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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old December 9 2009, 07:44 PM   #481
JJohnson
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Location: Jacksonville, FL
Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

If a TNG-R were done like the TOS-R Blu-Ray, it would just need to have the seamless branching so you can choose to have either the original upconverted, or the new FX. That way, both people are happy, and you choose your version, but either way, it's still in HD. No need to argue that point.
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Old December 9 2009, 08:11 PM   #482
CoveTom
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

^ See, now there's a very reasonable solution that keeps everyone happy and makes the release appeal to a wider market.
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Old December 10 2009, 01:09 AM   #483
Prologic9
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

MvRojo wrote: View Post
They already put standard-definition materials on their BD releases. All the previous special features from the DVDs are on the Trek BD releases, and they're still in standard def, which according to you, shouldn't have happened since "they'd be duplicating content currently available that they're already trying to sell you". Most studios are doing the same thing.

Hell, even the Ultimate Edition Harry Potter films on BD include a plain old DVD of special features since they just ported pretty much the same disc over from the previous release. And Disney BDs include a full DVD of the film on top of the BD and digital copies.

Don't act like you're an expert on the home video market or BDs when you make obviously incorrect statements.
Yes, blurays often include bonus features in SD, almost always re-purposed from earlier DVD releases. We're talking about including a second copy of the entire show, over 22 extra hours of material. I'm sorry if you can't see the difference.

JJohnson wrote: View Post
If a TNG-R were done like the TOS-R Blu-Ray, it would just need to have the seamless branching so you can choose to have either the original upconverted, or the new FX. That way, both people are happy, and you choose your version, but either way, it's still in HD. No need to argue that point.
Not possible. The original version of the show will never exist in HD. If they could just branch between the two it wouldn't be much more of an issue than TOS sets, but switching between newly restored film elements in HD and the low resolution analogue masters of the existing show would not be "preserving the originals."
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Old December 10 2009, 01:39 AM   #484
Hober Mallow
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

Believe me, I'm one of the biggest film purists there is, but since TNG SD is already available on DVD, what would be the point of including them on a future remastered BD release? I wouldn't mind having it all in one convenient package, but it hardly seems essential.
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Old December 10 2009, 02:16 AM   #485
bullethead
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Believe me, I'm one of the biggest film purists there is, but since TNG SD is already available on DVD, what would be the point of including them on a future remastered BD release? I wouldn't mind having it all in one convenient package, but it hardly seems essential.
Apparently it's to ensure that something like the whole debacle with George Lucas replacing all the effects in the original Star Wars movies and refusing to release copies with the original effects never happens. Although in that case, I'm pretty sure they might have done some other things that pissed off people, mostly adding in things to tie the movies closer to the prequels.
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Old December 10 2009, 02:42 AM   #486
3D Master
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

Prologic9 wrote: View Post
MvRojo wrote: View Post
They already put standard-definition materials on their BD releases. All the previous special features from the DVDs are on the Trek BD releases, and they're still in standard def, which according to you, shouldn't have happened since "they'd be duplicating content currently available that they're already trying to sell you". Most studios are doing the same thing.

Hell, even the Ultimate Edition Harry Potter films on BD include a plain old DVD of special features since they just ported pretty much the same disc over from the previous release. And Disney BDs include a full DVD of the film on top of the BD and digital copies.

Don't act like you're an expert on the home video market or BDs when you make obviously incorrect statements.
Yes, blurays often include bonus features in SD, almost always re-purposed from earlier DVD releases. We're talking about including a second copy of the entire show, over 22 extra hours of material. I'm sorry if you can't see the difference.
Which doesn't cost them a damn thing. The SD episodes already exist. It only costs them a tiny little extra effort in the menus to add an option "Play original SD episode". Which in comparison to the actual remastering and recreating of effects is a cost that is essentially non-existent.

JJohnson wrote: View Post
If a TNG-R were done like the TOS-R Blu-Ray, it would just need to have the seamless branching so you can choose to have either the original upconverted, or the new FX. That way, both people are happy, and you choose your version, but either way, it's still in HD. No need to argue that point.
Not possible. The original version of the show will never exist in HD. If they could just branch between the two it wouldn't be much more of an issue than TOS sets, but switching between newly restored film elements in HD and the low resolution analogue masters of the existing show would not be "preserving the originals."
If nothing is changed in the HD film elements, then it DOES preserve the originals. Of course, this can't be done, which necessitates the addition of the SD episode.

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Believe me, I'm one of the biggest film purists there is, but since TNG SD is already available on DVD, what would be the point of including them on a future remastered BD release? I wouldn't mind having it all in one convenient package, but it hardly seems essential.
:sighs: AGAIN, it's not about whether they are available NOW, it's about whether they CONTINUE to be available in the decades to come.
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Old December 10 2009, 03:10 AM   #487
Harvey
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

If you're talking seamless branching between the new and old visual effects (as is done on the TOS DVDs) then the cost would be minimal. But if you're talking about including the episodes in their entirety in both SD and HD, that's going to use up much more disc space, and result in more discs per set. And that's going to substantially increase the cost.
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Old December 10 2009, 03:47 AM   #488
JJohnson
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

Harvey wrote: View Post
If you're talking seamless branching between the new and old visual effects (as is done on the TOS DVDs) then the cost would be minimal. But if you're talking about including the episodes in their entirety in both SD and HD, that's going to use up much more disc space, and result in more discs per set. And that's going to substantially increase the cost.
I meant seamless branching, just like TOS-R on Blu-ray. Minimal disc space, and keeps the old school happy, and those wanting upgraded FX happy.

JJohnson wrote: View Post
If a TNG-R were done like the TOS-R Blu-Ray, it would just need to have the seamless branching so you can choose to have either the original upconverted, or the new FX. That way, both people are happy, and you choose your version, but either way, it's still in HD. No need to argue that point.
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Old December 10 2009, 05:12 AM   #489
MvRojo
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

bullethead wrote: View Post
Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Believe me, I'm one of the biggest film purists there is, but since TNG SD is already available on DVD, what would be the point of including them on a future remastered BD release? I wouldn't mind having it all in one convenient package, but it hardly seems essential.
Apparently it's to ensure that something like the whole debacle with George Lucas replacing all the effects in the original Star Wars movies and refusing to release copies with the original effects never happens. Although in that case, I'm pretty sure they might have done some other things that pissed off people, mostly adding in things to tie the movies closer to the prequels.
Yeah, GL is an ass. They eventually released the original, unaltered original trilogy, but used a really, really poor master and didn't bother cleaning it up the print.
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Old December 10 2009, 12:33 PM   #490
3D Master
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

Harvey wrote: View Post
If you're talking seamless branching between the new and old visual effects (as is done on the TOS DVDs) then the cost would be minimal. But if you're talking about including the episodes in their entirety in both SD and HD, that's going to use up much more disc space, and result in more discs per set. And that's going to substantially increase the cost.
Bullshit. Blu-ray discs have FAR more storage space than a DVD. You can easily add SD episodes on there alongside the HD ones without needing to add more discs.
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Old December 10 2009, 01:59 PM   #491
Tomalak
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

MvRojo wrote: View Post
Yeah, GL is an ass. They eventually released the original, unaltered original trilogy, but used a really, really poor master and didn't bother cleaning it up the print.
Didn't they claim it was because the original master no longer exists because it was physically chopped up for the 1997 remasters?
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Old December 10 2009, 02:43 PM   #492
trevanian
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

Tomalak wrote: View Post
MvRojo wrote: View Post
Yeah, GL is an ass. They eventually released the original, unaltered original trilogy, but used a really, really poor master and didn't bother cleaning it up the print.
Didn't they claim it was because the original master no longer exists because it was physically chopped up for the 1997 remasters?
I guess nobody can save GL from himself. SW was one of the films chosen for preservation by Library of Congress, wasn't it? And yet it wasn't preserved?

Add to that the huge cleanup effort in 97 (which cost as much as the whole first film itself) for rerelease, which was documented in American Cinematographer ... the film elements were re-comped, and the filmstock used for dissolves was for crap over time, but I don't see how the negatives would be compromised by any of this.
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Old December 10 2009, 06:35 PM   #493
MvRojo
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

Tomalak wrote: View Post
MvRojo wrote: View Post
Yeah, GL is an ass. They eventually released the original, unaltered original trilogy, but used a really, really poor master and didn't bother cleaning it up the print.
Didn't they claim it was because the original master no longer exists because it was physically chopped up for the 1997 remasters?
I think they did claim that, which I think would be a horrible thing for any filmmaker to do with his own originals.

Also, Star Wars: A New Hope was inducted into the National Film Registry in 1989, so the print they have should be an original (otherwise, it would defeat the purpose of their whole film preservation initiative ).
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Old December 10 2009, 07:38 PM   #494
Hober Mallow
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

JJohnson wrote: View Post
I meant seamless branching, just like TOS-R on Blu-ray. Minimal disc space, and keeps the old school happy, and those wanting upgraded FX happy.
JJohnson wrote: View Post
If a TNG-R were done like the TOS-R Blu-Ray, it would just need to have the seamless branching so you can choose to have either the original upconverted, or the new FX. That way, both people are happy, and you choose your version, but either way, it's still in HD. No need to argue that point.
You couldn't do that, though, and have it be the same show. They would have to include the SD episode in it's entirety. With TOS, the HD versions are the original versions, just with an HD transfer. With TNG, the remastered episodes would actually be completely different versions, not even really the same show. In other words, TOS remastered is just a new transfer of the original episode, whereas TNG remastered would be an entirely new edit made from the original film.
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Old December 10 2009, 07:44 PM   #495
MvRojo
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
JJohnson wrote: View Post
I meant seamless branching, just like TOS-R on Blu-ray. Minimal disc space, and keeps the old school happy, and those wanting upgraded FX happy.
JJohnson wrote: View Post
If a TNG-R were done like the TOS-R Blu-Ray, it would just need to have the seamless branching so you can choose to have either the original upconverted, or the new FX. That way, both people are happy, and you choose your version, but either way, it's still in HD. No need to argue that point.
You couldn't do that, though, and have it be the same show. They would have to include the SD episode in it's entirety. With TOS, the HD versions are the original versions, just with an HD transfer. With TNG, the remastered episodes would actually be completely different versions, not even really the same show. In other words, TOS remastered is just a new transfer of the original episode, whereas TNG remastered would be an entirely new edit made from the original film.
There's likely still enough space. BD discs hold 5 times the data as standard DVDs. So, four SD episodes of TNG would take up, at most, 20% of the disc, and likely not even that much since I doubt they come close to maxing out a DVDs capacity.

Even TOS in HD probably doesn't come close to taking up the entire 50+ GB of a BD disc since they only put up to 4 episodes on a disc, whereas other TV shows have put up to 6 episodes on BD
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