally conceived were single-minded consumers of technology. They didn't hold territory, they didn't occupy planets, they only consumed technology. That's not a guess, it was explicitly stated by an omnipotent being. BOBW handled the assimilation thing pretty well (although I think it should have delved a little more into why the Borg suddenly wanted to assimilate people, instead of just mentioning "hey, the Borg didn't do that before") but future stories (especially FC and all of VOY) completely contradicted and the original concept by making it so that the Borg wanted to conquer and enslave the universe because the Queen was a controlling bitch. Basically, the Borg were turned into the ex-wife from Hell.

Now, I grant you that the original Borg were very hard to cram into the TV/movie medium. Everything that was done to them post-Q-Who was done to make them more like "regular" villains. What I've attempted to do is just come up with an in-universe explanation for it that doesn't completely crap all over the "original" Borg, because it was a really good idea.
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Old April 25 2010, 12:42 AM   #18
Tiberius
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Re: Explanation for the Borg's many changes

GeorgeKirk wrote: View Post
Tiberius wrote: View Post
GeorgeKirk wrote: View Post
The Borg is/are a single mind.
Agreed. That mind is the mind of the queen. That's how she keeps coming back - destroying the body doesn't destroy the mind, because the mind is spread throughout the entire collective.
I'm so glad someone else gets this! You'd be surprised how many people want to come up with all these convoluted explanations (many of them involving long-range transporters) for how the Queen "survived" every time the ship we saw her on was destroyed.Yeah, I know. That's why I said it.
This has been my idea of the Borg for a long time now...

Because Q explicitly said that the Borg were not interested in the lifeforms that developed the technology they consumed, only the technology itself.
Their goal was to assimilate technology. And as I said, if assimilating a person can give them information about a technology, then why wouldn't they do it? Especially if they are getting the theoretical principles of a technology that the person has yet to develop.

Think of it like this. lert's say the Bortg want to assimilate human warp drive. They'd go for Zef Cochrane. Now, would they wait while Zef hunts around and scrounges up the material to build his ship, hoping he's not going to die in the meantime and then wait until he launches it, proves that it works and hope he doesn't blow himself up in the process, or are they just going to assimialte him, get his knowledge on the matter and then put together a warp engine using the resources of the entire collective?

I know which I'd do.

True, and the Queen's ability (or willingness) to consider that was what made her different from the Borg's "original" personality.
I don't see the personality as changing. it's just the subconscious and the conscious mind of the Collective. The Borg's actions in Q Who - beaming aboard the Enterprise, chasing the Enterprise and all that - were all a result of the Borg's subconscious mind, like our hearts beating, immune responses etc.

The later things - kidnapping Picard and all - were the Queen making a consciousn decision to do that.

]In Q-Who, it was established that they basically grew them in test tubes, then gave them implants when they were "born". If nanotechnology had been better-known in 1988 when that episode was written, I imagine that the writers would have made it so that drones would have been "implanted' much earlier, probably as embryos.
No, that was Riker hypothesizing. It's entirely possible that those borg babies were children that had been assimilated and were in maturation chambers.

Only because the Borg as originally conceived were single-minded consumers of technology. They didn't hold territory, they didn't occupy planets, they only consumed technology. That's not a guess, it was explicitly stated by an omnipotent being. BOBW handled the assimilation thing pretty well (although I think it should have delved a little more into why the Borg suddenly wanted to assimilate people, instead of just mentioning "hey, the Borg didn't do that before") but future stories (especially FC and all of VOY) completely contradicted and the original concept by making it so that the Borg wanted to conquer and enslave the universe because the Queen was a controlling bitch. Basically, the Borg were turned into the ex-wife from Hell.
The Bortg are after anything that can "add to their own perfection". Be it technology, people or resources. Given the vast amount nof evidence to support this, I think that we can look at Q's line as not being the full story. Indeed, his line could suggest that the search for technology was simply what that particular Cube was doing at that time - it detected the Enterprise, and then investigated it to see if it had any technology they could assimilate.
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