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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Grade "The Needs of the Many"
Excellent 7 17.95%
Above Average 9 23.08%
Average 10 25.64%
Below Average 5 12.82%
Poor 8 20.51%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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Old March 29 2010, 01:22 PM   #31
Deranged Nasat
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

Sci wrote: View Post
David cgc wrote: View Post
nx1701g wrote: View Post
In the opening chapter Jake says he is completing this Project at the request of the Federation Department of Peace and that it's an historical project, not a work of fiction.
Well, that name isn't unsettling at all.
As opposed to, what, the Department of War?

Not every reference to a governmental organization dedicated to peace and diplomacy is necessarily a reference to Orwell, y'know -- nor need we always assume such organizations are named dishonestly, as Oceania's Ministry of Peace was.

Though, for my money, Martin would have done just as well to depict Jake as working for the Federation Department of the Exterior or Federation Diplomatic Corps.
To be fair, the description for the novel does make a point of suggesting that the Federation has changed, its morals have taken a beating or been reconsidered somewhat in the name of pure survival and that Groundsk-*sigh*, Undine have infiltrated all the governments anyway. Maybe that context is making them particularly distrustful of the name. A "Ministry of Peace" in the normal UFP we're familiar with wouldn't be disturbing, it would just be straightforward, but in these circumstances...? A chaotic, bitter Federation under siege and in the midst of fighting a lengthy war? What do they mean by "peace" at this time? Negotiation with the Undine, Klingons etc...or something a little more ominous?
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Old March 29 2010, 09:39 PM   #32
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

Sci wrote: View Post
David cgc wrote: View Post
nx1701g wrote: View Post
In the opening chapter Jake says he is completing this Project at the request of the Federation Department of Peace and that it's an historical project, not a work of fiction.
Well, that name isn't unsettling at all.
As opposed to, what, the Department of War?

Not every reference to a governmental organization dedicated to peace and diplomacy is necessarily a reference to Orwell, y'know -- nor need we always assume such organizations are named dishonestly, as Oceania's Ministry of Peace was.
It's just such a vague name. What's the Department of Peace do? Department of War/Defense is kind of obvious- military matters. Same with Departments of the Treasury, or Health, or Agriculture. But what does the Peace Department do? Diplomacy? Humanitarian aid? Espionage?

It's like Google's "Don't be evil" rule. Why should you need a rule for that at all?
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Old March 29 2010, 09:59 PM   #33
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

David cgc wrote: View Post
What's the Department of Peace do?
The great thing about a vague name like that is, no matter how the employees of the Department of Peace spend their days, as long as the Federation isn't at war, the Department can claim the credit...
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Old March 30 2010, 12:17 AM   #34
Sci
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

David cgc wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
David cgc wrote: View Post

Well, that name isn't unsettling at all.
As opposed to, what, the Department of War?

Not every reference to a governmental organization dedicated to peace and diplomacy is necessarily a reference to Orwell, y'know -- nor need we always assume such organizations are named dishonestly, as Oceania's Ministry of Peace was.
It's just such a vague name.
So's "the Department of State."

What's the Department of Peace do? Department of War/Defense is kind of obvious- military matters. Same with Departments of the Treasury, or Health, or Agriculture. But what does the Peace Department do? Diplomacy? Humanitarian aid? Espionage?
It sounds fairly obvious to me -- the Department of Peace would be dedicated to conducting diplomacy for the Federation in order to avoid war. I would infer that it's a division of the Department of the Exterior charged specifically with conducting those aspects of Federation foreign policy designed to create peaceful conditions.

It's like Google's "Don't be evil" rule. Why should you need a rule for that at all?
Because giant corporations can't be trusted not to turn evil without a rule against it, obviously. What, Enron and AIG didn't prove that to you?
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Old March 30 2010, 01:50 AM   #35
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

Considering that the novel directly references the Department of Peace proposed as a Cabinet level position for the United States by Dennis Kucinich, I'm assuming that the author intended for it to serve in a similar manner as that theoretical group.
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Old March 30 2010, 01:49 PM   #36
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

ok i started this last night.... i dunno...i'm only a few dozen pages in, it just seems irritating when such a peacenik writes a war story...Stiles is all "Boo yah, I"m a marine!" I've never met a cocky soldier like that, i dunno.

Maybe you should follow Dennis Kucinich's example and only write about peace, Mr. Martin, you don't do war very well.
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Old March 30 2010, 01:52 PM   #37
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

Garm Bel Iblis wrote: View Post
ok i started this last night.... i dunno...i'm only a few dozen pages in, it just seems irritating when such a peacenik writes a war story...Stiles is all "Boo yah, I"m a marine!" I've never met a cocky soldier like that, i dunno.
Kind of like Quartrich in Avatar, is what you're describing?

Indeed, it's very irritating when people write military types as nothing but caricatures. When you've known the real deal, it rings hollow.
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Old March 30 2010, 02:01 PM   #38
Garm Bel Iblis
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
Garm Bel Iblis wrote: View Post
ok i started this last night.... i dunno...i'm only a few dozen pages in, it just seems irritating when such a peacenik writes a war story...Stiles is all "Boo yah, I"m a marine!" I've never met a cocky soldier like that, i dunno.
Kind of like Quartrich in Avatar, is what you're describing?

Indeed, it's very irritating when people write military types as nothing but caricatures. When you've known the real deal, it rings hollow.
Its the sterotype that all soldiers are thickheaded grunts. I HATE it. That's probaly why i hated Avatar so much. oh well, I've put down hard cash, I'm going to press on, I'll try and be ready for the "George W. Bush Prison Planet" or the perhaps Risa has been renamed Obama. We shall see.
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Old March 30 2010, 10:39 PM   #39
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

I just finished this book and it was a much more entertaining and engrossing read than I thought it would be. I'm normally more into a "normal" prose-style of writing, but in this case, the interview-transcription-style worked. In fact, for this specific story, there is no way I can see that it would have worked in another style.

Although it was an enjoyable read, I'm glad this does not take place in the Prime-TrekLit universe. There were a few too many "really?!?" moments.



There were other little things as well:



Those are just some examples.

Plus, the idea of another long, costly war that challenges the Federation's very ideals...it seems to be a bit much. Yes, conflict is essential for a good story, but the Star Trek universe needs to find new sources for its conflict for a while, rather than rehashing the war theme again (and again, yes I'm aware that this is in the context of STO and not the TrekLit-verse).

But, overall, as I said earlier, it was an engrossing read. I liked the fact that except for a few individual stories, we don't get to read about the Long War overall, or how the war was resolved. I liked the broad range of seriousness vs. not-so-serious in some of the interviews.

I have not played the game, nor do I ever intend to, so I can't say how this might actually fit in with it, but standing on it's own, it's a fairly fascinating look at "what might have been."
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Old March 30 2010, 10:55 PM   #40
Garm Bel Iblis
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

OverlordSpock wrote: View Post
I just finished this book and it was a much more entertaining and engrossing read than I thought it would be. I'm normally more into a "normal" prose-style of writing, but in this case, the interview-transcription-style worked. In fact, for this specific story, there is no way I can see that it would have worked in another style.

Although it was an enjoyable read, I'm glad this does not take place in the Prime-TrekLit universe. There were a few too many "really?!?" moments.



There were other little things as well:



Those are just some examples.

Plus, the idea of another long, costly war that challenges the Federation's very ideals...it seems to be a bit much. Yes, conflict is essential for a good story, but the Star Trek universe needs to find new sources for its conflict for a while, rather than rehashing the war theme again (and again, yes I'm aware that this is in the context of STO and not the TrekLit-verse).

But, overall, as I said earlier, it was an engrossing read. I liked the fact that except for a few individual stories, we don't get to read about the Long War overall, or how the war was resolved. I liked the broad range of seriousness vs. not-so-serious in some of the interviews.

I have not played the game, nor do I ever intend to, so I can't say how this might actually fit in with it, but standing on it's own, it's a fairly fascinating look at "what might have been."

sounds like fanboy wank...gonna be real hard to slog through this one.
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Old March 31 2010, 02:42 AM   #41
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

I still haven't really gotten that far so I can't really judge yet.

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Old March 31 2010, 03:51 AM   #42
Garm Bel Iblis
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

nx1701g wrote: View Post
I still haven't really gotten that far so I can't really judge yet.

its still corny.
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Old March 31 2010, 05:06 AM   #43
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

I dont mind the interview style, it reminds me of World War Z. That first interview with the MACO really irks me, seriously, why didn't the author just watch Band of Brothers interviews with the old paratroopers. They didn't sound like that.
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Old March 31 2010, 10:11 AM   #44
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

ProwlAlpha wrote: View Post
I dont mind the interview style, it reminds me of World War Z. That first interview with the MACO really irks me, seriously, why didn't the author just watch Band of Brothers interviews with the old paratroopers. They didn't sound like that.
For some reason (and maybe OT a bit), this reminded me of M&M's ENT novel The Last Full Measure, which dealt quite heavily with the MACO's.

I seem to recall a bit of an uproar about that novel..

anything rings a bell?
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Old March 31 2010, 12:01 PM   #45
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Re: Star Trek: Online: The Needs of the Many - Discussion (Spoilers)

RonG wrote: View Post
ProwlAlpha wrote: View Post
I dont mind the interview style, it reminds me of World War Z. That first interview with the MACO really irks me, seriously, why didn't the author just watch Band of Brothers interviews with the old paratroopers. They didn't sound like that.
For some reason (and maybe OT a bit), this reminded me of M&M's ENT novel The Last Full Measure, which dealt quite heavily with the MACO's.

I seem to recall a bit of an uproar about that novel..

anything rings a bell?
That's what happens when Code Pink writes the war stories.

I'm also gettin' real tired of "oh please don't call your enemy by slang names, its inapropriate."

I believe this book has produced an emotional response. I think I hate it.

Last edited by Garm Bel Iblis; March 31 2010 at 01:37 PM.
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