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Old March 31 2010, 07:53 AM   #1
larryman
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"Colossus: The Forbin Project" and "Forbidden Planet"

I think the 1956 "Forbidden Planet" universe should be an (80-year later) 'sequel' to the 1970 "Colossus: The Forbin Project" movie. Like this...

Colossus forces mankind into a united Earth - as seen in the "Colossus: The Forbin Project" movie.

Afterwords...

* Colossus' knowledge continues to self-increase.
* From the super knowledge of Colossus, we are given the technical knowledge to build hyperspace saucers - the Bellerophon being one of these. These ships are given for humans to explore and colonize the distant star systems.
* Eventually, the United Planets Federation is formed from the human-colonized star systems, and functions under the on-going direction of Colossus.

I like this concept for the following reasons:
* It provides deep background to the development of the FP's "United Planets Federation". All the way back to the year 1970.
* It differentiates the Forbidden Planet universe from the Star Trek universe. Because the ST federation does not answer to any computer. That would be anti-Roddenberry.
* It makes use of another great sci-fi concept: the Colossus ('World Control') super-computer.
* Dr. Charles Forbin becomes the FP equivalent of the ST Dr. Zefram Cochrane.
* Colossus redeems it's self, by 'giving mankind the stars'.
* The irony... humans build a machine that saves them from themselves; the Krell build a machine with which they destroy themselves.

Anyone else like the concept of an anti-Roddenberry Star Trek - in which human affairs are governed by a man-made (logic-based) super-brain, rather than elected human representatives?
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Old March 31 2010, 09:59 AM   #2
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Re: "Colossus: The Forbin Project" and "Forbidden Planet"

The trouble is that Colossus has it's own timeline. The movie was based on a novel by D.F. Jones which had two sequels. "The Fall of Colossus" and "Colossus and the Crab".

We also see no demonstration of super artificial intelligence in use by the crew of the C-57D. I'd expect Colossus to include a part of himself in every effort by humanity, partially to ensure the humans are up to no covert attempts against Colossus, and partially to fulfill his programming and protect humans involved in any project he's authorized.

I do like the contrast your scenario presents between human and Krell civilizations, but the Krell were so advanced beyond human intellect that I doubt the comparison works ... we simply haven't made it to the equivalent of their ultimate test yet. Although, arguably, the intellect behind Colossus and later generation super computers, might be a valid comparison.
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Old March 31 2010, 11:44 AM   #3
larryman
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Re: "Colossus: The Forbin Project" and "Forbidden Planet"

^ I wasn't aware of a Colossus book series. I'm only familiar with the movie version - which had no sequel. But which left open the future of humanity under Colossus rule.

"We also see no demonstration of super artificial intelligence in use by the crew of the C-57D."

The C-57D was out of range of immediate Colossus controlled Federation space.

"I'd expect Colossus to include a part of himself in every effort by humanity, partially to ensure the humans are up to no covert attempts against Colossus, and partially to fulfill his programming and protect humans involved in any project he's authorized."

I disagree. I would think that after 80 years of controlled civil advancement, most humans would accept Colossus directives as guidance from a benevolent super genius entity - and gladly follow those directives. Especially when knowing the alternative to Colossus was the edge of world-wide nuclear war, and death to all.
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Old March 31 2010, 01:28 PM   #4
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Re: "Colossus: The Forbin Project" and "Forbidden Planet"

I have nothing to say, I just felt obligated to post in the thread.
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Old March 31 2010, 02:46 PM   #5
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Re: "Colossus: The Forbin Project" and "Forbidden Planet"

Actually, the attitude of the crew toward Robby strongly suggests a lack of such advanced automation as Colossus. Don't you think that after centuries of direction by an intelligent super-computer human beings - or Colossus itself - would have gotten around to "tinkering together" a basic robot?

Yet this robot of yours is beyond the combined resources of all Earth's physical science.
Parenthetically there's also the issue of the Martians who appear in Colossus And The Crab and who seem pretty out-of-sync with the attitude of the humans toward the Krell.
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Old March 31 2010, 02:54 PM   #6
Shawnster
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Re: "Colossus: The Forbin Project" and "Forbidden Planet"

Anyone else note how "Fall of Colossus" and "Colossus and the Crab" feel a bit retconned from the first novel? Just some minor differences, such as the time frame the novels are set in...
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Old March 31 2010, 06:49 PM   #7
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Re: "Colossus: The Forbin Project" and "Forbidden Planet"

Shawnster wrote: View Post
Anyone else note how "Fall of Colossus" and "Colossus and the Crab" feel a bit retconned from the first novel? Just some minor differences, such as the time frame the novels are set in...
I noticed that too, but only a little.

I think I would have liked the game they played with battleships.
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Old March 31 2010, 07:27 PM   #8
George Steinbrenner
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Re: "Colossus: The Forbin Project" and "Forbidden Planet"

The human characters in Forbidden Planet showed too much free will for them to be involved in any way with Colossus.

Colossus made it perfectly clear that it intended to enslave the human race and eliminate all free will and choice. Clearly not so in FP. Humans living under the rule of Colossus would be little more than Borg; those in FP are obviously not so.
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Old March 31 2010, 07:53 PM   #9
larryman
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Re: "Colossus: The Forbin Project" and "Forbidden Planet"

Dennis wrote: View Post
Actually, the attitude of the crew toward Robby strongly suggests a lack of such advanced automation as Colossus. Don't you think that after centuries of direction by an intelligent super-computer human beings - or Colossus itself - would have gotten around to "tinkering together" a basic robot?

Yet this robot of yours is beyond the combined resources of all Earth's physical science.
Parenthetically there's also the issue of the Martians who appear in Colossus And The Crab and who seem pretty out-of-sync with the attitude of the humans toward the Krell.
Yes, Robby poses a problem to the technological development flow. I've considered that the lack of any humanoid robot prior to Robby may have been because Colossus determined a need to utilize all human resources up to the Altair mission. But hopefully, that would change after C-57D returns with a Robby robot.

The C-57D mission to Altair would be marking a transition phase of the Federation. A time of Colossus allowing humans to venture forth beyond the established United Planets; and beyond Colossus control. A 'leaving the nest' for humanity, so to speak.

Don't know anything about "the Martians who appear in Colossus And The Crab". I'm referencing only the Colossus movie, and not the novels.
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Old March 31 2010, 07:59 PM   #10
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Re: "Colossus: The Forbin Project" and "Forbidden Planet"

I've noticed you starting a couple different threads about expanding
Forbidden Planet by way of grafting it to other shows or movies (Star Trek, Lost in Space, etc.). Why not just try to expand upon FP just based on FP? Try and find a copy of the novelization if you can, there's a lot of background info to be played with. For that matter, there's plenty in the movie itself that can be extrapolated from with a bit of imagination.
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Old March 31 2010, 08:10 PM   #11
larryman
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Re: "Colossus: The Forbin Project" and "Forbidden Planet"

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
The human characters in Forbidden Planet showed too much free will for them to be involved in any way with Colossus.

Colossus made it perfectly clear that it intended to enslave the human race and eliminate all free will and choice. Clearly not so in FP. Humans living under the rule of Colossus would be little more than Borg; those in FP are obviously not so.
Colossus never alleged it would 'enslave' the human race. It said it would 'control' the human race. And it would give us the stars. But we would be deprived of pride, and war.
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Old March 31 2010, 08:30 PM   #12
larryman
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Re: "Colossus: The Forbin Project" and "Forbidden Planet"

Mysterion wrote: View Post
I've noticed you starting a couple different threads about expanding
Forbidden Planet by way of grafting it to other shows or movies (Star Trek, Lost in Space, etc.). Why not just try to expand upon FP just based on FP? Try and find a copy of the novelization if you can, there's a lot of background info to be played with. For that matter, there's plenty in the movie itself that can be extrapolated from with a bit of imagination.
I guess I do the extrapolation of FP my way, for lack of anyone else doing it any other way.

But why would anyone base any extrapolations on a novel version, when there is a movie version to base on? Don't movies over-rate novels?
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Old March 31 2010, 08:52 PM   #13
George Steinbrenner
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Re: "Colossus: The Forbin Project" and "Forbidden Planet"

larryman wrote: View Post
Colossus never alleged it would 'enslave' the human race. It said it would 'control' the human race.
Same thing.

And it would give us the stars. But we would be deprived of pride, and war.
That still doesn't change the fact that we would be living in a prison. If you can only do what Colossus says, then you have no free will.

As human beings, we have a RIGHT to pride. War? Maybe not so much, but the fact is, peace that is forcibly imposed is no true peace.
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Old March 31 2010, 09:29 PM   #14
Mysterion
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Re: "Colossus: The Forbin Project" and "Forbidden Planet"

larryman wrote: View Post

I guess I do the extrapolation of FP my way, for lack of anyone else doing it any other way.

But why would anyone base any extrapolations on a novel version, when there is a movie version to base on? Don't movies over-rate novels?
Well, IMO, the novel in this case adds to what we see in the film. Check it out for youself and come to your own conclusions, though.
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Old April 1 2010, 12:26 AM   #15
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: "Colossus: The Forbin Project" and "Forbidden Planet"

Colossus is pessimistic about the outcome of technological progress, which is fine and very much in step with the time in which it was made. Forbidden Planet embraces the rather aggressively optimistic attitude of an earlier era, joining the belief in the possibilities of invention and progress of pre-WWII popular science fiction with the conventional domesticism of 1950s America.

I'd look at other sf of the 30s and 40s - both prose and movies - and build forward from there rather than incorporating too much stuff that came after FP. The movie was clearly inspired by the science fiction of the pulps. Beyond which, there's a style to it that's very 1950s and suggests a future that does not include much of our real history since then.

"Things To Come" would be a good "future history" background for FP - it's older, but has that same "technological triumphalism" and even a bit of similar visual style:


Last edited by Admiral Buzzkill; April 1 2010 at 12:36 AM.
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