RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 135,891
Posts: 5,222,814
Members: 24,234
Currently online: 611
Newest member: evtclub

TrekToday headlines

De Lancie Joins Mind Puppets
By: T'Bonz on Apr 24

Cumberbatch One Of Time Magazine’s Most Influential
By: T'Bonz on Apr 24

Trek Actor Smithsonian Magazine Cover First
By: T'Bonz on Apr 24

Takei To Receive Award
By: T'Bonz on Apr 23

Yelchin In New Comedy
By: T'Bonz on Apr 23

U.S. Rights For Pegg Comedy Secured
By: T'Bonz on Apr 23

Shatner: Aging and Work
By: T'Bonz on Apr 23

Kurtzman And Orci Go Solo
By: T'Bonz on Apr 22

Star Trek #32 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Apr 22

Voyager Bridge Via The Oculus Rift
By: T'Bonz on Apr 21


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 9 2010, 04:41 AM   #1801
DBall
Lieutenant Junior Grade
 
Location: Rochester, NY
Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

LightningStorm wrote: View Post
Indeed Hugh Laurie attended Cambridge University.
Hmm... I don't think I would've ever caught that VOY character modeling. Great observation!
__________________
--------Dan---------
My Music | My Videos
DBall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9 2010, 04:51 PM   #1802
LightningStorm
The Borg King
 
LightningStorm's Avatar
 
Location: Kansas City
Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

DBall wrote: View Post
LightningStorm wrote: View Post
Indeed Hugh Laurie attended Cambridge University.
Hmm... I don't think I would've ever caught that VOY character modeling. Great observation!
I can't take credit for noticing that, it was pointed out in a previous thread by either KRAD or Kirsten herself.
__________________
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. (Martin Luther King, Jr. (1929-68))
LightningStorm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10 2010, 08:05 PM   #1803
Herbert
Captain
 
Herbert's Avatar
 
Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

Christopher wrote: View Post
^And Sulu has now been played by a Japanese actor and a Korean actor.
For a character who was part-Japanese and part-Filipino.
Herbert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10 2010, 08:36 PM   #1804
Herbert
Captain
 
Herbert's Avatar
 
Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

Christopher wrote: View Post
You're not seriously suggesting making up a Caucasian to look Asian?! Reverting to the days of Charlie Chan? That practice was not only racist, it was ineffective. You can't convincingly make a white person look Asian by sticking latex folds over their eyelids. Maybe American audiences in the '40s or '60s, who didn't know or care what real Asians looked like, could buy such a substitution, but nobody with any sense today would fall for it, and no casting director with any decency would attempt it.
No one seems to be offended that Mexican-born actor Ricardo Montalban played a genetically engineered Indian Sikh. Or is offended that Montalban reprised the role as Khan instead of the role being recast and given to an ethnic Indian actor. Kabir Bedi re-cast as Khan in the Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan?

Star Trek has a long history of casting Hispanics as Native Americans. Robert Beltran as Chakotay and Henry Darrow as Kalopek being examples.

Is Lawrence Olivier's portrayal of Othello in black-face racially offensive? Was Olivier's potrayal as the Mahdi in Khartoum racially offensive?

Are make-ups intended to age actors offensive because they deny opportunities to elderly actors?

Is the casting of Egyptian-born actor Omar Sharif as Dr. Yuri Zhivago offensive in Doctor Zhivago?

I believe that we should condemn the practice of having actors made-up to look like other cultures and races if they perpetuate offensive racial stereotypes or support racial discrimination in hiring to deny opportunities to ethnic actors. But we also shouldn't be immediately painted with the racist brush when we imagine an actor being made-up to look like a race/ethnicity to which they do not belong.

Last edited by Herbert; March 10 2010 at 09:26 PM.
Herbert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10 2010, 09:02 PM   #1805
Captaindemotion
Vice Admiral
 
Captaindemotion's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

^ Well, black face is pretty much regarded as offensive nowadays, yes. Alec Guinness' portrayal of an Indian in A Passage to India is widely regarded as the greatest misstep of David Lean's career (personally, I'd vote for the Oirish-isms in Ryan's Daughter).
__________________
Hodor!!!!!!!
Captaindemotion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10 2010, 09:15 PM   #1806
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

Herbert wrote: View Post
]Star Trek has a long history of casting Hispanics as Native Americans. Robert Beltram as Chakotay and Henry Darrow as Kalopek being examples.
Robert Beltran is part-Native American.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10 2010, 09:25 PM   #1807
Herbert
Captain
 
Herbert's Avatar
 
Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

Christopher wrote: View Post
Herbert wrote: View Post
]Star Trek has a long history of casting Hispanics as Native Americans. Robert Beltram as Chakotay and Henry Darrow as Kalopek being examples.
Robert Beltran is part-Native American.
Is he Mayan? Should it really matter what actor is hired for the role unless racial, ethnic, religious, or cultural discrimination had a role in the hiring process?
Herbert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10 2010, 09:41 PM   #1808
Captaindemotion
Vice Admiral
 
Captaindemotion's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

Herbert wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Herbert wrote: View Post
]Star Trek has a long history of casting Hispanics as Native Americans. Robert Beltram as Chakotay and Henry Darrow as Kalopek being examples.
Robert Beltran is part-Native American.
Is he Mayan? Should it really matter what actor is hired for the role unless racial, ethnic, religious, or cultural discrimination had a role in the hiring process?
You seem to be confusing nationality with ethnicity. Christopher is more than able to speak for himself, but IIRC, when JJ Abrams Star' Trek movie was being cast, he was among those who didn't have a problem with an actor with Korean ancestry playing Sulu, with a Kiwi playing Bones, with an Englishman playing Scotty or an American playing Uhura (forgive me if I'm wrong on this Christopher). As was I. Because it's not that hard for someone from one ethnic race to play someone from the same ethnic race, even if the nationality is different. You generally just need to get the accent right.

On the other hand, it is extremely difficult for someone from one ethnic race to play someone from a different race and the results are generally offensive to people whose race is being impersonated. The infamous 'Black and White Minstrel Show', 'Amos and Andy', Mickey Rooney's Japanese caricature in Breakfast at Tiffany's, Alec Guinness in A Passage To India - these are just some examples of how wrong the results usually are.

If you can name me one instance of an caucasian actor convincingly playing a black or asian character, I'd be surprised.
__________________
Hodor!!!!!!!
Captaindemotion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10 2010, 09:49 PM   #1809
captcalhoun
Admiral
 
Location: everywhere
Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

Kirk Lazarus in Tropic Thunder?
captcalhoun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10 2010, 09:55 PM   #1810
Captaindemotion
Vice Admiral
 
Captaindemotion's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

^But that was a white actor playing a white actor playing a black in a movie within a movie. Not a real instance.

Unless you're just being facetious!
__________________
Hodor!!!!!!!
Captaindemotion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10 2010, 10:22 PM   #1811
Herbert
Captain
 
Herbert's Avatar
 
Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

^I just wanted you to question what you were saying concerning make-ups used to transform caucasian actors into Asians, blacks, arabs and other races and ethnicities. Make-ups have progressed that it is possible to convincingly transform an actor from one race or ethnicity to another. But we seem to immediately reject the idea as offensive because of past culturally and racially offensive portrayals and systemic racial discrimination in hiring practices in Hollywood.

Because if we were to accept your arguments, Alexander Siddig (Siddig El Fadil), should only play arabs and Latin types. Avery Brooks should only play blacks and African Americans.

Remember that Eddie Murphy was able to convincingly play an elderly caucasian Jewish man in Coming to America.
Herbert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11 2010, 12:45 AM   #1812
JD
Admiral
 
JD's Avatar
 
Location: Arizona, USA
Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

Personally, I would rather see Alexander Siddig, or Avery Brooks playing characters that are their race, than see a white actor take a role where the character has to be another race. Sure we people could away with that kind of stuff back when people either didn't know better or didn't care.
Oh, and if they do decide to include Khan in the next Trek movie, I would rather see an Indian actor cast.
__________________
Over the course of many encounters and many years, I have successfully developed a standard operating procedure for dealing with big, nasty monsters. Run away. Me and Monty Python.
Harry Dresden - Blood Rites (The Dresden Files #6)
JD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11 2010, 03:43 AM   #1813
DevilEyes
Rear Admiral
 
DevilEyes's Avatar
 
Location: basking in the warmth of the Fire Caves
View DevilEyes's Twitter Profile
Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
On the other hand, it is extremely difficult for someone from one ethnic race to play someone from a different race and the results are generally offensive to people whose race is being impersonated. .
Lost has Naveen Andrews, an actor or Indian origin, playing an Arab, despite not looking remotely like one. Other than a few online posts by Arabs who find it offensive, I haven't noticed any widespread outrage.

(I guess we could always fanwank that, say, Sayid has South Asian origin on his mother's side... and even Lost had a joke about it in season 5 with
__________________
Treason, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

my Buffy/Angel rewatch
DevilEyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11 2010, 06:39 AM   #1814
JD
Admiral
 
JD's Avatar
 
Location: Arizona, USA
Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

I don't know what kind of reaction it's gotten, but it's kind of a similar story with Bollywood (and Slumdog Millionaire) star Anil Kapoor playing the President of a fiction middle eastern country. Yeah, it's fictional, but it seems pretty clear that it's meant to be something along the lines of Iraq or Iran. Although the people playing his family and other people from his country are Middle Easter. I only could find the actors playing a security agent and his wife, but they are Palestinian/Australian, and Iranian respectively.
__________________
Over the course of many encounters and many years, I have successfully developed a standard operating procedure for dealing with big, nasty monsters. Run away. Me and Monty Python.
Harry Dresden - Blood Rites (The Dresden Files #6)
JD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11 2010, 08:29 AM   #1815
captcalhoun
Admiral
 
Location: everywhere
Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
^But that was a white actor playing a white actor playing a black in a movie within a movie. Not a real instance.

Unless you're just being facetious!
yes, yes i was.
captcalhoun is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
characters

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:59 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.