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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old January 8 2010, 12:48 AM   #31
Dark Gilligan
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Re: Summer 2010 catalogue details

snakespeare wrote: View Post
Because there is no such thing as time.
?!?!?! Words escape me.
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Old January 8 2010, 12:56 AM   #32
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Re: Summer 2010 catalogue details

Dark Gilligan wrote: View Post
snakespeare wrote: View Post
Because there is no such thing as time.
?!?!?! Words escape me.
I think that we can all learn how to best approach this topic from the Doctor:

"People think that time is a strict progression from cause to effect, but in reality, from a non-subjective, non-linear standpoint, it's more like a big ball of... wibbly-wobbley, timey-wimey... stuff. That sentence got away from me."

Works for me!
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Old January 8 2010, 01:00 AM   #33
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Re: Summer 2010 catalogue details

Yes. And there's no such thing as gravity either. Someone just made it up to explain why things fall down.
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Old January 8 2010, 01:29 AM   #34
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Re: Summer 2010 catalogue details

snakespeare wrote: View Post
Time travel is a science fiction writer's conceit. It exists for one purpose, to create a problem, and the problem, in fiction, is the impetus of the work. In time travel fiction, the goal is almost always to correct things that went wrong. One wrong-headed person, for good or ill, uses time travel to change the past or learn the future, and things go wrong. Then the hero(es) have a long or short adventure that eventually results in some sort of acceptable outcome.
But parallel timelines are a real prediction of the Everett-Wheeler interpretation of quantum physics, whereas both classical and quantum theoretical approaches to the physics of time travel conclusively rule out the possibility of any event being "erased" by time travel. And the producers of the new film series have chosen to take a more scientifically accurate approach to the subject than they have in the past, which is in keeping with the spirit of Gene Roddenberry, who always strove to ground ST in credible science (though admittedly with mixed results). As long as they're in charge, it's their prerogative to do so. Particularly since it serves their creative interests to do so, allowing them to make a fresh start while still preserving what came before, as well as providing a story reason why Spock Prime did not and could not attempt to undo the existence of this new timeline.


But this is all, as Christopher was so quick to tell me, fake. There really aren't time machines. And you know what, there can never be time machines.
Maybe not, but that doesn't preclude us from being able to use our knowledge of physics to calculate what would happen if there were time machines. The universe follows consistent laws, and understanding those laws allows us to make predictions about what would happen in any situation. And SF storytellers can base their fiction on real physical theory just as much as the author of a detective story set in Chicago can base it on the real geography, culture, and history of Chicago. Just because something's fake doesn't mean it can't be convincing.


By the way, Christopher, nice straw man there. Nobody here advocated going back to the old cast, or any such thing. Straw man, all the way. What would be the point? Why, to tell a story, of course.
But what does that mean in practical terms? When you talk about going back to the original timeline, what are you proposing? That they tell original-timeline stories with Pine, Quinto, Urban, and the movie cast in faithful recreations of the original sets and costumes? Why would they do that? Why would the general public want to see it? I'm not using straw men, I'm asking you what it is you actually mean when you make these vague statements about what you want to see. When you say you want to go back, the question is, how do you propose that could be done?

If all you want is to tell stories set in the original history, well, we have the books for that. There's no limit to the stories we can tell, and Pocket will continue to publish Primeverse stories alongside Abramsverse stories for as long as there's a market for both. But you seem to be talking about what you want to see onscreen, and when it comes to making movies or television shows, there are a lot of practical factors you have to consider beyond pure storytelling. So what is it, specifically, that you're proposing? How would you make your suggestion work in a way that's practical, feasible, and marketable?
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Old January 8 2010, 01:39 AM   #35
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Re: Summer 2010 catalogue details

Dark Gilligan wrote: View Post
Yes. And there's no such thing as gravity either. Someone just made it up to explain why things fall down.
It is easier to believe in your senses. I understand. But in fact, to interrogate the universe, sometimes you have to get beyond them. Perhaps if you question the ideas of Sir Isaac Newton, you'll discover quantum physics.

But if you don't want to, it's OK.
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Old January 8 2010, 01:42 AM   #36
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Re: Summer 2010 catalogue details

Christopher, your explanation is great. I always enjoy reading your posts, and your books. Lots to think about. I won't undervalue those ideas by a quick reply, except to say, good stuff, there. I'll think about it.
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Old January 8 2010, 01:56 AM   #37
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Re: Summer 2010 catalogue details

snakespeare wrote: View Post
It is easier to believe in your senses. I understand. But in fact, to interrogate the universe, sometimes you have to get beyond them. Perhaps if you question the ideas of Sir Isaac Newton, you'll discover quantum physics.
Our senses perceive only a fraction of reality's sum. I honestly can't tell if you're trying to be sarcastic or helpful. The former I can understand. The latter escapes me, since it comes from a man who doesn't believe in time.
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Old January 8 2010, 02:07 AM   #38
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Re: Summer 2010 catalogue details

Time is an illusion. Teatime doubly so.
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Old January 8 2010, 02:31 AM   #39
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Re: Summer 2010 catalogue details

Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
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Old January 8 2010, 02:51 AM   #40
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Re: Summer 2010 catalogue details

Christopher wrote: View Post
I suspect the use of "Hazards" is a typo in the catalog and tentative cover. The actual Robert Burns line (from "Epistle to a Young Friend") is "The hazard of concealing."

Good catch! I'll have to point that out to Pocket.
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Old January 8 2010, 02:57 AM   #41
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Re: Summer 2010 catalogue details

Dennis wrote: View Post
snakespeare wrote: View Post
It just takes older people longer to adjust to change.
Don't over-generalize.

Hey, I'm getting weekly solicitations for AARP these days . . .
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Old January 8 2010, 03:00 AM   #42
Dark Gilligan
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Re: Summer 2010 catalogue details

You and me both.
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Old January 8 2010, 03:05 AM   #43
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Re: Summer 2010 catalogue details

The typo in the title aside, I'm quite pleased with the cover. Looks very snazzy!

And there's plenty of time to fix the cover type . . . .
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Old January 8 2010, 05:33 AM   #44
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Re: Summer 2010 catalogue details

William Leisner wrote: View Post
Time is an illusion. Teatime doubly so.
Damn! Beat me to it.
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Old January 8 2010, 11:01 AM   #45
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Re: Summer 2010 catalogue details

snakespeare wrote: View Post
ALL older people have a special excuse we are permitted to use when we don't like something.
At age 51 I say balderdash to that, and will hopefully always feel that way.
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