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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Grade "The Needs of the Many"
Excellent 7 17.95%
Above Average 9 23.08%
Average 10 25.64%
Below Average 5 12.82%
Poor 8 20.51%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 5 2010, 02:42 AM   #76
Sci
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
That kind of directive is one worth being disobeyed, if that were the case.
Uh, that's not his choice to make. If the game developers want the tie-in novel to be a certain way, it's his job to make it that way. It's their playground.

But if the authorial intent is to imply that the psychos ARE the typical soldier and that Jake DID somehow do his due diligence...then that says more about the author and editor than anything else by FAR.
And, once again, nobody has presented any actual evidence that this is the case. They've taken ONE case and blown it all out of proportion in order to give themselves a soapbox on which to stand and condemn Martin for being somehow "anti-soldier" -- ignoring contradictory evidence from his previous novels and ignoring the alternate interpretation of the one case from The Needs of the Many that DerangedNasat offered. It's a fairly disgusting personal attack on Martin.
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Old April 5 2010, 06:17 AM   #77
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

Well, if I advocate multi-culturalism ideas and programs, but I say something racist or derogatory towards an ethnicity, even if by accident or taken out of context, my credibility goes to hell. Thats the way I see it here, and it is the basic fact that as a Vet, I am offended by that interview as it portrays a Vet stereotype that is most prevalent on the television rather than reality. I have met quite a few Vets from World War II to the present one, and the vast majority are reserved individuals who speak highly of the service, but rarely the conflict.
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Old April 8 2010, 04:47 PM   #78
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
David cgc wrote: View Post

Well, that name isn't unsettling at all.
As opposed to, what, the Department of War?

Not every reference to a governmental organization dedicated to peace and diplomacy is necessarily a reference to Orwell, y'know -- nor need we always assume such organizations are named dishonestly, as Oceania's Ministry of Peace was.

Though, for my money, Martin would have done just as well to depict Jake as working for the Federation Department of the Exterior or Federation Diplomatic Corps.
To be fair, the description for the novel does make a point of suggesting that the Federation has changed, its morals have taken a beating or been reconsidered somewhat in the name of pure survival and that Groundsk-*sigh*, Undine have infiltrated all the governments anyway. Maybe that context is making them particularly distrustful of the name. A "Ministry of Peace" in the normal UFP we're familiar with wouldn't be disturbing, it would just be straightforward, but in these circumstances...? A chaotic, bitter Federation under siege and in the midst of fighting a lengthy war? What do they mean by "peace" at this time? Negotiation with the Undine, Klingons etc...or something a little more ominous?
This would scare me a little, as we know Ministery of Peace from Babylon 5. And we all know how that turned out...
So I hope Federation doesn't undertake the road EA did...
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Old April 9 2010, 07:24 AM   #79
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

NX...the reason I brought up the time line again is that I was told after inquiring that they were still going to be completed on the website that the poster responsible for them had just been busy with other duties on the site but I guess if its already been completed and in the book there isn't any need to finish it on the site.
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Old April 9 2010, 04:00 PM   #80
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

Overall, I did enjoy the book. It gave a rather turbulent background to the STO universe. Since I like the game, I gave the book another chance.
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Old April 10 2010, 05:07 PM   #81
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
NX...the reason I brought up the time line again is that I was told after inquiring that they were still going to be completed on the website that the poster responsible for them had just been busy with other duties on the site but I guess if its already been completed and in the book there isn't any need to finish it on the site.
Oh ok, I wasn't sure myself and assumed that may have been the case.

Interesting that the Enterprise-E (according to the timeline) is still operational in 2409.
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Old April 11 2010, 06:28 PM   #82
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

Just finished this.

I think the gimmick here totally fails. It pretends to be something written by Jake for real people, but clearly – CLEARLY – the purposes of this thing are:
1) to set up all possible enemies and structures necessary to support the ST:O story;
2) to explain and clarify the events of the Countdown comic book;
3) to set the ST:O story within the larger novel continuity; and
4) to show what happens to beloved characters throughout this period.

None of that has anything to do with what the book says it’s going to do; we get one soldier’s interview as perspective on the Undine war as any kind of story, and all the rest is varyingly ominous foreshadowing about their return until the very last one, which might be more the cultural stuff, but is so ridiculously small-universe-y that it doesn’t really work either. So: form does not match content. Period.

That said, though, I have to admit that said content is pretty cool. I loved the whole story of Data’s ressurrection, which I wasn’t expecting to; I think the real timeline, if it does this story, should do it differently, but this was a great read. I loved the interview with Dulmer, and thought it presented great opportunities for some continuity fixes in the future; I hope the forthcoming DTI mentions it. I loved the foreshadowing of the Typhon Pact Gorn book, coming soon. Really, it was almost a short story collection, with each vignette told in interview form, and I liked the stories. They were well thought-out and exciting. Actually that’s not quite true, the baseball thing was pretty stupid, but the rest were good.

So, that’s #2, #3, and #4 accomplished pretty well, if tending a little too closely towards small universe. And of course it succeeds perfectly at #1; the ST:Online game is pretty silly in the first place, but this does everything it can to set the stage for an exciting setting where arcade shooting can survive for years, as well as introducing some in-game characters (Naomi Wildman, for instance) and situations. It’s a solid game tie-in.

I happen to think that the story here is rather antithetical to Star Trek’s real strengths in the novelverse though, so I can just hope that despite this book’s totally rational explanations for all the Countdown events that the real books come at them from a different direction. This whole Undine War thing is just a little too same-y for my tastes.

But with Unspoken Truth, I was expecting like a 9/10 and got a 7/10, so I was disappointed; with this, I was expecting like a 5/10 and got a 7/10, so I'm pleasantly surprised.
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Old April 12 2010, 08:27 PM   #83
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

well i tried to keep an open mind and kept slogging through> I go to a part from the Essentialists (fromthe worst ep ever) and it turned into a racist rant about humans being superior and there was an obvious dig at Barry Goldwater, comparing him to Paxton from "Demons\Terra Prime."

Who's the editor that aproved this book? David Axelrod?
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Old April 13 2010, 01:56 AM   #84
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

I was flipping through this book. Not sure if I will buy it. I find the style a bit unorthodox. I was curious about the name Undine. Does anyone know who came up with that and why? It seemed like Species 8472 would have a more alien sounding name, probably one of those Timothy Zahn Chiss names from the Star Wars Expanded Universe.

I noticed that too, and I wonder is there supposed to be a correlation? I know Species 8472 showed up in the last VOY novel, the one that introduced the Indign.

Last edited by DarKush; April 13 2010 at 10:48 AM.
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Old April 13 2010, 02:00 AM   #85
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

I think Zahn makes great names (AHEM)

But I think the funny part about "Undine" is how close it is to "Indign", the alien of the week from Unworthy. (Or at least how I pronounced it in my head. Maybe it's pronounced totally differently.)
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Old April 13 2010, 02:09 AM   #86
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

Thrawn wrote: View Post
I think Zahn makes great names (AHEM)

But I think the funny part about "Undine" is how close it is to "Indign", the alien of the week from Unworthy. (Or at least how I pronounced it in my head. Maybe it's pronounced totally differently.)
Garm Bel Iblis agrees with you about great names and Zahn...
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Old April 13 2010, 02:55 AM   #87
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

Garm Bel Iblis wrote: View Post
well i tried to keep an open mind and kept slogging through> I go to a part from the Essentialists (fromthe worst ep ever) and it turned into a racist rant about humans being superior and there was an obvious dig at Barry Goldwater, comparing him to Paxton from "Demons\Terra Prime."

Who's the editor that aproved this book? David Axelrod?
Heh...the Essentialists themselves were a bad caricature that had no intention of giving any kind of substance to those who disagreed with the official Trek line.

That's pretty disappointing that was picked up with the same shallowness.
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Old April 13 2010, 04:44 AM   #88
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
Garm Bel Iblis wrote: View Post
well i tried to keep an open mind and kept slogging through> I go to a part from the Essentialists (fromthe worst ep ever) and it turned into a racist rant about humans being superior and there was an obvious dig at Barry Goldwater, comparing him to Paxton from "Demons\Terra Prime."

Who's the editor that aproved this book? David Axelrod?
Heh...the Essentialists themselves were a bad caricature that had no intention of giving any kind of substance to those who disagreed with the official Trek line.

That's pretty disappointing that was picked up with the same shallowness.
I was waiting to hear from their media rep Limbaugh or Beck. This is without a doubt the most politicized book in trek lit maybe all of trek. its very disappointing, given IDIC is the underlying philosophy in trek, but this author has taken on the far left loon fringe to represent the Federation
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Old April 13 2010, 05:17 AM   #89
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

IDIC would be nice if it were actually practiced for real in this world. But it's not...tolerance only extends as far as those who happen to agree with the person claiming it.
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Old April 13 2010, 05:42 AM   #90
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

Oh how fashionably cynical.

Honestly. One author being recognizably a Democrat is not the same thing as tolerance never "actually being practiced for real in this world."

I happen to believe that many things are tolerated by many people, on something of a daily basis.
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