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Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old February 24 2010, 03:56 AM   #16
FalTorPan
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Re: TOS Enterprise Shuttle Storage?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Had a shuttlecraft model as a kid, it's possible that they literally stack them one on top of the other, against the forward bulkhead.
I never considered stacking to be a possibility. Fascinating!
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Old February 26 2010, 05:13 AM   #17
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Enterprise Shuttle Storage?

I was recently building a lightwave model of the Enterprise and came upon the same idea that Timo wrote where the shuttles are stored below the flight deck in the hangar deck. Rather than using deck blueprints for the internal areas, I relied on screenshots from "Journey To Babel", "The Immunity Syndrome" and "The Conscience of the King"...

For those interested, here is screen shot of the layout:

http://www.foundation3d.com/forums/a...5&d=1267156722

Cheers,
Peter
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Old February 26 2010, 10:10 AM   #18
Mytran
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Re: TOS Enterprise Shuttle Storage?

That looks good particularly the section of corridor outside which we saw in detail in "Journey to Babel" and "Immunity Syndrome" - I'm a bit of a groupie for set accuracy

Just one question - is that middle one of the three shuttlecraft parking in front of the doors?
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Old February 26 2010, 06:23 PM   #19
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Enterprise Shuttle Storage?

Thanks Mytran

Yes on the middle shuttlecraft. I just put it there to illustrate that it is wide enough for three shuttles.

I rendered two comparison shots. One from the scene in "Journey to Babel" at the door looking into the hangar and one from the often used one for the flight deck.

In the hangar deck shot, I removed the middle shuttle and left the two (one on each side of the door) and rendered away. Neither of the two parked shuttles were visible from that vantage point so it is possible that from all the scenes we've seen in TOS that you can have two parked shuttles in the hangar deck and not be able to see them

On the flight deck, there could be room to park three more up there as well. Since the ships were suppose to have a four shuttle complement, it could work that three were in the hangar deck (2 parked by near wall, 1 on the elevator pad ready to go) and 1 stored on the flight deck near the forward wall. There would still be room for two, maybe three more shuttles without stopping up shuttle operations.

You can see my work in progress here:

http://www.foundation3d.com/forums/s...?t=8167&page=2

Also, just for grins, I replaced the shuttles with the larger Galileo 5 from ST:V and everything still fits!

There were some compromises I did make to get everything to fit though. The flight deck is much longer than what has been drawn in any blueprint I've ever seen. Also, there are two window ports to the outside from the observation deck that I could not match up no matter how much I mess with the location of the hangar deck. (You can see the windows in a scene from "Conscience of the King".) The best I could do is to relocate or add those windows on the outside in a much more forward location....

Cheers,
Peter
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Old February 27 2010, 12:37 AM   #20
Mytran
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Re: TOS Enterprise Shuttle Storage?

That's good stuff, very well done! You're exploring most of the "quirky" aspects of the shuttlebay set in 3-D which is exactly what I've wanted to do - except I lack the time and tools to learn 3-D modelling! It's reassuring to know that there's someone else out there who's also interested in this aspect of Trek

I particularly like the way you've used the "something" at the top of the shuttle-room set as being the hatch-hole (for want of a better word). You know the one I mean? It's circled in your picture:



However, the shot from trekmovie.com doesn't show the full detail. Here is the maximum ceiling shot that we get to see from "Journey To Babel"



There's a thread elsewhere on this board that speculates what this area of the set might actually be - but it fits into your design pretty well, regardless of it actually was. This is something that can only be borne out in 3-D, which is where your models come in very useful.

On a slight aside:
At first I thought the people in your shots looked a little small (or the shuttle a bit big)...



...then, reading around the thread at foundation3d.com I see you've selected a 24' shuttlecraft, which explains the slightly larger shuttle compared to the screenshots. The actual size of the mock-up is documented here and is slightly under 20'.

For what it's worth, I actually think the 29' shuttlecraft makes a lot more sense, given that it's a longe range (see Metamorphosis) spacecraft. However, fitting it into what we see on screen is a bloomin' nightmare!

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
...The flight deck is much longer than what has been drawn in any blueprint I've ever seen. Also, there are two window ports to the outside from the observation deck that I could not match up no matter how much I mess with the location of the hangar deck. (You can see the windows in a scene from "Conscience of the King".) The best I could do is to relocate or add those windows on the outside in a much more forward location....
Yeah, the window ports are one of the aforementioned headbangers. For one thing, if we were to go by the episode; the spacebound windows on the set are square (at best), whereas the ones one the exterior model are rectangular.



Yes there are ways you could rationalise this discrepancy, but it remains an idiosyncrasy nonetheless. And then there's the question of the pylons support structure, which if the shuttlebay is as large as appears on screen would appear to be non-existent - that future tech is something else!

Seriously though, I am very impressed with what you've done, and look forward to seeing more in the near future
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Old February 27 2010, 12:56 AM   #21
Captain Robert April
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Re: TOS Enterprise Shuttle Storage?

One thing to add a bit more complexity to the issue: The doors to the hangar deck shown in "Journey to Babel" aren't the same as shown in "The Immunity Syndrome."

The way I figure it, the doors in "Babel" open onto the flight deck itself, whereas in "Immunity" we're seeing the hangar deck directly below.
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Old February 27 2010, 11:12 AM   #22
Mytran
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Re: TOS Enterprise Shuttle Storage?

They're different - really?



Or were you thinking of the setup in "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield"? There's all sort of wierd stuff happening there - what's up with the funny angle the wall is on?



There's also a lot more "tech stuff" in the foyer area, compared to to the clean look of "Journey to Babel".



So this could very well be another area of the ship, as you suggested. However, the doors in JTB and TIS are (I believe) the same area.
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Old February 28 2010, 06:15 AM   #23
Captain Robert April
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Re: TOS Enterprise Shuttle Storage?

JTB is in a alcove, TIS is on a corridor.
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Old February 28 2010, 08:32 AM   #24
Mytran
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Re: TOS Enterprise Shuttle Storage?

Well we see the alcove in both episodes, we just don't see what it's connected to in JTB. Sarek and co. walk through the triangular door frame and don't go any further (cos they stop to talk to Kirk), but we don't see anything to contradict TIS. It's also the way that Kirk et al entered the scene. And if that route doesn't lead to a corridor, where does it go?

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Old February 28 2010, 06:13 PM   #25
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Enterprise Shuttle Storage?

Mytran wrote: View Post
However, the shot from trekmovie.com doesn't show the full detail. Here is the maximum ceiling shot that we get to see from "Journey To Babel"


Thanks Mytran

Good eyes! I didn't even notice those three "somethings" there. I went in and added them to the elevator hatch "inner lip" ? and rendered out a new version. (I also moved the elevator walls further out so they don't show up as much in the render.) You can see the revised image here:

http://www.foundation3d.com/forums/a...0&d=1267307938


Mytran wrote: View Post
For what it's worth, I actually think the 29' shuttlecraft makes a lot more sense, given that it's a longe range (see Metamorphosis) spacecraft. However, fitting it into what we see on screen is a bloomin' nightmare!
Funny you should mention that. When I was positioning everything, it was for a 29' shuttle. You can see in my early renders how massive it looks inside the bay. I rescaled it down to 24' (instead of 20') to accommodate the dialogue. But the elevator and turntable I left untouched and will still take a 29' shuttle

Mytran wrote: View Post
Yeah, the window ports are one of the aforementioned headbangers. For one thing, if we were to go by the episode; the spacebound windows on the set are square (at best), whereas the ones one the exterior model are rectangular.



Yes there are ways you could rationalise this discrepancy, but it remains an idiosyncrasy nonetheless. And then there's the question of the pylons support structure, which if the shuttlebay is as large as appears on screen would appear to be non-existent - that future tech is something else!
Yep. I think I'll just add two squarish windows and hope no one notices

As far as the pylon support structure, I'm mocking up something that I think could work. I'm using the interior shots from ST:TMP as inspiration and one thing I've noticed is that the TMP Enterprise is it seems that the pylons and neck support structure doesn't extend very far into the hull itself (at least not obviously anyway).
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Old February 28 2010, 06:28 PM   #26
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Enterprise Shuttle Storage?

I just re-watched it (go CBS/IMDB!) And it does look like there is no wall on the right if you look at it carefully in JTB. But, like Mytran noted, the camera doesn't pull further back and the closeup of McCoy just shows a wall behind him. Now you could say that the vertical strip behind him indicates that it is moving away from him and not part of the corridor seen in TIS, but for my purposes I'm going with the structure for the corridor+foyer is the same in both JTB and TIS. Cosmetically, they can be different and I'm okay with that

Just to throw another twist into it...

The foyer, angle of the pressure door wall and what is behind it is radically different in "The Doomsday Machine". As soon as I can get a screencap I'll post it up.

Based on the current info you guys have and what I've seen so far:

JTB and TIS = same foyer to go to hangar deck below flight deck.

LTBYLBF = turbolift next to foyer, most likely on the flight deck level. I'm reasoning this because when the door opens to the hangar deck it is green lit which corresponds to Kirk pointing to a green lit flight deck in "The Conscience of the King".

DM = same corridor stucture as TIS, but the foyer is completely different. My particular concept of the shuttlebay does have room for a deck between the hangar deck and flight deck, so I'm going to shove this mystery deck right there

Mytran wrote: View Post
Well we see the alcove in both episodes, we just don't see what it's connected to in JTB. Sarek and co. walk through the triangular door frame and don't go any further (cos they stop to talk to Kirk), but we don't see anything to contradict TIS. It's also the way that Kirk et al entered the scene. And if that route doesn't lead to a corridor, where does it go?

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Old February 28 2010, 07:53 PM   #27
Mytran
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Re: TOS Enterprise Shuttle Storage?

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
I just re-watched it (go CBS/IMDB!) And it does look like there is no wall on the right if you look at it carefully in JTB. But, like Mytran noted, the camera doesn't pull further back and the closeup of McCoy just shows a wall behind him. Now you could say that the vertical strip behind him indicates that it is moving away from him and not part of the corridor seen in TIS, but for my purposes I'm going with the structure for the corridor+foyer is the same in both JTB and TIS. Cosmetically, they can be different and I'm okay with that

I also noticed that for the first time when I was preparing these images. That silver strip is a typical "flat joiner" that was used throughout the corridor set on TOS, so it seems likely that the wall behind McCoy is a continuous stretch (instead of the corner it would normally be):



It's very strange but lends credence to my idea that the "foyer" wasn't actually a redressed part of the corridor set at all, but a series of wild walls positioned just outside wherever it was they they filmed the live-action shuttlebay interior.

And what the hell is that greeble next to McCoy? It's too small for a red alert lamp and the wrong colour for a communicator panel. Suggestions anyone?



Of course, we never actually see that side of the corridor in IS, so they can still be the same location, regardless of bizzare ship design!

Onto Doomsday Machine:



That's a completely different part of the ship, sure enough! Actually, its recycled parts of the circular briefing room from "The Cage" and WNMHGB. Personally, I always put that scene down to being on the Hangar Deck level, but not actually near the pressure doors themselves (notice how the blue doors in the above pic are missing the green/red lights previously seen above pressure doors).

Finally - blssdwlf's updated shuttlebay design (with the 3 "somethings" I mentioned) is looking great! BTW, thanks for info about your shuttle sizes. It's nice to know that all sizes of shuttlecraft are welcome on your ship!
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Old February 28 2010, 08:14 PM   #28
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Re: TOS Enterprise Shuttle Storage?

Just my two quatloos worth, wasn't the "shuttle alcove" always the same section of corridor -the one opposite the engine room doors on the set? If you look at TOS set plans, (which I don't have access to at the moment, but I'm sure someone can oblige)there was just enough room on the sound stage behind there to park the shuttle mockup, with the blue backdrop hiding the soundstage walls. Anywho, regardless of whatever minor changes were made from ep to ep, for lighting and camera angles etc., I think the area has remained fairly consistant.
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Old February 28 2010, 11:15 PM   #29
scotpens
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Re: TOS Enterprise Shuttle Storage?

TIN_MAN wrote: View Post
. . . If you look at TOS set plans, (which I don't have access to at the moment, but I'm sure someone can oblige)there was just enough room on the sound stage behind there to park the shuttle mockup, with the blue backdrop hiding the soundstage walls.
Here are the plans for the standing sets from TMOST. I don't see enough room next to Engineering or anywhere else for the shuttlecraft. Maybe they used the adjacent soundstage?

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Old March 1 2010, 12:39 AM   #30
TIN_MAN
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Re: TOS Enterprise Shuttle Storage?

Well, it might have been the hallway between the briefing room and transporter? In any case, the sets were changed between the 1st season and 2nd/3rd season, so that would factor in. But the "A" frame doors at the end of the radial hallway sections was the same in all cases.
P.S. Thanks for posting the image, scotpens.

Last edited by TIN_MAN; March 1 2010 at 05:32 AM.
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