RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,318
Posts: 5,352,432
Members: 24,622
Currently online: 631
Newest member: groucho900

TrekToday headlines

Drexler TV Alert
By: T'Bonz on Jul 26

Retro Review: His Way
By: Michelle on Jul 26

MicroWarriors Releases Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Ships Of The Line Design Contest
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Next Weekend: Shore Leave 36!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

True Trek History To Be Penned
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Insight Editions Announces Three Trek Books For 2015
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

To Be Takei Review by Spencer Blohm
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Mulgrew: Playing Red
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Hallmark 2015 Trek Ornaments
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 6 2010, 01:11 PM   #16
bbailey861
Admiral
 
bbailey861's Avatar
 
Location: Kingston, ON
Re: The Problems of Remastering TNG, DS9 & VOY

That is unfortunate if only for the fact that with the proliferation of larger and larger HDTV screens, all older TV shows - not just ST - don't look all that great when played. It is almost to the point now where I only want to watch HD signals or Blu-rays on the large screen. If I want to watch anything else I go to the Sony CRT. When it goes, I'll need to get a 'small' HDTV so the signal still remains relatively decent. There is, of course, upscaling, but frankly the quality of the picture is still noticeable. I would hope than in the future, technology will be in a position to be able to overcome the problems that exist now with transfers. Don't really know enough about these things, though.
bbailey861 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 10 2010, 02:36 PM   #17
Tosk
Rear Admiral
 
Tosk's Avatar
 
Location: On the run.
Re: The Problems of Remastering TNG, DS9 & VOY

The original question, regarding going back and 'finding' the film footage, isn't outside the realms of possibility.

The Seinfeld DVDs were, to my knowledge, produced in that fashion. That went back to the masters and re-edited everything anew to the exact frame. Now, Trek also has the effects to worry about, but the fact that the original film is presumably still good to go, we may see them redone "some day".

I'm not holding my breath, but a man can dream.

Remastering aside, I'd kill just for DVDs that didn't look like smeared crap half the time. TNG and (even moreso) DS9 really suffers due to porr compression.
Tosk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 10 2010, 03:49 PM   #18
Sparky
Commodore
 
Sparky's Avatar
 
Location: Calgary, Alberta. Canuckistan
Re: The Problems of Remastering TNG, DS9 & VOY

Tosk wrote: View Post
The original question, regarding going back and 'finding' the film footage, isn't outside the realms of possibility.

The Seinfeld DVDs were, to my knowledge, produced in that fashion. That went back to the masters and re-edited everything anew to the exact frame. Now, Trek also has the effects to worry about, but the fact that the original film is presumably still good to go, we may see them redone "some day".

I'm not holding my breath, but a man can dream.

Remastering aside, I'd kill just for DVDs that didn't look like smeared crap half the time. TNG and (even moreso) DS9 really suffers due to porr compression.
That's exactly the problem. Not only would they have to go back to the original film and edit frame by frame they have to re-create or re-composite every single special effect from scratch...from every single starfield seen to every optical effect like transporters, phasers, mattes etc. They would basically have to recreate every single episode from scratch.
__________________
My journey is the same as yours, the same as anyone's. It's taken me so many years, so many lifetimes, but at last I know where I'm going, where I've always been going. Home...The long way round.
Sparky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 10 2010, 05:09 PM   #19
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: The Problems of Remastering TNG, DS9 & VOY

Perhaps they do a 'Best of' as a test run. They could select 22-26 episodes to remaster and sell those to stations for a weekly syndicated run.

And a Blu-Ray release of course...
__________________
"I had no idea you were so... formidable. " - Anan 7 to James T. Kirk, A Taste of Armageddon
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 10 2010, 08:29 PM   #20
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: The Problems of Remastering TNG, DS9 & VOY

Tosk wrote: View Post
The Seinfeld DVDs were, to my knowledge, produced in that fashion. That went back to the masters and re-edited everything anew to the exact frame.
Please explain. Why did those DVDs require all that work?
__________________
In labor news: Longshoremen walked off the piers today. Rescue operations are continuing.
Mr. Laser Beam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 10 2010, 08:42 PM   #21
jefferiestubes8
Commodore
 
Location: New York City
Re: The Problems of Remastering TNG, DS9 & VOY

because links are so much easier...
Harvey wrote: View Post
There's a long and heated thread in the TNG forum about the issues surrounding this.
Star Trek TNG Remastered?


Harvey wrote: View Post
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and Star Trek: Voyager are less likely candidates for Blu-Ray release

Harvey wrote: View Post
Star Trek: The Animated Series, like its live action counterpart, could easily be remastered and released on Blu-Ray,
Harvey wrote: View Post
Enterprise was mastered in widescreen HD,
I agree with Harvey's nutshell info.
Enterprise will get a Blu-ray release. Least amount of capital outlay from CBS Television to author the Blu-ray for a decent R.O.I. sometime in the next 2 years.

Here are the other related threads for you to read DS9Master83

REMASTER THE ENTIRE DEEP SPACE NINE SERIES.

Remaster the entire Voyager Series...........

Star Trek: Enterprise seasons Blu-ray spec. features wishlist
jefferiestubes8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 11 2010, 01:24 PM   #22
Tosk
Rear Admiral
 
Tosk's Avatar
 
Location: On the run.
Re: The Problems of Remastering TNG, DS9 & VOY

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Please explain. Why did those DVDs require all that work?
Because they wanted them to look their best, and the video-based versions used for TV at that point would not hold up on a better format.

I applaud them for the effort.


Oh, and I double-checked to make sure my memory was correct. ...

"Castle Rock Entertainment, which produced the show, returned to the original film elements and spent many months digitally remastering every episode in high definition; the original analog audio tracks went through a similar process."
http://www.filmstew.com/showArticle....ontentID=10084
Tosk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 11 2010, 01:41 PM   #23
Truth_Seeker
Lieutenant Commander
 
Truth_Seeker's Avatar
 
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
Re: The Problems of Remastering TNG, DS9 & VOY

I recall that the later seasons of Voyager aired in 720p, so remastering them to 1080p should not be that difficult.
__________________
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."
"V For Vendetta"
Truth_Seeker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 11 2010, 02:14 PM   #24
SFRabid
Commodore
 
SFRabid's Avatar
 
Re: The Problems of Remastering TNG, DS9 & VOY

Studios have already tried fooling people by releasing upscaled versions of shows and movies on blu-ray without going through a mastering process. Critics are quick to catch this and people are now more weary about what they purchase on blu-ray. You can now buy a lot of blu-ray content for under $10 that looks no better than a regular DVD played through a DVD player that upscales to HD.

I'm not sure how much is to be made on re-releasing something on blu-ray. I just bought the Star Trek TOS movie set for less than half of retail on Amazon. A few other movies I've bought recently come with 4 discs. Blu-ray movie, regular movie, computer digital release, and extra content DVD. All for under $20. It's getting competitive out there.
SFRabid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12 2010, 10:24 AM   #25
USS KG5
Vice Admiral
 
USS KG5's Avatar
 
Location: England's green and pleasant land.
Re: The Problems of Remastering TNG, DS9 & VOY

bbailey861 wrote: View Post
That is unfortunate if only for the fact that with the proliferation of larger and larger HDTV screens, all older TV shows - not just ST - don't look all that great when played. It is almost to the point now where I only want to watch HD signals or Blu-rays on the large screen. If I want to watch anything else I go to the Sony CRT. When it goes, I'll need to get a 'small' HDTV so the signal still remains relatively decent. There is, of course, upscaling, but frankly the quality of the picture is still noticeable. I would hope than in the future, technology will be in a position to be able to overcome the problems that exist now with transfers. Don't really know enough about these things, though.
Thing is though the TNG and DS9 series will never look as good as Blu Ray can look, or even close, without some truly massive work. Not just remastering but almost reconstruction. They were shot on cheap film and while they look better on DVD than say, the first three seasons of Buffy, they do not look very good.

Can't you just enjoy the story? Sometimes that really does have to be enough. Any brand new Trek show will doubtless be in HD with state-of-the-art effects and you will be able to look back on TNG much as many old shows as "of its time".
__________________
I believe in a better world, so I love Star Trek. I have to live in this one, so I love Battlestar Galactica.
USS KG5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12 2010, 11:16 AM   #26
Truth_Seeker
Lieutenant Commander
 
Truth_Seeker's Avatar
 
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
Re: The Problems of Remastering TNG, DS9 & VOY

bbailey861 wrote: View Post
That is unfortunate if only for the fact that with the proliferation of larger and larger HDTV screens, all older TV shows - not just ST - don't look all that great when played. It is almost to the point now where I only want to watch HD signals or Blu-rays on the large screen. If I want to watch anything else I go to the Sony CRT. When it goes, I'll need to get a 'small' HDTV so the signal still remains relatively decent. There is, of course, upscaling, but frankly the quality of the picture is still noticeable. I would hope than in the future, technology will be in a position to be able to overcome the problems that exist now with transfers. Don't really know enough about these things, though.
There's an old trick for watching low resolution video files with a better quality - play them on your PC and adjust the Windows resolution to 1024x768 or even 800x600. This way they look much better than when you watch them on a Full HD television screen.
__________________
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."
"V For Vendetta"
Truth_Seeker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12 2010, 03:15 PM   #27
trevanian
Rear Admiral
 
trevanian's Avatar
 
Re: The Problems of Remastering TNG, DS9 & VOY

USS KG5 wrote: View Post
Thing is though the TNG and DS9 series will never look as good as Blu Ray can look, or even close, without some truly massive work. Not just remastering but almost reconstruction. They were shot on cheap film
Film's still got a ton more latitude than any other originating format, so I don't know where you get off dismissing it. Maybe when there is a 4K TV set in ____ years, you'll be able to really SEE just how much info there is on a 35mm film frame.

And it wasn't CHEAP either ... stock price is such a concern that some pictures shoot 3-perf instead of 4-perf to save 25% of the film cost (they will sacrifice that much just to be able to shoot on film as opposed to digital capture.)
trevanian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13 2010, 10:01 PM   #28
Nick Ryder
Fleet Captain
 
Nick Ryder's Avatar
 
Location: Milwaukee, WI Da Brew City
Re: The Problems of Remastering TNG, DS9 & VOY

[QUOTE=
There's an old trick for watching low resolution video files with a better quality - play them on your PC and adjust the Windows resolution to 1024x768 or even 800x600. This way they look much better than when you watch them on a Full HD television screen. [/QUOTE]

"Old trick" wow... its already become an OLD TRICK? LOL

But yea that makes sense, providing someone has a computer hooked up to their TV. Although I forsee a day when most TVs will have a basic computer built right in, basically a glorified netbook built in to give it more extended PC functions and alternate ways of displaying content. With more and more video and such being served up online, a simple set top solution won't really be enough. I for one would love to be able to just open up my remote like a qwerty keyboard cell phone and pull up a web browser and play youtube or hulu videos on my tv, or hell play my own videos and such without having to put any kind of external drive up to my tv. In some ways the old WebTV was before its time, but all you really need is a couple inches in the back to hide an atom processor netbook and a bluetooth or rf receiver to link up to a remote keyboard either full size or built into the remote.

Once that day occurs and even old TV shows can play in a more native resolution on the High Def... we'll have to do work arounds. Honestly unless they SERIOUSLY remaster and add to the old TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT DVDs, I will never buy the BluRays. Other than maybe space saving, like if they can put all episodes from a season on like 2-3 bds, there's no real reason to upgrade.

I would love to see at least the first 3 seasons of TNG redone they look the most dated of the 7. Even DS9 wasn't that bad. TNG still reused a lot of TOS style effects and set work. I'd love to see the old "planet hell" set (like the one they used for Skin of Evil and Q-Who that ep where Riker was made into a Q - there were so many Q eps with similar names) sort of remapped or something so it looks less like a set.
__________________
"Here you are in the club with your bottle full of Bud, you got grillz you got bling, but playa you don't know a thing..." Alice Cooper - Disco Bloodbath Boogie Fever
Nick Ryder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 14 2010, 06:43 AM   #29
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: The Problems of Remastering TNG, DS9 & VOY

Truth_Seeker wrote: View Post
I recall that the later seasons of Voyager aired in 720p
You recall incorrectly. VOY has never aired in HD. (And by that I mean actually *in* HD, as opposed to upconverted SD.)

A show that was never made in HD can't air in that format.
__________________
In labor news: Longshoremen walked off the piers today. Rescue operations are continuing.
Mr. Laser Beam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 14 2010, 12:11 PM   #30
Truth_Seeker
Lieutenant Commander
 
Truth_Seeker's Avatar
 
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
Re: The Problems of Remastering TNG, DS9 & VOY

Nick Ryder wrote: View Post

"Old trick" wow... its already become an OLD TRICK? LOL

But yea that makes sense, providing someone has a computer hooked up to their TV.
Actually all you need is a DVD-ROM/Recorder device and preferably a larger monitor (20''-22'').

P.S. I almost forgot abou the software. You need to install the program Power DVD and K-Lite Codec Pack to watch them!
__________________
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."
"V For Vendetta"

Last edited by Truth_Seeker; January 14 2010 at 12:38 PM.
Truth_Seeker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
remastered

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:59 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.