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Old March 6 2010, 08:00 PM   #361
wjaspers
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

ZStar wrote: View Post
wjaspers - Those are some beautiful renders. However, to my eye it looks like your interior is scaled too small for the exterior. What dimensions did you use for the bridge interior and the bridge module exterior?
First the bridge interiors. These I made back in 2005. The TWOK bridge was made up to scale 1:1, I used the bleuprints they made for building the actual movie bridge, since it has been a few years, I'm not that sure, but I think I got them from Seanr.
From that I used the circumference of the TWOK bridge to build the TUC bridge, and they do line up perfectly, distance to the ceiling, distance from the center to the turbolifts. And I had some nice bleuprints of the TUC stations.

So that would mean I did as much as I could do to have them up to scale.

The Ent I build in 2008, in AutoCad, no textures, all panels build. You will understand, building the Ent panel by panel, one must be sure that the measurements are correct. I used numerous of sources, provided to me by fellow modelers. And it was also build 1:1.

I can also say that the bridge module is a match to Dennis Bailey's bridge module. So I guess that would be OK.

So yesterday, to proove my statement that every bridge would fit, I thought, wat if I would merge the bridges into my Ent? and to my surprise those pics is what turned out.

Now, here is a pic so you can see there is no other possibility:

What you see here is the TWOK bridge, the green lines are the center of the dome, we know (at least I know) that the turbolifts are set 30 degree from the center, these are the red lines. I also know the distance of the center of the turbolifts to the center of the bridge ie dome. On the outside of the module I know the top of the turbolifts because I can see them. Put those together and done.
Hope this makes sense. In other words, making the circumference of the bridge bigger, and the center will shift away from the center of the dome, or if you keep the center, the lifts will shift further away.






Here is another one:

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Old March 6 2010, 08:12 PM   #362
wjaspers
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

Bernard Guignard wrote: View Post
When I first saw the doors in the foward Position I thought that it was a hallway going to the turboelevator shaft. So I came up with this variation


Great work by the way.
Nice, however, like the bleuprints of the bridges at the LCARS database, your bleuprint is not long enough.
Compare this: you have the airlock right behind the turbolifts, look at the outside of the bridge module, there is a lot of space between the turbolifts and the airlock.
On this bleuprint and the ones on the LCARS database there is no room for that thingie on top with the navlight.

Now for your solution with the placement of the doors and the lifts in its original position, had not thought about that, creative but in the movie, you can see the turbolift.

You could also imagine that the turbolift comes up in its original position, and moves a few meters horizontal to get in the new position (think turbolifts can move vertical and horizontal).
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Old March 6 2010, 09:30 PM   #363
Bernard Guignard
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

wjaspers wrote: View Post
Bernard Guignard wrote: View Post
When I first saw the doors in the foward Position I thought that it was a hallway going to the turboelevator shaft. So I came up with this variation


Great work by the way.
Nice, however, like the bleuprints of the bridges at the LCARS database, your bleuprint is not long enough.
Compare this: you have the airlock right behind the turbolifts, look at the outside of the bridge module, there is a lot of space between the turbolifts and the airlock.
On this bleuprint and the ones on the LCARS database there is no room for that thingie on top with the navlight.

Now for your solution with the placement of the doors and the lifts in its original position, had not thought about that, creative but in the movie, you can see the turbolift.

You could also imagine that the turbolift comes up in its original position, and moves a few meters horizontal to get in the new position (think turbolifts can move vertical and horizontal).
wjaspers I Drew that In 1999 All I had to go with were the Kimble blueprints and the Lawrence Miller Bridge drawings for the interior proportions, I figure that I did pretty good considering my source material. I would later get the Bridge Poster from ST 6. I used that poster as a basis for alot bridge varients. I wish I had some of the material that you fellows had to work with now. I just realised that that cad file is now 11 years old Back then when I watched the movies I thought I noticed that no stood
waiting in the turbolift Like the old series they just walked
in and out the door but its been a long time since I've watched some of those movies even though I own them.
That Bridge became the main Bridge of the USS Malverne
Fredrikstad Shuttle Carrier Blueprints which I drew up for that Starfleet Chapter back in the Nineties. It was a fantastic time to be drawing Trek.

Looking foward to seeing more of your outstanding work.
Keep up the great work
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Last edited by Bernard Guignard; March 6 2010 at 09:32 PM. Reason: correction
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Old March 7 2010, 03:34 AM   #364
ZStar
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

wjaspers – It sounds like you should be working form solid interior dimensions if you were working from the actual set construction plans. I have never had access to those so all of my numbers are best guesses from other sources. Bernard’s plans are closer to the interior/exterior proportions I am familiar with. I agree that your interior lines up with your exterior “turbolift hatches” very well. But…if your interior is correct, I still think your exterior is too big. Let me run through some number and see what you and others think…

My best guess for the diameter of the handrail around the inner part of the bridge is 20’ (can you check that with the set plans? Can anyone else provide a better value?)

If the Polar Lights 1/350 bridge module is reasonably accurate (I assume it is accurate to +/-5%), I get a dome diameter of about 40’ where it hits the flatter housing over the floodlights.

If I use the 20’ handrail diameter to scale your exterior dome, I get a dome diameter of about 54’. That is about 35% larger than the PL bridge dome and implies an overall length for the Refit of somewhere between 1300’ and 1400’. That is much larger than the official length of 1000’

If anyone else has better numbers, please check my math.
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Old March 7 2010, 03:57 AM   #365
CTM
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

FWIW I have the diameter of the docking ring on the rear of the bridge at approx 2m (I don't have the exact number handy, but IIRC it was 2.23 or something like that). Using that dimension, the interiors are a much tighter fit than wjasper's renders. While I would give my wisdom teeth to have the interior set plan details he has, as we already know the sets don't necessarily match up with the filming models. As I see it, the bridge interior dome fits with little room to spare inside the exterior dome. Furthermore, form follows function. The mini dome-tops seen on the bridge module are there for a reason they wouldn't just be there for decoration*. It is my position (and this ship will be built according to that position) that they are the tops of the turbo lifts at the bridge level. Others may see it differently, and in wjasper's case, he has clearly gone to the effort to model it so. I only wish I could render my models as effectively - perhaps in time, once I've completed actual model building I can start working on textures and rendering in a program suited for it.

*Yes, I am perfectly aware that in truth the extra bits on these models are actually there just for decoration, but that makes no sense "in universe", so I'm sticking with the premise. Certainly Mr. Probert put some thought into some of these sorts of things - even if he didn't narrow it down to the exact micrometer it would actually have to be (nor should he have - we're the sick obsessed fans who are complaining about the locations of rivets on ships that never really existed ).
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Old March 7 2010, 05:59 AM   #366
wjaspers
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

OK, checked my references and my original TWOK bridge, seems I did scale it to fit the turbolifts. Sorry about that.
The railing is as guessed 20' in diameter, as is the "pit" Chekow and Sulu are sitting in. The outher wall, that would be on the bottom, has a diameter of 35,5'. The ceiling height, that is where all those fancy lights are, is 7,65' heigh. The ceiling height of the bridge INTERIOR dome is 9,9'. The walls go up with a curve of 10,5'.

The dome of the Ent, with a lenght of 1000' has a diameter of 38.8'.

Now, if I put The correct TWOK bridge into the refit, then the bridge fits in very nice, but the turbolifts now are WAY OFF, and I'm afraid they might also fall outside the module. Don't have time right now, but if interested I will put up some pics of the result.

So I guess for CTM, it leaves him using only the TMP bridge in this case. Which is the toughest of them all. OR lower the TUC bridge into the C deck a bit so the turbolifts fall inside the dome. OR use the TUC bridge and put the center backwards toward the airlock.

Anyway, it seems the original builders did line up the center of dome and the center of the turbolifts, but then screwed the proportions. If you take the bridge with a diameter of 35,5' and then put the turbolifts where they are supposed to be from the outside seen, they fall well inside the bridge itself.
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Old March 7 2010, 06:02 AM   #367
wjaspers
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

CTM wrote: View Post
we're the sick obsessed fans who are complaining about the locations of rivets on ships that never really existed .
LOL, exactly
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Old March 7 2010, 01:59 PM   #368
Bernard Guignard
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

I forgot to mention that I also was working from Shane Johnsons Mr Scott's Guide to the Enterprise

Do you have access to Herman Zimmerman's Bridge Poster?
it might help you

CTM Love what you are doing in AutoCad.

WJaspers What is the dia of the Turbolift shaft from the TMP Bridge Plans ?

Keep up the great work All.
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Last edited by Bernard Guignard; March 7 2010 at 02:09 PM. Reason: asking question
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Old March 7 2010, 04:19 PM   #369
ZStar
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Location: Columbus, OH
Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

wjaspers - I'm glad this has been resolved. Your interior renders really do look fantastic.

CTM - I've been down the dark road of starting from some bad numbers in CAD-land and didn't want to see your hard work sidetracked. Keep up the good work!

Who is a "sick obsessed fan?" Oh... yeah, me! Maybe we just care enough to appear obsessive.
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Old March 9 2010, 07:43 PM   #370
Saquist
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

So whos wrong and whos right.
Lets not be shy about our errors....I need a clear answer.
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Old March 9 2010, 11:15 PM   #371
CTM
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

Saquist wrote: View Post
So whos wrong and whos right.
Lets not be shy about our errors....I need a clear answer.

As always, I* am.





* for varying values of "I"
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Old March 10 2010, 08:40 PM   #372
wjaspers
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

Saquist wrote: View Post
So whos wrong and whos right.
Lets not be shy about our errors....I need a clear answer.
CTM wrote: View Post
As always, I* am.

* for varying values of "I"
Varying values of "I", yes guess that's it.

Another interior which does not seem to fit.

Made two last pics for anyone interested:

First pic shows the TWOK bridge in the right scale, notice that now the turbolifts stick out the module, however with a little work and just a bit rescaling they could fit in I guess. But they will never correspond to the little domes on top of the module.

Second pic, a cilinder presenting where the turbolift would be if it would correspond to the outside.

Last pics I'm showing, showed too much allready in someone else his thread.

CTM, good luck with whatever you should decide how and which bridge to put in. Anyway you do it, you won't have any comments from me, difficult as it is.



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Old March 11 2010, 05:44 AM   #373
Gagarin
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

wjaspers wrote: View Post
Saquist wrote: View Post
So whos wrong and whos right.
Lets not be shy about our errors....I need a clear answer.
CTM wrote: View Post
As always, I* am.

* for varying values of "I"
Varying values of "I", yes guess that's it.

Another interior which does not seem to fit.

Made two last pics for anyone interested:

First pic shows the TWOK bridge in the right scale, notice that now the turbolifts stick out the module, however with a little work and just a bit rescaling they could fit in I guess. But they will never correspond to the little domes on top of the module.

Second pic, a cilinder presenting where the turbolift would be if it would correspond to the outside.

Last pics I'm showing, showed too much allready in someone else his thread.

CTM, good luck with whatever you should decide how and which bridge to put in. Anyway you do it, you won't have any comments from me, difficult as it is.



Mmm...while I can't put my finger on it...

say, could you like, start another thread and post your stuff there?

Between CLB being...gone, Shaw doing real work stuff or what not, there's not much else going on here!
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Old March 23 2010, 01:00 AM   #374
CTM
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Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

I hate it when life gets in the way of love.
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Old March 23 2010, 02:49 AM   #375
Saquist
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Location: Starbase Houston
Re: WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

You can't have two loves...one is always jealous of the other.
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