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Science and Technology "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." - Carl Sagan.

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Old February 18 2010, 12:45 PM   #31
Deckerd
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Re: US retreat leaves China leading way in race to return to Moon

TheMasterOfOrion wrote: View Post
China won't go to the Moon, the Chinese will land robots there but its not the Chinaman's final destination. China unlike the old Soviet program the Chinese state gov has left a lot of news reports and info out in the open. Some of it is smoke and mirrors, so you need to be cynical and critical to see what they are really up to. They are building a rocket for heavy lift payloads but they will not colonize the Moon. The Moon is too bare and inhospitable to ever be colonized even in the 21st century its still to baron and bare for us.
Mars will be China's final destination, got an atmosphere, almost a 24 hr day and lots of resources, they could sustain a colony there and truly make Mars a red planet. First China will need to have gained experience in long term flight, I can see this after they have kept people on a space station around 2017 ish, the Chinese are a production and economic power house, their economy barely took any blows during the global financial meltdown and they easily have the tech to build a long term space station. Once they have gained experience in long term flight they will have the raw data and guts to make that 6 month voyage to Mars. The mission the Chinese take will be very similar to the one outlined by aerospace engineer and author Robert Zubrin. Once the Chinese make Mars theirs this century will truly be a Chinese one.
You seem to forget the age-old human tradition of telling the imperial overlords a long way away to shove it where the sun don't shine. The Chinese will be no different than any other humans: we settled here; this is our land; you can't tell us what to do.
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Old February 18 2010, 12:49 PM   #32
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Re: US retreat leaves China leading way in race to return to Moon

^
More reason why Space exploration needs to be a global effort.

Not that it will happen that way.
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Old February 18 2010, 01:00 PM   #33
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Re: US retreat leaves China leading way in race to return to Moon

There will be plenty of physiological problems in settling on Mars for a long time. The low gravity will take its toll on the human body and may well affect such functions as fertility, not to mention being born (if this turns out to be possible) and growing in low gravity and what that might do to the body and mind. That's why Venus, for all its problems, is a more realistic prospect for long-term settlement.
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Old February 18 2010, 01:29 PM   #34
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Re: US retreat leaves China leading way in race to return to Moon

Doing anything in space requires our technology to be way better than it is now...which disappoints many people.

Venus is an often forgotten planet...but much can be done there...I think the masses want a quick and easy space exploration fix. More exciting things can happen beyond Mars...once again for humans to have colonies, our technology needs to improve.

Mining the moon, at this point seems the best idea...not really popular.
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Old February 18 2010, 10:52 PM   #35
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Re: US retreat leaves China leading way in race to return to Moon

Venus!?!? You mean the planet that is tidally locked, has 400 degree surface temperatures, no water, sulphuric acid for an atmosphere and a surface pressure of 100 atmospheres?

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! yea right, it's much easier to colonize than Mars! Do you know how long the last probe on Venus lasted before succumbing to those conditions? Less than an hour.Just because Venus has a size and gravity similar to earth does not make it anywhere near easier.
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Old February 19 2010, 11:50 AM   #36
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Re: US retreat leaves China leading way in race to return to Moon

sojourner wrote: View Post
Venus!?!? You mean the planet that is tidally locked, has 400 degree surface temperatures, no water, sulphuric acid for an atmosphere and a surface pressure of 100 atmospheres?

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! yea right, it's much easier to colonize than Mars! Do you know how long the last probe on Venus lasted before succumbing to those conditions? Less than an hour.Just because Venus has a size and gravity similar to earth does not make it anywhere near easier.
Colonization
Main article: Colonization of Venus
Due to the extremely hostile conditions on the surface, current technology disallows any possibility of colonizing the surface of Venus soon. However, there have been recent speculations about the possibility of developing extensive "floating cities" in the atmosphere of Venus in the future.[125] This concept is based on the atmospheric conditions approximately fifty kilometres above the surface of the planet, where atmospheric pressures and temperatures are thought to be similar to those of Earth. Proposals suggest that manned exploration can be conducted from aerostat vehicles, followed in the longer term by permanent settlements.[125] The existence of dangerous quantities of volatile acids at these heights, however, precludes any short term settlements.[125]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus

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Old February 19 2010, 11:28 PM   #37
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Re: US retreat leaves China leading way in race to return to Moon

I think it's so funny that even today, in the year 2010, some people cling to this 1950's-era belief that the Moon belongs to America, and that it ought rightfully be the USA that leads mankind into space, no matter the destination.

If the Chinese go to the Moon, great for them... why shouldn't they have that aspect to their national pride? Why should the USA have a monopoly on the space program being a source of national inspiration/direction?

What would happen if somehow, the first nation to send a manned team to Mars is a Muslim nation, like Iran or Egypt? Who cares? The point is that it gets done, not who does it.
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Old February 20 2010, 04:38 AM   #38
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Re: US retreat leaves China leading way in race to return to Moon

^
This is why I think space exploration should be and global effort...I am sure there are alot of bright minds from nations that don't even have or close to have a space program like the USA, Europe, Russia, Japan or China...but could add something to the effort.
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Old February 20 2010, 07:14 PM   #39
sojourner
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Re: US retreat leaves China leading way in race to return to Moon

Jetfire wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
Venus!?!? You mean the planet that is tidally locked, has 400 degree surface temperatures, no water, sulphuric acid for an atmosphere and a surface pressure of 100 atmospheres?

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! yea right, it's much easier to colonize than Mars! Do you know how long the last probe on Venus lasted before succumbing to those conditions? Less than an hour.Just because Venus has a size and gravity similar to earth does not make it anywhere near easier.
Colonization
Main article: Colonization of Venus
Due to the extremely hostile conditions on the surface, current technology disallows any possibility of colonizing the surface of Venus soon. However, there have been recent speculations about the possibility of developing extensive "floating cities" in the atmosphere of Venus in the future.[125] This concept is based on the atmospheric conditions approximately fifty kilometres above the surface of the planet, where atmospheric pressures and temperatures are thought to be similar to those of Earth. Proposals suggest that manned exploration can be conducted from aerostat vehicles, followed in the longer term by permanent settlements.[125] The existence of dangerous quantities of volatile acids at these heights, however, precludes any short term settlements.[125]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus

Yes, that's clearly much easier than colonizing Mars.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
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Old February 21 2010, 06:30 PM   #40
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Re: US retreat leaves China leading way in race to return to Moon

sojourner wrote: View Post
Jetfire wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
Venus!?!? You mean the planet that is tidally locked, has 400 degree surface temperatures, no water, sulphuric acid for an atmosphere and a surface pressure of 100 atmospheres?

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! yea right, it's much easier to colonize than Mars! Do you know how long the last probe on Venus lasted before succumbing to those conditions? Less than an hour.Just because Venus has a size and gravity similar to earth does not make it anywhere near easier.
Colonization
Main article: Colonization of Venus
Due to the extremely hostile conditions on the surface, current technology disallows any possibility of colonizing the surface of Venus soon. However, there have been recent speculations about the possibility of developing extensive "floating cities" in the atmosphere of Venus in the future.[125] This concept is based on the atmospheric conditions approximately fifty kilometres above the surface of the planet, where atmospheric pressures and temperatures are thought to be similar to those of Earth. Proposals suggest that manned exploration can be conducted from aerostat vehicles, followed in the longer term by permanent settlements.[125] The existence of dangerous quantities of volatile acids at these heights, however, precludes any short term settlements.[125]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus

Yes, that's clearly much easier than colonizing Mars.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
I never said it was easier...just one of many options.
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Old February 21 2010, 11:21 PM   #41
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Re: US retreat leaves China leading way in race to return to Moon

A very poor one. Building a floating colony in the atmosphere of Venus would actually be more difficult than one in orbit.
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Old February 21 2010, 11:31 PM   #42
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Re: US retreat leaves China leading way in race to return to Moon

^
Do we have anything in orbit around Venus??? It is closer than Mars...and I am sure some science can be had with an orbiter.

The same floating colony idea goes for Neptune & Uranus as well.
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Old February 22 2010, 12:05 AM   #43
sojourner
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Re: US retreat leaves China leading way in race to return to Moon

^There was a climate orbiter/radar mapper at one time. Not sure it's still there.
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Old February 22 2010, 02:06 PM   #44
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Re: US retreat leaves China leading way in race to return to Moon

Jetfire wrote: View Post
^
Do we have anything in orbit around Venus??? It is closer than Mars...and I am sure some science can be had with an orbiter.

The same floating colony idea goes for Neptune & Uranus as well.
ESA's Venus Express is orbiting the planet, NASA's MESSENGER did two fly-bys en route to Mercury. ESA, NASA, JAXA and Roscosmos are all planning future unmanned missions to Venus. Two of these plans include landers: the American Venus In-Situ Explorer and the Russian Venera-D.

But that's all not even remotely close to floating atmospheric colonies, of course.
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Old February 22 2010, 05:58 PM   #45
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Re: US retreat leaves China leading way in race to return to Moon

I would have thought below surface habitats were more realistic, where you don't have the corrosive atmosphere to battle constantly. There's so much heat, power would never be a problem and there's so much water in the atmosphere, water would never be a problem either.
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