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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old December 23 2009, 04:34 AM   #31
The Wormhole
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Re: Rumor that will cause me not to see the sequel!

Here's my problem if they do indeed do a Khan movie.

Aren't they trying to "reintroduce the basic essentials of Trek" or some such? Khan is not a basic essential of Trek. He was in one episode and one movie. A very popular episode and the fan favourite movie, but that's still only two appearances.

So if they really want to bring the basic essentials in for the new audience, Klingons would the logical choice as Trek XII's villains. After all, what could be more bascially essential to Trek then Klingons? And thanks to the deleted scene, Abrams and cohorts already have a head start with them.

"Oh but I'm tired of Klingons. We've seen them too many times."
Klingons of TOS were very different from Klingons of modern day Trek. I got the impression from the deleted scene that theses Klingons were more in the TOS mold. The guy interrogating Nero seemed more sophisticated and cerebral, much like Kor or Kang as opposed to 24th century Klingons or 22nd century for that matter.
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Last edited by The Wormhole; December 23 2009 at 05:09 AM.
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Old December 23 2009, 04:59 AM   #32
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Rumor that will cause me not to see the sequel!

Khan could work. I nominate Naveen Andrews for the role. But thinking about it, I've realized there's something wrong with Andrews and it's that he's not conventionally good looking enough. The creepy aspect of Montelban was how good looking he was - all his "Augments" were - and it was a reminder that these people are unnatural.

What they really need is for Sendhil Ramamurthy to suddenly learn how to act worth a damn, because that guy's looks are just about perfect for the role - too beautiful to be the product of nature.
A bit early for boycotts, isn't it?
Are you kidding, I'm skipping right over Movie #2 and organizing a boycott of the third movie. So there.
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Old December 23 2009, 04:59 AM   #33
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Re: Rumor that will cause me not to see the sequel!

"Basic essentials" is not the same as "most often-repeated elements."

The movie version of Khan, more than the original and somewhat more subtle version seen in "Space Seed," has been one of the most strongly embedded elements of Trek in pop culture since the mid-1980s. In marketing terms, the logic of using him in the second Trek movie is not unlike the logic of using the Joker in "The Dark Knight."
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Old December 23 2009, 05:10 AM   #34
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Re: Rumor that will cause me not to see the sequel!

Silver TriBells wrote: View Post
How about a sequel based on Way to Eden? Then the soundtrack can have the jams they use in the movie. It's win all around.
Actually, I've often thought that if they wanted to remake an episode, why remake a classic when you can remake a shitty one? I think it could actually work if you tweak the story. Say, make them less space hippies, more crazed and creepy cult. Possibly as parallel to Scientology or those suicide cults if they want to keep it relevant.
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Old December 23 2009, 05:13 AM   #35
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Re: Rumor that will cause me not to see the sequel!

Dennis wrote: View Post
In marketing terms, the logic of using him in the second Trek movie is not unlike the logic of using the Joker in "The Dark Knight."
Sorry, I just don't view Khan as being the forefront villain of Star Trek the way that the Joker is for Batman. Ask John Everyman or Average Joe who the villains of Star Trek are, and they're more likely to say Klingons, or possibly Romulans as opposed to Khan. And since Romulans have already been used in XI, Klingons are the more logical choice for XII.
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Old December 23 2009, 05:16 AM   #36
Char Aznable
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Re: Rumor that will cause me not to see the sequel!

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Dennis wrote: View Post
In marketing terms, the logic of using him in the second Trek movie is not unlike the logic of using the Joker in "The Dark Knight."
Sorry, I just don't view Khan as being the forefront villain of Star Trek the way that the Joker is for Batman. Ask John Everyman or Average Joe who the villains of Star Trek are, and they're more likely to say Klingons, or possibly Romulans as opposed to Khan. And since Romulans have already been used in XI, Klingons are the more logical choice for XII.
Agreed. In fact, what I really don't want to see is them trying to capitalize on Dark Knight by throwing in Khan as Kirk's arch nemesis as it would be so obvious and see through that I'd be quite annoyed. I am intrigued by what they have been mentioning about space itself being the enemy or something similar.
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Old December 23 2009, 12:12 PM   #37
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Re: Rumor that will cause me not to see the sequel!

If Janice Rand isn't in the sequel then I will boycott. I want to look at her legs dammit!
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Old December 23 2009, 12:28 PM   #38
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Re: Rumor that will cause me not to see the sequel!

^ Agreed. While I do not want to see a Khan movie, I do want to see Yeoman Janice Rand brought in. If it does happen to be a Khan movie, though, I won't boycott it.
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Old December 23 2009, 04:00 PM   #39
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Re: Rumor that will cause me not to see the sequel!

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Sorry, I just don't view Khan as being the forefront villain of Star Trek the way that the Joker is for Batman.
Well, he is.

"The Klingons" aren't a villain. They're just a bunch of stock bad guys who folks are confused about because of TNG (in fact, one of the writers of ST '09 gave the "reformation" of the Klingons as a reason for not using them in this one. That works). Khan translates into a very specific image for mainstream folks who are aware of Trek at all, and that's Ricardo Montalban facing off with William Shatner in that Trek movie with Kirstie Alley.

"Kha-a-a-a-an!"

There is no Klingon character in the history of Trek that approaches this level of recognition, and announcing that in the next movie Kirk will fight Klingons buys the studio nothing in terms of cutting through media noise. It's like saying that next time out Batman will fight some bank robbers hiding out in an abandoned warehouse.

Last edited by Admiral Buzzkill; December 23 2009 at 04:38 PM.
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Old December 23 2009, 04:43 PM   #40
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Re: Rumor that will cause me not to see the sequel!

I've never met anyone who considered Khan to be Kirk's nemesis as such... he's always instantly associated with number 2, 'cus he was in it, but original Star Trek in general? I disagree with that. I don't think Kirk has an individual nemesis in that fashion as Batman does.

Perhaps I'm hanging out with the wrong people.
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Old December 23 2009, 04:55 PM   #41
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Re: Rumor that will cause me not to see the sequel!

Dennis wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Sorry, I just don't view Khan as being the forefront villain of Star Trek the way that the Joker is for Batman.
Well, he is.

"The Klingons" aren't a villain. They're just a bunch of stock bad guys who folks are confused about because of TNG. Khan translates into a very specific image for mainstream folks who are aware of Trek at all, and that's Ricardo Montalban facing off with William Shatner in that Trek movie with Kirstie Alley.

"Kha-a-a-a-an!"

There is no Klingon character in the history of Trek that approaches this level of recognition, and announcing that in the next movie Kirk will fight Klingons buys the studio nothing in terms of cutting through media noise. It's like saying that next time out Batman will fight some bank robbers hiding out in an abandoned warehouse.
But as I said in a post above, the elements that made Khan KHAAAAAAN in TWOK don't exist in this new timeline/universe.
In Space Seed, Khan is obviously a brilliant and dangerous man, but beyond that, not all that outstanding or memorable (SS is a solid episode, but it's not like it's in every fan's top five list of most memorable stories).

When they first meet, Khan had nothing personal against Kirk. But his personal vendetta against Kirk is what drove TWOK and made him so wonderfully twistedly villainous.
In other words, is it really worthwhile to long for the Khan of Space Seed?
Will something put him over the edge in this universe? Will something make him go after Kirk to the point of becoming irrational about it? How will it ever be more poignant than what drove him in TWOK? And, how could it done in a way that keeps it from being derivative of Nero, who (in the first place) was essentially a blue collar version of Khan focused on Spock instead of Kirk?

I tend to agree with Wormhole, here. I'd say if they want to go in the super-villain direction, let's see them create a character (Klingon would be fine) for the next movie who will be remembered and shelved on the same level as TWOK Khan.
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Old December 23 2009, 04:59 PM   #42
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Rumor that will cause me not to see the sequel!

elton wrote: View Post
I've never met anyone who considered Khan to be Kirk's nemesis as such... he's always instantly associated with number 2, 'cus he was in it, but original Star Trek in general? I disagree with that. I don't think Kirk has an individual nemesis in that fashion as Batman does.

Perhaps I'm hanging out with the wrong people.
Well he almost had one in Kor from what I hear had they been able to use him more then once like they planned.
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Old December 23 2009, 05:02 PM   #43
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Re: Rumor that will cause me not to see the sequel!

Borgminister wrote: View Post
I'd like to think they can come up with an original idea of their own...
This would be nice but all HW is now is remakes! As much as I liked the new film I would have preferred a Titan film or something totally new.

Penhall99 wrote: View Post
GalaxyClass1701 wrote: View Post
I have read more than one interview where Abrhams has stated that he really would like to use the Khan story!

If he messes with Khan I will not see it!
Do you really not trust the team behind Trek now to give us a great movie? Haven't they earned our trust?

They've earned mine. No matter what they do, I'm confident it will be good.
There are certain aspects of Trek that should just be left alone.
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Old December 23 2009, 05:14 PM   #44
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Re: Rumor that will cause me not to see the sequel!

GalaxyClass1701 wrote: View Post
I have read more than one interview where Abrhams has stated that he really would like to use the Khan story!
Which one?
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Old December 23 2009, 05:33 PM   #45
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Re: Rumor that will cause me not to see the sequel!

Devon wrote: View Post
GalaxyClass1701 wrote: View Post
I have read more than one interview where Abrhams has stated that he really would like to use the Khan story!
Which one?
He didn't state which story just that he would like to use Khan.
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