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Old March 24 2010, 01:59 AM   #91
USS Triumphant
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

AMG wrote: View Post
I agree. So does my mom. That's three of us, at least.
Cor, chief! Really?

I'm close to agreeing. It's my second favorite, after TUC.
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Old March 24 2010, 02:13 AM   #92
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

Sky wrote: View Post
  • I still haven't managed to get interested enough in DS9 to see all the episodes


Deep Space Nine is by far one of my top favorite well written TV shows in general. It is also my all time favorite science fiction show, too.

The first 3 seasons are a little rough to start; but Season's 4-7 are really phenomenal, though. So if you have caught very little of of Deep Space Nine, I would suggest watching it like this (to begin with)...

1. Deep Space Nine Episode Titled "The Adversary"
(Season 3, Disc 7)

Watch the last episode on disc titled "The Adversary" only, and skip past the other episode titled "Facets" on the disc. Then watch...

2. Deep Space Nine Seasons 4-7

Basically this is when the show really heats up. It is when the Dominion story line really kicks into high gear and it is when Sisko becomes a Captain and when Worf joins the crew.

Deep Space Nine Trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4kebBWQfCM


Important Note:

Don't miss checking out the YouTube Trailer (above)!

Enjoy!



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Old March 24 2010, 02:27 AM   #93
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

Luther Sloan wrote: View Post
Sky wrote: View Post
  • I still haven't managed to get interested enough in DS9 to see all the episodes


Deep Space Nine is by far one of my top favorite well written TV shows in general. It is also my all time favorite science fiction show, too.
Agreed on this one...

The first 3 seasons are a little rough to start; but Season's 4-7 are really phenomenal, though. So if you have caught very little of of Deep Space Nine, I would suggest watching it like this (to begin with)...

1. Deep Space Nine Episode Titled "The Adversary"
(Season 3, Disc 7)

Watch the last episode on disc titled "The Adversary" only, and skip past the other episode titled "Facets" on the disc. Then watch...

2. Deep Space Nine Seasons 4-7
Hell no! NO, NO, and NO!

Would you start reading a novel from the middle?

DS9 should only be watched from the start. There are quite a few bad and average episodes in season 1, and most of the season does not contain important plots and feels like TNG-lite, and one could skip at least about a half of season 1. But there is still too very important character development, and are still a few indispensable episodes in season 1. Watching DS9 has to begin with Emissary. And Duet is without any doubt one of the greatest DS9 episodes, it is still my favorite. In the Hands of the Prophets is another one not to be missed. From there on (the end of season 1), the show becomes very good IMO, and seasons 2 and 3 are excellent despite a few clunkers here and there (but which Trek season doesn't have those?).

So many of the greatest DS9 episodes are from the first 3 seasons. When I see someone saying that the show doesn't get "good" until season 3, 4 or even 5, and that you should just watch the war, I find it really mind-boggling.
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Old March 24 2010, 02:31 AM   #94
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

AMG wrote: View Post
I agree. So does my mom. That's three of us, at least.
AMG:

Thank you. It is good to know there are a few of us out there with some taste still.

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Old March 24 2010, 02:47 AM   #95
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

DevilEyes wrote: View Post
Agreed on this one...
DE:

Thank you. I am glad there is another strong fellow admirer of Deep Space Nine.

Hell no! NO, NO, and NO! Would you start reading a novel from the middle?
George Lucas did it to us with Star Wars. We started off watching A New Hope (Episode 4), and it was a smash it.


DS9 should only be watched from the start. There are quite a few bad and average episodes in season 1, and most of the season does not contain important plots and feels like TNG-lite, and one could skip at least about a half of season 1. But there is still too very important character development, and are still a few indispensable episodes in season 1. Watching DS9 has to begin with Emissary. And Duet is without any doubt one of the greatest DS9 episodes, it is still my favorite. In the Hands of the Prophets is another one not to be missed. From there on (the end of season 1), the show becomes very good IMO, and seasons 2 and 3 are excellent despite a few clunkers here and there (but which Trek season doesn't have those?).
Yes. There is a lot of great back story information and things that are set up from the beginning. However, a lot of the episodes in the beginning are more like a slow moving drama with characters that haven't been fleshed out yet. So if there is someone who had a hard time getting into Deep Space Nine in the first place: This is what I would recommend. Plus, most people like faster paced story lines, too. So if it is someone who has never seen the show either. I would still recommend in watching it this way.

I mean, it's not like they can't go back and watch the first three seasons later. Sure, some things are not going to be revealed to them. But I believe the risk factor involved of the viewer being bored on his first viewing of seasons 1-3 is high. In other words, the odds are better of them liking the second half of Deep Space Nine then the first half. That is why I recommend it the way that I do (for first time viewers or for folks who have seen very little of it).

So many of the greatest DS9 episodes are from the first 3 seasons. When I see someone saying that the show doesn't get "good" until season 3, 4 or even 5, and that you should just watch the war, I find it really mind-boggling.
Well, that is a matter of opinion. I did like a few episodes in season 3 but they didn't come close to the awesomeness of seasons 4-7 in my book. Besides, like TNG: things were a little more cheesier in the beginning, too.


Side Note:

Oh, by the way. What did you think of the Deep Space Nine Trailer?

Last edited by Luther Sloan; March 24 2010 at 03:02 AM.
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Old March 24 2010, 03:19 AM   #96
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

canadaboy_32 wrote: View Post
Berman and Braga should be blamed for only ENT, not the rest of Trek.
Exccellent point. Braga (either directly by name or just as "B&B") is often blamed for anything people don't like about modern day Trek, even if he wasn't involved. For example, a lot of people have a tendency to blame him for Insurrection and Nemesis, despite the fact he had nothing to do with those movies.

plynch wrote: View Post
I like Voyager. I think that's a minority opinion.
You know, I was hard on Voyager when it first aired, but looking back, it wasn't that bad a show. There's unfulfilled potential, definately, but it is still as solid a show as you could ask for.
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Old March 24 2010, 03:38 AM   #97
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

Luther Sloan wrote: View Post
4. It's okay to sleep with a Tribble toy at night... normal people just think it is a duster or fancy mini pillow or something.

5. It is never okay to mention Star Trek on a first date with a girl. Unless of course you met her at a convention or you know she is a Trekkie.

6. Trekkies 3 should be about all the hot, cool, hip and attractive fans of Star Trek.

14. Girls that don't like Star Trek or can't get into it are not as cool as girls that do.

28. The Original Series and Deep Space Nine are the strongest series within Star Trek. No discussion. No debate. It's a fact.

15. Star Trek 4, the one with the whales, was a light hearted fun little film and is better than all of the TNG movies put together.

27. It takes time to get used to the effects on the Original Series. I grew up watching a few TOS episodes when I was a kid in the early 80s. Then, later, in the 90s: I couldn't stand watching the show because of the effects and cheesy sets. However, after becoming a huge fan of TNG, DS9, and VOY: I ended up giving TOS another shot by watching it late at night on the Sci Fi Channel and got hooked. So I definitely recommend in re-watching all of the episodes at least 10 times before saying no to it.
QFT!!!
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Old March 24 2010, 03:48 AM   #98
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

1. I dislike TWOK thoroughly, but I know I'm not alone. Besides the people in this thread who have admitted this, we had a thread, oh, 6 months ago or so in which quite a number of us admitted to this "shocking" opinion. To me, though I try to be tolerant, I have to say that I don't understand why anybody likes it, and I find it shocking that anybody could consider that piece of dreck the "best" Trek movie. There aren't any truly great Trek movies, IMO (maybe I should list this as its own separate "unpopular opinion"?), but there are several that are superior to this one. There are comic books that I consider superior to this movie, and I don't even like comic books.

2. And Khan is boring, OK? Boring.

3. So are Klingons. I like some individual Klingons a lot, I like some episodes that feature a Klingon or two, but once they start all that warrior crap, I start yawning.

4. I also liked Pulaski. She annoyed me quite a bit at first (perhaps because of the McCoy factor?), but I quite warmed to her eventually...right around the time she was ousted.

5. I liked Voyager. (I agree with those who have said that this isn't really a minority opinion, but lots of people certainly like to think it is, so I'm saying it anyway. ) It isn't my favorite Trek, and it could have been much better, which is frustrating, but it was an enjoyable show, at least at the time. Once I finish rewatching DS9, I might try to watch it through again, though there are definitely episodes I will have no problem skipping.

6. And most shocking of all...I really do NOT care for McCoy. Never have, not even when I was a kid. Yeah, I know, I know, the Big 3, the Holy Trinity of Trekdom, blah blah blah, but it's the truth. Some of his bluster was fine, and some was funny, but there were times (usually when Kirk was in danger and McCoy decided to blame Spock) when he'd lash out at Spock with genuine disdain. "You don't feel anything, do you, Spock?" he'd say, even though he had to know by then that Spock did indeed feel a lot.

And at those times, he came across as bigot, and the kind of guy who when he's worried thinks he should be able to say whatever stupid hurtful thing he wants, even if he knows in his heart that it isn't true.

Anyway, I don't care for bigots, even if they feel a little ashamed of themselves afterwards, particularly when they are perfectly capable of doing exactly the same thing a few weeks later. And that's how McCoy struck me, most of the time.

Last edited by JustKate; March 24 2010 at 03:58 AM.
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Old March 24 2010, 04:36 AM   #99
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

Luther Sloan wrote: View Post
Hell no! NO, NO, and NO! Would you start reading a novel from the middle?
George Lucas did it to us with Star Wars. We started off watching A New Hope (Episode 4), and it was a smash it.
That's not in any way similar and you know it. Star Wars (now called New Hope) was the first "chapter of the novel". It introduced the characters. It started the story. Lucas just went back a few decades later and made some inferior prequels.

(Not to mention that the SW prequels are awful, while seasons 2 and 3 of DS9 most certainly aren't. And even season 1 is not nearly that bad, certainly not so much to be compared to Phantom Menace...)


Yes. There is a lot of great back story information and things that are set up from the beginning. However, a lot of the episodes in the beginning are more like a slow moving drama with characters that haven't been fleshed out yet. So if there is someone who had a hard time getting into Deep Space Nine in the first place: This is what I would recommend. Plus, most people like faster paced story lines, too. So if it is someone who has never seen the show either. I would still recommend in watching it this way.
I would not.

One of the greatest things about DS9 is following the characters and their development from season 1 to season 7. It's not like TOS where you can just pick any episode out of order and watch it.


So many of the greatest DS9 episodes are from the first 3 seasons. When I see someone saying that the show doesn't get "good" until season 3, 4 or even 5, and that you should just watch the war, I find it really mind-boggling.
Well, that is a matter of opinion. I did like a few episodes in season 3 but they didn't come close to the awesomeness of seasons 4-7 in my book.
Duet
In the Hands of the Prophets
Necessary Evil
The Maquis
The Wire
The Jem'Hadar/The Search
Second Skin
The House of Quark
Improbable Cause/The Die is Cast

These are some of the most awesome episodes of DS9 in my book. Duet is in fact still my #1, and Necessary Evil and Second Skin are in my top 5 or 6 episodes.

Also, Crossover is the only decent Mirror Universe episode DS9 produced (even though I have some problems with it as well) - while the later ones got more and more awful.

Side Note:

Oh, by the way. What did you think of the Deep Space Nine Trailer?
Very well done, exciting, well paced, presents many of the show's themes very well... although it's a bit too focused on Sisko.
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Old March 24 2010, 04:59 AM   #100
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

M-Red wrote: View Post
...

I liked Robin Curtis more than Kirstey Alley.

...

Me three. Four. Whatever.
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Old March 24 2010, 05:53 AM   #101
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

1. I like ENT and Voyager - all seasons

2. I vastly prefer TOS Remastered to the original versions

3. I can't stand the Maquis.
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Old March 24 2010, 01:43 PM   #102
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

Star Trek VI being the best of the movies doesn't seem to be shared by a whole lot of other people.

I'll also go in on the Star Trek V not being so bad thing.
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Old March 24 2010, 03:16 PM   #103
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

Elder Knight wrote: View Post
M-Red wrote: View Post
...

I liked Robin Curtis more than Kirstey Alley.

...

Me three. Four. Whatever.
Most opinions in this thread, I can go, "Okay, I guess I can see how you could possibly think that." But Robin Curtis over KA? It is such a foreign concept to me, I truly can't imagine it. Perhaps you are visiting non-carbon based life? That would explain such divergent thinking. If so, welcome. Please treat us well.
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Old March 24 2010, 03:23 PM   #104
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

DevilEyes wrote: View Post
That's not in any way similar and you know it. Star Wars was the first "chapter of the novel".
DE:

No. It says "Episode 4" in big bold lettering in it's opening crawl. Plus, if you were to watch the behind the scenes SW stuff, it showed how Lucas had written some basic stuff for the previous chapters, too.

(now called New Hope)
No. It says "A New Hope" right on the new special edition DVD cover.

(Not to mention that the SW prequels are awful, while seasons 2 and 3 of DS9 most certainly aren't. And even season 1 is not nearly that bad, certainly not so much to be compared to Phantom Menace...) It introduced the characters. It started the story. Lucas just went back a few decades later and made some inferior prequels.
It doesn't matter if the prequels were awful or not. Which by the way I can understand where you are coming from. I think the prequels were nowhere close to the awesomeness of the Original Trilogy (but still watchable on occasion). Anyways, the Prequel stories were roughly thought of from day one. We just didn't get to see those chapters of the story yet. And just because we liked the characters better in the Original Trilogy doesn't discount the fact that there was three chapters (that we didn't get to see) from day one.


I would not.
One of the greatest things about DS9 is following the characters and their development from season 1 to season 7. It's not like TOS where you can just pick any episode out of order and watch it.
...And I would agree. In fact, I never suggested that you should watch Deep Space Nine randomly. I suggested to watch it from the Season 3 cliffhanger episode "Adversary" and then continue on into Season's 4-7 where the heat of the story really starts to pick up, just like Episode 4: "A New Hope" did.

These are some of the most awesome episodes of DS9 in my book. Duet is in fact still my #1, and Necessary Evil and Second Skin are in my top 5 or 6 episodes.

Duet
In the Hands of the Prophets
Necessary Evil
The Maquis
The Wire
The Jem'Hadar/The Search
Second Skin
The House of Quark
Improbable Cause/The Die is Cast
Duet was a good episode. I will admit that. But in my opinion, (which I am sure a lot of other folks would agree) it still pales in comparison to ton of other episodes in Season's 4-7. Not that you should adhere to popular opinion or anything.

In the Hands of the Prophets, The Maquis, The Wire
The Jem'Hadar/The Search and the Second Skin were mildly entertaining to just okay in my book. In fact, I really don't see these episodes being hailed as the best of Trek. But we each have or own personal likes and dislikes (Which is neither right nor wrong of course).

The House of Quark, and Improbable Cause/The Die is Cast were really good. But I still think that the beginning episodes "you have to drag your feet thru" can lose a viewer, though. Sure, they may be great to you. But I have found people don't like slow moving story lines as much as they do faster paced ones. Now, if I knew that person was into slower moving dramas... then I probably would recommend them to watch the series from the very beginning then.

Also, Crossover is the only decent Mirror Universe episode DS9 produced (even though I have some problems with it as well) - while the later ones got more and more awful.
Crossover was good. I also liked In A Mirror Darkly a lot too (which was in the 3rd Season as well). But to me, the mirror universe episodes were the best episodes in the first three seasons. Granted, I also really enjoyed "Whispers" and "Visionary" a lot as well.

Very well done, exciting, well paced, presents many of the show's themes very well... although it's a bit too focused on Sisko.
Cool. I am glad you enjoyed the DS9 trailer.




Side Note:

Oh, and I created another thread on this topic so we can continue to engage in this fun little conversation of ours.

http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?p=3942912#post3942912

Hope you like.

Last edited by Luther Sloan; March 24 2010 at 04:26 PM.
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Old March 24 2010, 03:25 PM   #105
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

It's just a TV show.
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