A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)

[Jan]

Aeon wrote:

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Interesting background information, but obviously by the time of Messages From Earth the situation has already started to change and not for the better.

That's one of the cool things about B5 is that we actually get to see the process of those changes and how they can/do occur gradually enough that the people accept them.

Jan

[Reverend]

TheGodBen wrote:

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One thing, the incident on Mars with the Shadow ship would have happened back when Santigo was President, but presumably Santiago wasn't involved (considering the fact that the Shadows killed him). So the Psi Corps must have been working with the Shadows long before Mordin showed up on B5. Interesting.

I won't spoil, but I'll point you in the right direction if you want to come back to this after you're done with the DVDs. The event's on Mars have been previously mentioned by Garibaldi way back in season one's 'Infection' as the first time he and Sinclair met, leading to him being hired on B5 and are depicted across 4 issues of the limited run of Babylon 5 DC comics series. Unfortunately the artwork in those books were a little hit and miss (more miss than hit) and for some reason there's this lame framing device where Garibaldi is telling the story to Keffer while they're stranded on some random planet running away from space hobbits. I don't know why they just didn't tell the story straight up.

As for Morden, his story and that of the voyage of the Icarus is covered in the Novel "The Shadow Within", but yes, as you'll see later on down the line, this and the dig on Mars are related.

Jan wrote:

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That's one of the cool things about B5 is that we actually get to see the process of those changes and how they can/do occur gradually enough that the people accept them.

Jan

What's more it shows that events and circumstances are fluid and every changing. Without getting too much into future events, even when certain situations are "resolved", or so much as they can be it doesn't reset everything back to a status quo, but instead changes things again.

As it was put in 'Signs and Portents': "We create the future with our words, our deeds and with our beliefs."

[Aeon]

Jan wrote:

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That's one of the cool things about B5 is that we actually get to see the process of those changes and how they can/do occur gradually enough that the people accept them.

Jan

Yeah, something like this doesn't happen overnight.

[Forbin]

100 Pages!

[Jan]

Forbin wrote:

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100 Pages!

And just reaching the "Point of No Return"

Jan

[JoeD80]

Reverend wrote:

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for some reason there's this lame framing device where Garibaldi is telling the story to Keffer while they're stranded on some random planet running away from space hobbits. I don't know why they just didn't tell the story straight up.

Because it had to connect to real time of season 2 somehow. I think it worked quite well like that myself, and the art for these issues was better than the earlier ones.

[Reverend]

JoeD80 wrote:

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Because it had to connect to real time of season 2 somehow. I think it worked quite well like that myself, and the art for these issues was better than the earlier ones.

Oh I get that they were connecting it to Season 2, I just don't think it was necessary, or if they absolutely must have done so the framing narrative needn't have taken up so much of the overall story. I realise this might just be me, but while reading it I couldn't care less about Keffer and the planet of the space hobbits and kept skimming past until it got back to the Mars story.

It would have been better if it was just Garibaldi telling someone the story without so much interruption or in such a contrived circumstance.

As for the artwork in the issues, yes they defiantly got better over time and by 'In Valen's Name' it had gotten pretty damn good.

[Sean_McCormick]

Jan wrote:

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And just reaching the "Point of No Return"

Jan

I'm so envious of TGB, that he is about to experience the high point of Babylon 5 for the first time.

[CorporalClegg]

^
Haven't we already established posts like that are unwarranted?

[TheGodBen]

Point of No Return (***½)

I don't know, it seems like a point of some return to me. Sure, Earth has collapsed into chaos, but with a title like that I was expecting Sheridan to make his stand, instead he keeps following orders and continues to do everything by the book. The solution to the immediate crisis involving the Night Watch didn't work for me, it was all based on a legal loophole that Sheridan should have picked up on right away rather than waiting until the last ten minutes until the light-bulb went off over his head. I'm not saying that Sheridan should have stood firm, given a speech and swayed the Night Watch to his side, he's no Mark Antony, but I felt the out-clause here was too cheap for the weight of the events. How am I supposed to take EarthGov seriously as a threat when they can't even file paperwork correctly? How am I supposed to take the Night Watch seriously when they all walk into a trap willingly? Who was providing security on the station while all these guys were marching towards the docking bay in slow motion? Why did Sheridan have trouble sleeping when his plan involved hiding in a corridor and only coming out after all the Night Watch guys were sealed away? It's not like as if he even stood up to EarthGov, he was just following the letter of the law.

In short, I really didn't like the ending. I was expecting a knock-out blow, instead I got an awkward pat on the bum.

The rest of that story was good though, the tone was excellent throughout, and I'm very interested in seeing where all this is going.

The b-story with Londo left me ambivalent. It wasn't bad, it just felt like an excuse to have a famous sci-fi figure on screen. That's right, the Queen of Star Trek made an appearance; Scott Bakula. It was confirmed that Londo would become Emperor, which was already hinted at, and we learned that Vir would be Emperor, something which was certainly not hinted at (now prove me wrong). Although I'm not sure if I believe the prophesy of a woman who didn't have the foresight to tell her husband to push up his visit to B5 by a few days before he died of fatal plotitis.

Scott Bakula: 42

[Truth_Seeker]

Jerry Doyle's performance in "Point Of No Return" was truly memorable.

The Security Room scene is one of my favourite Garibaldi moments.

[Lindley]

TheGodBen wrote:

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Why did Sheridan have trouble sleeping when his plan involved hiding in a corridor and only coming out after all the Night Watch guys were sealed away? It's not like as if he even stood up to EarthGov, he was just following the letter of the law.

That wouldn't matter. Sheridan knows the government won't see it that way. At best he'll be removed in short order, now that he's demonstrated he's looking for ways to oppose the new order.

[Deranged Nasat]

TheGodBen wrote:

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It was confirmed that Londo would become Emperor, which was already hinted at, and we learned that Vir would be Emperor, something which was certainly not hinted at (now prove me wrong).

I'm very fond of that scene.

"You will also be Emperor"

...

"Why are you laughing?"



It makes me chuckle every time. As you say, there was no foreshadowing of the Vir-as-Emperor idea prior to this claim, but it works as part of the ongoing "everyone underestimates Vir" business. Of course, again as you say, the issue now is the amount of faith a viewer is willing to put in these prophecies.

[Reverend]

Lindley wrote:

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That wouldn't matter. Sheridan knows the government won't see it that way. At best he'll be removed in short order, now that he's demonstrated he's looking for ways to oppose the new order.

Exactly. He's demonstrated that he's not on-board with the "new order" and I'm sure the news that he's put Narns on the security force will reach Earthdome fairly quickly.

[sidious618]

TheGodBen wrote:

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In short, I really didn't like the ending. I was expecting a knock-out blow, instead I got an awkward pat on the bum.

You say it like an awkward pat on the bum is a bad thing.