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General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

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Old March 23 2010, 10:02 PM   #76
Soul of Saito
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

plynch wrote: View Post
I like Voyager. I think that's a minority opinion.
As Lor'Vela points out, I don't think liking Voyager, even marginally, is really all that rare, based on my own observations, anyway. But saying it's your favorite of all five, that would definitely be a "minority opinion."

I am seeing a lot of opinions in this thread that I don't think are "unpopular" or "minority", though. It'll be interesting to see if anyone looks at mine and thinks the same thing, that I think it's an uncommon viewpoint but maybe someone else encounters the same sentiment all the time.

-TOS is not a very good show. It has a small handful of really great eps, a large number of mediocre eps, and a HELL of a lot of stinkers. I respect it as the franchise starter, and it was great for its time and certainly groundbreaking, but it's my second least favorite behind Enterprise in terms of purely enjoying what I'm watching. And it's NOT because of the outdated visual effects.
-Starship officers + miniskirts (or catsuits! They are not exempt simply because they were from later Trek) = what the hell were you thinking. William Ware Theiss was a hack who wouldn't know good fashion sense or sex appeal if it walked up and kicked his ass.
-The original Enterprise is one of my least favorite ships in Trek. Like the show itself, I respect that it was unlike any other ship design of its time, and it laid the groundwork for all of Trek's later ships, but I find it pretty ugly. The refits (TMP and STXI) are both vast improvements, but neither are among my favorite Starfleet designs.
-TWOK is highly overrated. I give it a 5 out of 10.
-GEN is highly underrated. I give it a 7.5 out of 10.
-While I did feel Insurrection and Nemesis both overflowed with problems, I still enjoy them more than any TOS movie except TVH and TUC.
-All of that said, the movies (all of them - from TMP to STXI) are not as good as the best of the shows. Several of the movies are mediocre to bad, and even the good ones I view simply as side-story fluff pieces, just there to have a good, fun, big-screen romp. The best part of the TV shows are the real core of Trek's visual medium.
-Certain novels (specifically, books from the post-DS9/post-Nemesis/Destiny continuity) have matched and even slightly surpassed the very best of any of the shows as my favorite part of Trek, in terms of pure writing and character development.
-Klingons are cool. We got an overdose of them during TNG, but I still find them interesting. And the Klingons as shown in TNG and (especially) late DS9 are far more interesting than the "WE'RE ASSHOLES BECAUSE WE LIKE TO BE ASSHOLES BWAHAHA" Klingons from TOS.
-The Federation is not secretly some kind of evil, fascist, expansionist state, whose stated moral values are just a farce and a cover up, and whose citizens are cultural slaves and don't even realize it. Eddington made some decent points in concept, but only as they pertained to the Maquis, and he severely overstated his case. The Federation is not even close to being as bad as the Borg, let alone worse. The UFP and Starfleet do more good than harm, for their own citizens and for the galaxy around them.
-The Federation is not some kind of ultimate, holy, do-gooder state whose citizens will always do the right thing no matter what. Neither their population, nor their government are 100% free of corruption, dangerous ambition, greed, or plain bad judgement. Starfleet is not 100% free of those things, either.

(I've seen both sides of that Fed argument brought up many times on this board and other places over the years. I'm really not sure which one is more "unpopular", so I thought I'd cover both, since I don't buy either extreme, myself. )

Last edited by Soul of Saito; March 23 2010 at 10:35 PM.
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Old March 23 2010, 10:14 PM   #77
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

Pemmer Harge wrote: View Post
The following episodes are overrated: The Menagerie, Starship Mine, The Way of the Warrior, In the Pale Moonlight, Distant Origin, Dark Frontier.
It is? I don't recall that one on the top ten lists for most posters.
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Old March 23 2010, 10:15 PM   #78
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

You know what...

I don't care for the visual of TOS and since it is a television show that makes it hard for me to watch/enjoy it. I'm not even going to preface that with respect for it as the founding series or pad it with a statement about how I loved some of the TOS era movies because I don't want to feel like I'm trying to dodge a bullet. The visuals of TOS are a problem for me and I do not enjoy them.



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Old March 23 2010, 10:36 PM   #79
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

Withers wrote: View Post
You know what...

I don't care for the visual of TOS and since it is a television show that makes it hard for me to watch/enjoy it. I'm not even going to preface that with respect for it as the founding series or pad it with a statement about how I loved some of the TOS era movies because I don't want to feel like I'm trying to dodge a bullet. The visuals of TOS are a problem for me and I do not enjoy them.



-Withers-
Agreed. The visual component of television and movies can be just as important as the writing and plot. Like, they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. So 24 frames per second for 45 minutes is...a lot of words.
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Old March 23 2010, 10:36 PM   #80
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

Withers wrote: View Post
You know what...

I don't care for the visual of TOS and since it is a television show that makes it hard for me to watch/enjoy it. I'm not even going to preface that with respect for it as the founding series or pad it with a statement about how I loved some of the TOS era movies because I don't want to feel like I'm trying to dodge a bullet. The visuals of TOS are a problem for me and I do not enjoy them.



-Withers-
Wow. I'd never have guessed.
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Old March 23 2010, 10:37 PM   #81
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Wow. I'd never have guessed.
That sounds like sarcasm, but it seems a lot of people actually think TOS looks good.
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Old March 23 2010, 10:55 PM   #82
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

  • I don't like Kirk all that much and I abhor William Shatner
  • I'd much rather watch TFF than ST09
  • I think Data was mostly annoying
  • I still haven't managed to get interested enough in DS9 to see all the episodes
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Old March 23 2010, 10:57 PM   #83
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

Warped9 wrote: View Post

Wow. I'd never have guessed.
You're one to talk!
muzzleflash wrote: View Post
That sounds like sarcasm, but it seems a lot of people actually think TOS looks good.
I can't say I've encountered many people who think TOS looks "good" from a purely technical standpoint. The vast majority of people (on this BBS or elsewhere) that I've talked to about TOS - no matter how much they like the show - acknowledge that the era in which it was made holds it back in terms of visuals.

That said, what I HAVE seen tons of is the idea that TOS had good (or, among Trek shows, the best) aesthetics. That disregarding the quality of film and of special effects, the overall look of TOS, stylistically - uniforms, ships, control panels, weapons, etc - was great. Which I really don't get; I find TOS' look goofy and ridiculous, myself. Buuuut, if I'm being fair, that's really a matter of personal preference. There's no objectivity to disliking (or liking) the aesthetics.
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Old March 23 2010, 11:20 PM   #84
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

Star Trek V and Star Trek Generations are great movies.

The first season of TNG is mostly great.

Plato's Stepchildren is one of season three's best episodes.

I know what a gimmick the holodeck episodes are, but I love just about every one of them.
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Old March 23 2010, 11:31 PM   #85
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

I'd like to address what some have said about TOS.

For those of us who were there way back in ancient times... Star Trek was very advanced looking for its time. Yes, today it looks silly to many, but back then no one had created a ship like Enterprise for television. No one had an inkling of how the future would really look, but they tried, and in the 1960s TOS took us where no one had ever gone before.

Many of the inventions we now take for granted were inspired by those who saw TOS and said, "I think that would work" and made it happen. Cell phones were inspired by communicators, as well as other inventions.

A little knowledge of history may help to put things in perspective.

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Old March 24 2010, 12:00 AM   #86
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

It's a relief to know that there are so many people who don't care much for Kirk.

Saito S wrote: View Post
I am seeing a lot of opinions in this thread that I don't think are "unpopular" or "minority", though. It'll be interesting to see if anyone looks at mine and thinks the same thing, that I think it's an uncommon viewpoint but maybe someone else encounters the same sentiment all the time.


-All of that said, the movies (all of them - from TMP to STXI) are not as good as the best of the shows. Several of the movies are mediocre to bad, and even the good ones I view simply as side-story fluff pieces, just there to have a good, fun, big-screen romp. The best part of the TV shows are the real core of Trek's visual medium.
I think that opinion is quite widespread. I've never met anyone who prefers Trek movies to the shows.

-Certain novels (specifically, books from the post-DS9/post-Nemesis/Destiny continuity) have matched and even slightly surpassed the very best of any of the shows as my favorite part of Trek, in terms of pure writing and character development.
Hm, is that really an unpopular opinion among the people who read Trek books?

Now, the majority of Trek fans does not, but that's another matter.


-The Federation is not secretly some kind of evil, fascist, expansionist state, whose stated moral values are just a farce and a cover up, and whose citizens are cultural slaves and don't even realize it. Eddington made some decent points in concept, but only as they pertained to the Maquis, and he severely overstated his case. The Federation is not even close to being as bad as the Borg, let alone worse. The UFP and Starfleet do more good than harm, for their own citizens and for the galaxy around them.
-The Federation is not some kind of ultimate, holy, do-gooder state whose citizens will always do the right thing no matter what. Neither their population, nor their government are 100% free of corruption, dangerous ambition, greed, or plain bad judgement. Starfleet is not 100% free of those things, either.
Isn't that the majority opinion? I doubt that many people argue either of the two extremes... it's just that those who do tend to stand out, and feel the need to argue it in the first place (as is usual with extreme viewpoints).

Pemmer Harge wrote: View Post
Deep Space Nine peaked before the Dominion War.
If by that you mean that it peaked in season 5, then it's not such an unpopular opinion. Though I'd say it peaked in season 5 + the first 6 episodes of season 6. The rest of S6 was mostly good and occasionally great, but didn't have the same intensity. But I also think that DS9 was great since "Duet".

I should have also mentioned that Bajorans are one of my favorite Trek races, that I find them very interesting and love the episodes about their politics. That's an unpopular opinion, isn't it?
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Old March 24 2010, 12:20 AM   #87
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

And More...

1. They should have never closed the Star Trek Experience in Vegas. I miss flying to Vegas and hanging out at the Star Trek bar.

2. Kirstie Alley needed to be in Star Trek more.

3. Canon and continuity are like two separate words with their own specific meanings and usage, but essentially they are the same words at the core (when you dig into discovering the basic meaning of the words).

4. It's okay to sleep with a Tribble toy at night... normal people just think it is a duster or fancy mini pillow or something.

5. It is never okay to mention Star Trek on a first date with a girl. Unless of course you met her at a convention or you know she is a Trekkie.

6. Trekkies 3 should be about all the hot, cool, hip and attractive fans of Star Trek.

7. Voyager is not as bad as some people make it out to be. It might have had it's problems, but it still was an exceptionally entertaining show that worked within the realm of Gene Roddenberry's sand box.

8. Star Trek fans should at least read these two basic script writing books: "Screenplay: The Foundations of Screenwriting" and "How to Write a Movie in 21 Days". Whether they intend to become a screen writer or not.

9. More people (even people that don't like comic books) need to read the Star Trek Countdown comic books before they watch JJ Abram's 2009 Star Trek.

10. TNG's Inner Light is over rated, but I still can enjoy it on occasion.

11. The Borg should have had more alien races instead of humans within it's collective. Even though I have used Voyager's 37's episode to help explain why the Borg have mostly human members. In addition, I would also like to point out that I don't consider Enterprise's Regenerations to be a part of the Prime Universe, too. I believe that Star Trek: Enterprise (as a whole) is an altered time line. So the Borg depicted in that episode are not from the Prime Universe. At least for me, anyways.

12. Every Trekkie should at least try playing one of the Star Trek role playing games (the dice and paper version) sometime in their life for fun and or profit.

13. Every Trekkie should at least cook one item from the official Star Trek cook book (whether they are a good cook or not).

14. Girls that don't like Star Trek or can't get into it are not as cool as girls that do.

15. Star Trek 4, the one with the whales, was a light hearted fun little film and is better than all of the TNG movies put together.

16. There should be a kick butt graphic novel explaining that Star Trek: Enterprise is an altered First Contact time line. In addition, it should be written by some of the best writers within Star Trek, too.

17. Jennifer Garner should make a cameo appearance within the next Star Trek film. It would be even cooler if she was a part of Section 31, as well.

18. Trekkies or folks just getting into Star Trek that haven't watched much Deep Space Nine should start watching the series with the Season 3 cliffhanger episode titled "Adversary" (DS9 Season 3: Disc 7) thru Netflix. They then should continue on with Seasons 4-7.

19. The Star Trek episodes are better than the films (with the exception of JJ Abram's film).

20. I hate how almost every ship has a circular bridge.

21. Star Trek First Contact was the only descent TNG film and it really wasn't all that great as some folks make it out to be either.

22. Star Trek: Enterprise should have took place 5-10 years (20 at most) before Kirk was born.

23. Star Trek: Enterprise should have been called Star Trek: Phoenix with the ship being called by the same name. Also, the ship should have looked more primitive and it shouldn't have had a saucer shaped exterior design, either.

24. Enterprise's Bound (The one with the Orion Slave Women) was the most ridiculously retarded explanation I have ever seen used within an episode of Star Trek. The Orion Slave Women are actually the Masters? Come on. That has got to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard on Star Trek.

25. Star Trek: Enterprise should have had an all human crew. Also, encountering a new alien race should have been a big event or big deal and not some kind of re-hashed bad Voyager episode, too.

26. TOS's Doomsday Machine Remastered is one of the best episodes of Star Trek. In fact, if it doesn't send chills down your spine. Something is wrong.

27. It takes time to get used to the effects on the Original Series. I grew up watching a few TOS episodes when I was a kid in the early 80s. Then, later, in the 90s: I couldn't stand watching the show because of the effects and cheesy sets. However, after becoming a huge fan of TNG, DS9, and VOY: I ended up giving TOS another shot by watching it late at night on the Sci Fi Channel and got hooked. So I definitely recommend in re-watching all of the episodes at least 10 times before saying no to it.

28. The Original Series and Deep Space Nine are the strongest series within Star Trek. No discussion. No debate. It's a fact.

29. The Dominion War episodes on Deep Space Nine is comparable to some really good films.

30. There should have been some type of Maqui rebellion on board Voyager in the first season of the show. Oh, and Harry should have gotten it on with Seven of Nine, too.

31. It was such a crock how Neelix left the show. I mean, right before the crew almost gets home, he just happens to run into his own kind past Borg space. Come on. That was just so freakin' retarded.

Last edited by Luther Sloan; March 24 2010 at 03:21 AM.
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Old March 24 2010, 12:29 AM   #88
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

DevilEyes wrote: View Post
Pemmer Harge wrote: View Post
Deep Space Nine peaked before the Dominion War.
If by that you mean that it peaked in season 5, then it's not such an unpopular opinion. Though I'd say it peaked in season 5 + the first 6 episodes of season 6. The rest of S6 was mostly good and occasionally great, but didn't have the same intensity. But I also think that DS9 was great since "Duet".
I think it peaked in terms of consistency and mood in Season 5 (and the occupation arc, but I tend to think in terms of seasons), but yes, there are episodes from much earlier (and later) that are at least as good as the stuff in that period. Maybe my opinion that Season 3 is the second best year of the show would be more unpopular?
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Old March 24 2010, 12:49 AM   #89
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE Nemesis and STV.
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Old March 24 2010, 12:57 AM   #90
T.D. Possum
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Re: Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

Luther Sloan wrote: View Post
And More...

15. Star Trek 4, the one with the whales, was a light hearted fun little film and is better than all of the TNG movies put together.
I agree. So does my mom. That's three of us, at least.
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