RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 135,887
Posts: 5,222,564
Members: 24,232
Currently online: 515
Newest member: shadow55

TrekToday headlines

De Lancie Joins Mind Puppets
By: T'Bonz on Apr 24

Cumberbatch One Of Time Magazine’s Most Influential
By: T'Bonz on Apr 24

Trek Actor Smithsonian Magazine Cover First
By: T'Bonz on Apr 24

Takei To Receive Award
By: T'Bonz on Apr 23

Yelchin In New Comedy
By: T'Bonz on Apr 23

U.S. Rights For Pegg Comedy Secured
By: T'Bonz on Apr 23

Shatner: Aging and Work
By: T'Bonz on Apr 23

Kurtzman And Orci Go Solo
By: T'Bonz on Apr 22

Star Trek #32 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Apr 22

Voyager Bridge Via The Oculus Rift
By: T'Bonz on Apr 21


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 18 2009, 04:58 AM   #121
Admiral Buzzkill
The Legend
 
Re: UFP Anthem

Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
If you really think that all pride automatically becomes chauvinism/Nazism...
Godwin'd!
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18 2009, 12:13 PM   #122
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: State of Maryland/District of Columbia
Re: UFP Anthem

Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
^My $0.02:

I think Sisko explained this issue pretty well in "The Maquis, Part I", with his "Saint in Paradise" speach....

The "Washington Elitists" (or, as I'm sure they'd say in the future, the Frisco Elitists)
The Federation capital city is Paris, not San Francisco. As Arlington, Virginia, houses the Pentagon a relatively small distance away from Washington, D.C., so does San Francisco house Starfleet Headquarters a relatively small distance away from Paris.

have never tasted the hard life. They're so used to Earth being a paradise, that they basically have an overdeveloped sense of tranquility. It's disgusting.

It's made'm naive...and sloppy!
Unlikely. Most of the senior defense advisors to the Federation President would have been Starfleet admirals who worked in the field and knew what the real galaxy was like.

The Federation simply has a more pacifistic value system than yours, even given bitter experience. Probably because the UFP is made up of cultures that have experienced war at its worst and know that almost anything else is preferable.
__________________
This dream must end, this world must know:
We all depend on the beast below.
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18 2009, 06:12 PM   #123
Rush Limborg
Vice Admiral
 
Rush Limborg's Avatar
 
Location: The EIB Network
Re: UFP Anthem

The Federation capital city is Paris, not San Francisco. As Arlington, Virginia, houses the Pentagon a relatively small distance away from Washington, D.C., so does San Francisco house Starfleet Headquarters a relatively small distance away from Paris.
I was referring to the Federation Council Building, as per Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home.

Unlikely. Most of the senior defense advisors to the Federation President would have been Starfleet admirals who worked in the field and knew what the real galaxy was like.
Well, I suppose it depends on the president...doesn't it?

Wow. That you actually took it seriously, the idea I suggested in jest that patriotism--that is, pride in your country--is automatically dangerous...it would be hilarious if it weren't so sad. If you really think that all pride automatically becomes chauvinism/Nazism...all I can say is...wow. That really is unfortunate if you yourself are so incapable of drawing the line that you don't believe anyone else can.
Sadly, Nerys, that mindset is all too common....

Strictly speaking, patriotism is "love and devotion to one's country". Jingoism, the belief in "my country, right or wrong", is simply a corruption of the noble idea of patriotism.

Natima Lang, for example, is a true patriot. Her love and devotion to Cardassia is what fills her with a desire to change it for the better, because she knows that the millitaristic path her world has taken will in the end only lead to destruction. (For these reasons, Legate Ghemor--and eventually, Legate Damar--are also true patriots.)

Gul Dukat, however, is a jingoist. He used his "love" for his homeland to justify sanctioning of atrocities and promotion of tyranny in the name of Cardassia.
__________________
"I have been wounded but not yet slain. I shall lie here and bleed awhile. Then I shall rise and fight again."

"Forget it, Jake...it's Chinatown."
Rush Limborg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18 2009, 06:24 PM   #124
Deranged Nasat
Vice Admiral
 
Deranged Nasat's Avatar
 
Location: Grudgingly agreeing not to eat my friends.
Re: UFP Anthem

Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
Natima Lang, for example, is a true patriot. Her love and devotion to Cardassia is what fills her with a desire to change it for the better, because she knows that the millitaristic path her world has taken will in the end only lead to destruction. (For these reasons, Legate Ghemor--and eventually, Legate Damar--are also true patriots.)

Gul Dukat, however, is a jingoist. He used his "love" for his homeland to justify sanctioning of atrocities and promotion of tyranny in the name of Cardassia.
True, and I agree with all your points save one (and it's minor). I would argue that Dukat was not even a jingoist. He was a Dukat-ist. He always put Dukat before Cardassia. He was, ultimately, selfish, which is as far from the Cardassian ethic as you can get. I would argue he didn't even truly care about Cardassia at all- the "good" of Cardassia was just the excuse (the first person to believe Dukat's lies was always Dukat himself). In "What You Leave Behind", Winn speaks of "the invasion of Cardassia" and Dukat doesn't even blink. Okay, he had fully descended into madness by then, but even prior to this, his own desires always came first. Terok Nor was his private castle in the sky where he could essentially rape the Bajoran women he found attractive and have his ego stroked. It was not the prosperity of Cardassia he was concerned with. During the Dominion War, his comments to Weyoun show that it is reclaiming HIS position that motivates him, again, not the good of Cardassia. Maybe during season four, with the Klingon invasion, he had the opportunity to grow and change and actually put Cardassia first- but he threw it away by selling his nation out to the Dominion.
__________________
We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there; too much, the best of us is washed away.
Deranged Nasat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 19 2009, 11:12 PM   #125
Rush Limborg
Vice Admiral
 
Rush Limborg's Avatar
 
Location: The EIB Network
Re: UFP Anthem

^As ye say, lad.
__________________
"I have been wounded but not yet slain. I shall lie here and bleed awhile. Then I shall rise and fight again."

"Forget it, Jake...it's Chinatown."
Rush Limborg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 19 2009, 11:45 PM   #126
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: State of Maryland/District of Columbia
Re: UFP Anthem

Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
The Federation capital city is Paris, not San Francisco. As Arlington, Virginia, houses the Pentagon a relatively small distance away from Washington, D.C., so does San Francisco house Starfleet Headquarters a relatively small distance away from Paris.
I was referring to the Federation Council Building, as per Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home.
Pardon me -- I forgot that not everyone reads the novels. Yeah, the Federation Council building seemed to be established as being in San Fran in ST4. But, really, that was such a lame-ass building that I tend to whole-heartedly embrace the retcon made in the novel Articles of the Federation, where the Federation Council is established to normally meet on the first floor of the Palais de la Concorde in Paris, with the President's office being on the top floor. (We can assume that the Federation Council building in San Fran is a regular alternate meeting site -- maybe the Palais was undergoing renovation!)
__________________
This dream must end, this world must know:
We all depend on the beast below.
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 20 2009, 12:55 AM   #127
Rush Limborg
Vice Admiral
 
Rush Limborg's Avatar
 
Location: The EIB Network
Re: UFP Anthem

Or...maybe the 'Frisco building was the old, TOS-era HQ for the Council, but someone afterwords thought it would be better just to (as you've said) rennovate the Palais ground floor--make it bigger--and hold the Council there....
__________________
"I have been wounded but not yet slain. I shall lie here and bleed awhile. Then I shall rise and fight again."

"Forget it, Jake...it's Chinatown."
Rush Limborg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 20 2009, 01:24 AM   #128
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: State of Maryland/District of Columbia
Re: UFP Anthem

Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
Or...maybe the 'Frisco building was the old, TOS-era HQ for the Council, but someone afterwords thought it would be better just to (as you've said) rennovate the Palais ground floor--make it bigger--and hold the Council there....
Articles of the Federation referred to the Federation Council Chamber in the Palais as having been used by the Council as early as the 22nd Century, so I always presumed the 'Frisco building was the one they used before the Palais finished construction and that they used afterwards as an alternate meeting site.
__________________
This dream must end, this world must know:
We all depend on the beast below.
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 20 2009, 11:51 PM   #129
Rush Limborg
Vice Admiral
 
Rush Limborg's Avatar
 
Location: The EIB Network
Re: UFP Anthem

^Hmm....

Fascinating....
__________________
"I have been wounded but not yet slain. I shall lie here and bleed awhile. Then I shall rise and fight again."

"Forget it, Jake...it's Chinatown."
Rush Limborg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2009, 07:13 PM   #130
bones451
Cadet
 
Location: Indanapolis
Re: UFP Anthem

Hi evry body you know it actually gos like this.-

"Among the stars
We all join hands
Brothers in harmony
We take a stand
Different worlds diverse tons
We join in one song
Peace bolstered by u___nity
We shall be strong
Space faring se___ntients we lend aid
To all who urn for peace were air they may
Diplomacy is our creed our course is set
United Federation of planets!"

Last edited by bones451; December 12 2009 at 10:47 PM.
bones451 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2009, 10:45 PM   #131
bones451
Cadet
 
Location: Indanapolis
Re: UFP Anthem

Hi evry body you know it actually gos like this.-

"Among the stars
We all join hands
Brothers in harmony
We take a stand
Different worlds diverse tons
We join in one song
Peace bolstered by u___nity
We shall be strong
Space faring se___ntients we lend aid
To all who urn for peace were air they may
Diplomacy is our creed our course is set
United Federation of planets!"
__________________
bones451 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13 2009, 03:29 AM   #132
Count Zero
Guess who's back
 
Count Zero's Avatar
 
Location: Land of Awesome
Re: UFP Anthem

I'm pretty sure the anthem has words. I know there are anthems without them but I think the Federation which is founded on certain principles would want to incorporate them in the anthem for everyone to identify with.
I wouldn't worry so much about translation, after all, the International exists in a lot of different languages, so it shouldn't be that much of a problem.

I've also written words for the first verse, which proved a bit more difficult than anticipated. Granted, it's not very easy to sing but I tested it, and it's possible. I have ideas about a second and third verse, too. But anyway, here's the first:

Come, gentlebeings, galaxywide,
from our dark and troubled past emerge to the light,
make a dream of old become reality,
friend and old foe in
a federation of the free.

Citizens of the universe we are,
bound to each other all through the stars.
Our nations might be as different as night and day.
Diversity is our friend
but united we stand.
Count Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14 2009, 08:49 AM   #133
Gaith
Rear Admiral
 
Gaith's Avatar
 
Location: Washington, DC
Re: UFP Anthem

One vote here for making The Internationale the Federation anthem, with appropriately intergalactic lyrics.
Gaith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14 2009, 09:43 AM   #134
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: State of Maryland/District of Columbia
Re: UFP Anthem

Gaith wrote: View Post
One vote here for making The Internationale the Federation anthem, with appropriately intergalactic lyrics.
A song glorifying a violent rebellion against liberal democracy in favor of an ill-defined political movement that has inevitably led to a small elite monopolizing resources and oppressing the masses is hardly the sort of thing the Federation would use to represent itself.

Besides, we've already heard the Federation Anthem. It sounds nothing like "The Internationale."
__________________
This dream must end, this world must know:
We all depend on the beast below.
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 26 2009, 05:48 PM   #135
Rush Limborg
Vice Admiral
 
Rush Limborg's Avatar
 
Location: The EIB Network
Re: UFP Anthem

Hey, folks, FWIW, I've finally taken the liberty of writing some lyrics myself, for the first verse. I tried to emphasize pacing as well as meter. And of course, the intent is to stir patriotism within the hearts of the citizens of the nation, as any anthem should:

Hear, all ye peoples, far and wide,
Rise with integrity, honor, and pride,
Stand for this Empire of Liberty,
This One and United Federation!

BTW, here's a YouTube of the full anthem with the annoying applause edited out....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QpFTmdK7nQ
__________________
"I have been wounded but not yet slain. I shall lie here and bleed awhile. Then I shall rise and fight again."

"Forget it, Jake...it's Chinatown."
Rush Limborg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
cardassian, end program, federation

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:18 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.