When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?

[Kegg]

Dennis wrote:

---

Actually, the article that touched this topic off is well-observed and well written. That white Americans, particularly males, are so thin-skinned as a group that they can make a controversy out of the obvious goes a long way toward making the writer's point.

This is very true. I'm surprised at the amount of 'oh, well, all racism is bad' or 'I'm more ashamed to be human' responses. What does that have to do with white guilt or the myth of the white man subsuming himself in the foreign culture? Avatar takes the fantasy a step further; Lawrence may bemoan the fact he's got blue eyes and white skin but Jake can literally surrender that identity.

Hermiod wrote:

---

Agreed. As I said before, there's no such thing as "white people".

Course there are. Just because things aren't simple doesn't mean they're not so; there may be white Germans, white Irishmen, white Americans, but they've got this curious common denominator factor, can you guess what it'd be?

Heck I live on an island whose traditional racial hatreds were between two white groups and even I find this pretty obvious.

[T'Baio]

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

---

I have not oppressed...

You most likely have far more than you think, intentional or not, just by virtue of being a white male.

[Hermiod]

Kegg wrote:

---

Course there are. Just because things aren't simple doesn't mean they're not so; there may be white Germans, white Irishmen, white Americans, but they've got this curious common denominator factor, can you guess what it'd be?

Heck I live on an island whose traditional racial hatreds were between two white groups and even I find this pretty obvious.

I mean there is no such thing as "white people" in the context in which the term is being used here, one massive group of people unified in their evil scheme to keep the black man down.

[Hermiod]

T'Baio wrote:

---

You most likely have far more than you think, intentional or not, just by virtue of being a white male.

No, he hasn't. Most of us haven't. You make conscious decisions to discriminate and if he gives his word that he hasn't made such a decision then I, for one, believe him. You choose not to give a black man a job based on his colour, you choose to give an unfit mother custody of the kids, you choose not to let a gay man donate blood - these are choices you make. If you choose to do the right thing then you did not discriminate.

Thinking like this does absolutely nothing to help anyone.

[Kegg]

Hermiod wrote:

---

I mean there is no such thing as "white people" in the context in which the term is being used here, one massive group of people unified in their evil scheme to keep the black man down.

Nobody's said that. At most they've said there was systematic racism in how societies have been constructed, which seems a fair enough analysis.

[Hermiod]

Kegg wrote:

---

Nobody's said that. At most they've said there was systematic racism in how societies have been constructed, which seems a fair enough analysis.

The thread title says it. When will "white people" stop making movies like Avatar ?

[T'Baio]

Hermiod wrote:

---

No, he hasn't. Most of us haven't. You make conscious decisions to discriminate and if he gives his word that he hasn't made such a decision then I, for one, believe him. You choose not to give a black man a job based on his colour, you choose to give an unfit mother custody of the kids, you choose not to let a gay man donate blood - these are choices you make. If you choose to do the right thing then you did not discriminate.

Thinking like this does absolutely nothing to help anyone.

You're right. I apologize. He hasn't oppressed anyone. What I meant to say, and I said it poorly, is that he has probably benefitted from someone else's oppression by virtue of being a white male.

[David cgc]

Hermiod wrote:

---

I mean there is no such thing as "white people" in the context in which the term is being used here, one massive group of people unified in their evil scheme to keep the black man down.

There doesn't have to be an overt conspiracy for it to happen. Now, it's an interesting philosophical question as to whether or not someone should be considered morally culpable for being the beneficiary of white privilege, and I'd probably argue against that idea, but I feel very strongly that such privilege does exist, and that it is a problem of our society.

I'd recommend the works of Tim Wise if you're at all interested in the subject (and, since you're reading this and posting about it, you are).

[Kegg]

Hermiod wrote:

---

The thread title says it. When will "white people" stop making movies like Avatar ?

Yes, because the white people like James Cameron are intentionally putting the black man down, that's exactly what the implication of the thread title is.

[Hermiod]

Kegg wrote:

---

Yes, because the white people like James Cameron are intentionally putting the black man down, that's exactly what the implication of the thread title is.

And so, we come to the root of this thread - somebody watched this film and got it in to their head that James Cameron is racist.

I'll file that one with the woman that thinks Joss Whedon rapes his wife based on a few episodes of Firefly.

[Kegg]

Hermiod wrote:

---

And so, we come to the root of this thread - somebody watched this film and got it in to their head that James Cameron is racist.

No, we come to the root of how incoherent your viewpoint is. I was presenting something you'd have to accept as truthful for your past two statements above to make any kind of sense at all.

Look, being offended is one thing, but failing to understand the argument is sort of inexcusable. You understand white guilt, yes? That some white people might feel responsible for their privilege and the history of oppression and elimination and so on? And that then maybe they might make fantasies about how those people are saved, but they're still saved by white guys?

Because that's what the article is about. That's not really the same thing as saying James Cameron hates black people, now is it?

[Hermiod]

Kegg wrote:

---

No, we come to the root of how incoherent your viewpoint is. I was presenting something you'd have to accept as truthful for your past two statements above to make any kind of sense at all.

Look, being offended is one thing, but failing to understand the argument is sort of inexcusable. You understand white guilt, yes? That some white people might feel responsible for their privilege and the history of oppression and elimination and so on? And that then maybe they might make fantasies about how those people are saved, but they're still saved by white guys?

Because that's what the article is about. That's not really the same thing as saying James Cameron hates black people, now is it?

There's nothing incoherent about it at all. It was a very simple point - that there is no such thing as "white people" in the context in which the term is being used.

Let's face it, this thread has gone beyond a simple discussion of Avatar and movies like it.

[Neroon]

Seems as if we're treading over the same ground again, all too often away from the film itself and the associated subject matter, it's time to close this thread. There are other "Avatar" threads, so take advantage of them.

Thread closed