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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Grade "Unspoken Truth"
Excellent 3 9.38%
Above Average 11 34.38%
Average 14 43.75%
Below Average 3 9.38%
Poor 1 3.13%
Voters: 32. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 13 2010, 02:06 AM   #46
JD
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

Yeah, I'm gonna have to go with Thrawn here on this one. I really think that the majority of the books we've gotten over the last few years have been absolutely outstanding. Especially Vanguard and Titan, which have, IMO, almost always been very original and have presented us with some very unique new characters, and storylines.
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Old April 13 2010, 12:42 PM   #47
JWolf
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

BrotherBenny wrote: View Post
I'm still, like JWolf, trying to find it in eBook ePub format.
I ended up getting a different format and converting to ePub.
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Old April 13 2010, 06:21 PM   #48
garamet
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

Judith Sisko wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Yeah, the reference to Saavik's chestnut curls makes it clear it's meant to be Curtis.
That did clinch it, didn't it?


I needed to make a decision at the start in order to see and, especially, hear the character in my mind as I was writing.

This book is set between The Pandora Principle and Vulcan's Heart (much closer to the former). IIRC, those authors were careful not to give much if any physical description of the adult Saavik (though there's a lot about her as a child in The Pandora Principle), and I suppose the cover art might have had some effect on my decision, but the main influence was the "voice," and it was Curtis's voice that spoke to me.

That in turn affected the body language, the mannerisms, the facial expressions (always tricky with Vulcans). And, yes, I was aware as I was writing that there's strong partisanship around each actress, and some Kirstie Alley fans might have preferred I'd made a different choice, but as any writer can tell you, sometimes the characters decide for you.
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Old April 13 2010, 08:17 PM   #49
ClayinCA
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

Janeway4Prez wrote: View Post
in today's Trek lit market where authors seem to be given the green light to do whatever they want and churn out amateur fan-fiction disguised as professional, high-class lit it's all fine and accepted.
This seems like a thorough insult not only to the editors of the Trek line, but also to the writers of current Trek fiction, many of whom post here. Besides which, it's a totally nonsensical statement--since Pocket's Star Trek fiction is officially-licensed and professionally published, there's no way it can be classified as "amateur."
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Old April 14 2010, 07:59 AM   #50
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

ClayinCA wrote: View Post
Janeway4Prez wrote: View Post
in today's Trek lit market where authors seem to be given the green light to do whatever they want and churn out amateur fan-fiction disguised as professional, high-class lit it's all fine and accepted.
This seems like a thorough insult not only to the editors of the Trek line, but also to the writers of current Trek fiction, many of whom post here. Besides which, it's a totally nonsensical statement--since Pocket's Star Trek fiction is officially-licensed and professionally published, there's no way it can be classified as "amateur."
Seconded.

Just a thought - could be wrong - can this be the start of another spin-off from the recently-returned Janeway argument?
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Old April 14 2010, 06:20 PM   #51
ClayinCA
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

"There are always possibilities," I suppose.
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Old April 15 2010, 05:31 PM   #52
Sky
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

nx1701g wrote: View Post
Sky wrote: View Post
Mine is being delayed, says Amazon.
Have you been able to pick it up?
It finally arrived and I read it today on the train. Loved the first half, don't quite know what to think of the spy plot and the ending. Saavik's captain was awesome, as were Amanda and Sarek. The first contact stuff was excellent. I must have been very tired at some point, because I somehow missed the point of T'Vaakis' character. I guess I will have to think about this book a bit more.

One thing which really bothered me was the constant repetition of the title. Unspoken truth this, unspoken truth that.
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Old April 15 2010, 07:12 PM   #53
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

Sky wrote: View Post
One thing which really bothered me was the constant repetition of the title. Unspoken truth this, unspoken truth that.
Since several folks have mentioned this, I was intrigued, so I went through the ms. just now and counted.

Not counting the title, "unspoken truth(s)" is used six times.

I'd intended it as a leitmotif, my version of "the wine-dark sea," if you will. Didn't realize it was so intrusive.
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Old April 15 2010, 07:29 PM   #54
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

I'm not saying it did not fit the contexts where it was used.
I just really tend to notice repeating patterns.
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Old April 16 2010, 12:26 AM   #55
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

Sky wrote: View Post
I'm not saying it did not fit the contexts where it was used.
I just really tend to notice repeating patterns.
I do as well, and sometimes they can be intrusive. (Most annoying to me is a character who repeats the same phrase over and over throughout a book. Okay, okay, we get it; this guy is annoying and unimaginative. Enough, already!)

In the case of "unspoken truth," the choice was deliberate. For one thing, the term has fascinated me since I first heard it in "The Enterprise Incident," as the Commander's response to Spock's "It is not a lie to keep the truth to oneself."

I'd never really thought of it quite that way before. It had RL implications, as well as mitigating GR's rather rigid dictum that "Vulcans can't lie."

We saw what happened later with Data blurting out whatever came into his head. Vulcans could not have survived interaction with each other, much less become master diplomats like Sarek, interacting with a variety of aliens, if they always told the complete and absolute truth. There are things known as "tact" and "common sense" that color our truths every day.

Saavik, as a young cadet in TWOK, doesn't yet know this. That's why she's so upset with Spock's "lie." His explanation, "I exaggerated," gives her something to think about, and look at from a different perspective.

The Saavik I was writing about was not that far removed from those events, and the situation I placed her in required her to examine each of her interactions for possible pitfalls.

It's not that Vulcans *can't* lie (any more than "Vulcans have no emotions"), but that they choose not to, except when telling the truth would do more damage.
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Old April 18 2010, 04:58 AM   #56
KingstonTrekker
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

Another unsettling aspect of the book...is that Saavik is really presented as pretty much an adopted daughter of Sarek and Amanda. Which makes her more of a sister to Spock...which makes what happened on Genesis more than a bit disturbing...not even mentioning that in other books Saavik and Spock later married!

I know that MWB did not write the scene on Genesis or the earlier books (by Sherman and Schwartz) that depict the marriage...and Unspoken Truth is not required to adhere to previous Trek literature plot points....but depicting Saavik so strongly as an adopted daughter of Sarek and Amanda just makes the whole Saavik/Spock dynamic incredibly incestuous.

Makes me wish that Schwartz and Sherman had found a different wife for Spock, rather than Saavik. Also makes me wish that MWB had not connected Saavik so strongly to Sarek and Amanda (although I realize that other books have previously done this as well.)
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Old April 18 2010, 02:35 PM   #57
Judith Sisko
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

KingstonTrekker wrote: View Post
Another unsettling aspect of the book...is that Saavik is really presented as pretty much an adopted daughter of Sarek and Amanda. Which makes her more of a sister to Spock...which makes what happened on Genesis more than a bit disturbing...not even mentioning that in other books Saavik and Spock later married!

I know that MWB did not write the scene on Genesis or the earlier books (by Sherman and Schwartz) that depict the marriage...and Unspoken Truth is not required to adhere to previous Trek literature plot points....but depicting Saavik so strongly as an adopted daughter of Sarek and Amanda just makes the whole Saavik/Spock dynamic incredibly incestuous.

Makes me wish that Schwartz and Sherman had found a different wife for Spock, rather than Saavik. Also makes me wish that MWB had not connected Saavik so strongly to Sarek and Amanda (although I realize that other books have previously done this as well.)
MWB's portrayal of Amanda was one of the things I liked about this book. For once Amanda is seen as something more than "Sarek's Human Wife" or "Spock's Human Mother."

(Personally, I never bought into the Spock-Saavik bonding in Vulcan's Heart.)
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Old April 18 2010, 02:54 PM   #58
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

KingstonTrekker wrote: View Post
...but depicting Saavik so strongly as an adopted daughter of Sarek and Amanda just makes the whole Saavik/Spock dynamic incredibly incestuous.
By our culture's standards, yes. But terms like "daughter" and "wife" are merely English translations here; the Vulcan concepts and definitions of family may be rather different, with the English terms being just rough approximations. After all, your son's wife is considered your daughter-in-law. If it's okay to consider a non-blood relative a sort of daughter after she marries your son, then logically it shouldn't be any different to consider her that before she marries your son. That logic seems strange to a human, but we shouldn't assume that other species are obligated to conform to our values and assumptions.
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Old April 21 2010, 09:38 AM   #59
Drizzt
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

I've got a quick question, for those of you who've finished the book. And, I don't mind if your answers spoil the plot for me. SPOILERS BELOW.

I am on about Chapter 12 of "Unspoken Truth". And, I am very confused. Saavik and Mikal were on Earth. Saavik went to a communications station (where she was told that Tolek had died of unknown causes), while Mikal was waiting for her at a tram station. When she returned to the tram station, she blacked out, and woke up in her home on Vulcan. From what she overhears Amanda and Sarek discussing, it sounds as though Sarek nerve-pinched her, and took her home. But, why did he do this? And then, as I proceeded to read after that, the prose discusses how Saavik had an "outburst" at the Tram station. And, she indeed at one point says that she wonders 'if Starfleet will have me' after that 'outburst'. Then, inexplicably, she decides to visit the savants, where she has a violent episode and traipses off into the desert.

So, I am wondering:
1.) What really happened at the tram station? If she was just nerve-pinched and fell over, why would this be such a huge deal, and in regards to her career? Did something else happen that hasn't been disclosed in the story yet?
2.) If all that happened was that Sarek pinched her and took her home....why would he do this?
3.) When did Saavik decide to visit the savants? It seemed like a very random, very abrupt decision. She was sitting in bed, talking with Amanda, and just decided to out there. I am wondering if I missed a reference to this earlier in the story.

Anyway, if anyone can shed some light on this, I'd appreciate it. I know the story is being told out of chronological order, which is naturally confusing, but it just seems like I am missing something, if not several things. Any clarification/info would be greatly appreciated, as I would like to continue reading this book without feeling utterly lost.

Thanks, in advance, for any replies.
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Old April 21 2010, 08:33 PM   #60
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Re: Star Trek: Unspoken Truth - Discussion (Spoilers)

You didn't miss anything. The book will explain it all at the end. The kind of confusion you're experiencing was my biggest annoyance with the novel, but it will all get sorted out if you keep at it.
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