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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old December 8 2009, 08:23 PM   #61
paudemge
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Re: 47 Klingon Ships and Uhura--Nitpicking Time

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
One would think that a Cadet would inform their superior officer of such a discover particularly when a single Romulan vessel manages to destroy 47 Klingon ships. No wonder Narada was able to attack Vulcan so easily...no one was informed of it until it was too late.
To recap, it's a simple thing to read between the lines of the dialogue quoted above and to see that her superior officer was informed, after which Uhura was sent home for the remainder of her scheduled shift, and that there was nothing in the intercepted transmission which mentioned a Romulan vessel (or, apparently, any vessel at all besides those 47 Klingon craft which were destroyed.)
Didn't Pine ask her with a swollen tongue if the ship was Romulan, to which she replied 'Yes'? So she knew it was a Romulan ship.

To me it seemed like a lowly cadet picked up something and was filed away by her superiors to be looked into by more senior people when time permitted. Kirk trusted her and was able to use the information.
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Old December 8 2009, 08:51 PM   #62
Geoff Peterson
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Re: 47 Klingon Ships and Uhura

Jeri wrote: View Post
What?
Women in refrigerators. Its a comic book thing. Female characters have a strange habit of dying, getting depowered and crippled.

Jekyl has a real hate for Uhura in this movie for some reason. Pesonally I don't see it.

As for this topic, it sounds like the typical "I need to be spoon fed" every piece of information syndrome. Or as Shatmandu said. a lack of imagination.

Uhura leaving her post. Its a movie not a how to on military protocol. Dramatic moments trump "reality". Happens all the time in movies. I'll give it a pass on precedent.
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Old December 8 2009, 09:56 PM   #63
M'Sharak
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Re: 47 Klingon Ships and Uhura

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
One would think that a Cadet would inform their superior officer of such a discover particularly when a single Romulan vessel manages to destroy 47 Klingon ships. No wonder Narada was able to attack Vulcan so easily...no one was informed of it until it was too late.
To recap, it's a simple thing to read between the lines of the dialogue quoted above and to see that her superior officer was informed, after which Uhura was sent home for the remainder of her scheduled shift, and that there was nothing in the intercepted transmission which mentioned a Romulan vessel (or, apparently, any vessel at all besides those 47 Klingon craft which were destroyed.)
Didn't Pine ask her with a swollen tongue if the ship was Romulan, to which she replied 'Yes'? So she knew it was a Romulan ship.
Okay, you've got me there, but it's not established that she knew at the time of her entrance into the Kirk/Gaila/Uhura scene, freshly dismissed from her work shift -- there's no mention of it in that scene. Some time passed (Kobayashi Maru simulation, Academy review panel, mobilization of cadets, Kirk unconscious, etc.) before Kirk comes to confront Uhura with the question.

Is it possible that parts of the transmission were originally garbled and not rendered intelligible until hours later, when Uhura was not present? Could Uhura have been doing that clean-up task herself in the time since she boarded the Enterprise? Finally, even if it was known relatively early that a Romulan vessel was responsible, there was apparently no useful information about which vessel it was and it was still Kirk who put together that reported attack and the "lightning storm in space" detail to draw a parallel to the events in which the Kelvin was destroyed and his father killed. It's an intuitive leap, to be sure, and not a 100% accurate conclusion (the "lightning storm" in this case marked OldSpock's arrival, not that of Narada, though Narada was in fact already present and waiting near the wormhole exit's coordinates) but Pike's earlier speech in the bar scene touches upon the aptitude shown by Kirk's father in making such leaps, and upon Kirk's similar aptitude.

Could this have been written more neatly? Probably so, but I'm not seeing it as a glaring flaw, nor as evidence of a wilful act on Uhura's part to withhold crucial information from superiors, which was where the OP's post seemed to be coming from.

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Jeri wrote: View Post
What?
Women in refrigerators. Its a comic book thing. Female characters have a strange habit of dying, getting depowered and crippled.
Even though the idea has been around for a few years now, I seem to be hearing about it a lot more often just within the last year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Refrigerators
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Old December 9 2009, 12:14 AM   #64
Jeri
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Re: 47 Klingon Ships and Uhura

Nerys, thanks. Yeah...I just ask "what?" sometimes instead of making a point for a poster; I'd rather they make it themselves.
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Old December 9 2009, 12:22 AM   #65
Geoff Peterson
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Re: 47 Klingon Ships and Uhura

Jeri wrote: View Post
Nerys, thanks. Yeah...I just ask "what?" sometimes instead of making a point for a poster; I'd rather they make it themselves.
I dont think Amanda's death counts as "frigded". Parents getting killed is a standard trope dating back to the ancient myths. Heck in this movie George Kirk gets killed too.
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Old December 9 2009, 09:24 AM   #66
Vigilance
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Re: 47 Klingon Ships and Uhura

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Tom Servo wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post

And should get fired for that.
She should get fired for informing her superiors about a major space battle between two powers? (Edit: Ooooops.)

I mean, Galia assumed that Uhura was going to be in the sensor lab all night. Therefore, I assume that once she picked up the message, her superiors came in a took over the lab to analyze the situation, and had all the cadets leave.

Problem solved.
Apparently, neither the First Officer nor the Commanding Officer of the FLAGSHIP knew about an incident of 1 Romulan ship destroying 47 Klingon ships (that might have been worth an immediate briefing, not?). A cadet who wasn't even supposed to be there had to bring it up and connect the dots, and then Uhura said like "Oh yeah, right, there was this thing yesterday."

And nobody connected the dots between giant ship destroying 47 ships and Vulcan being mysteriously attacked. Today's world works like: "Oh, there has been an accident, it might be a terrorist attack until further evidence suggests otherwise." Future's world would connect a battle in the Neutral Zone to an attack on Vulcan fairly quickly.
Conveying the information the way they did was more dramatic.

I'm kind of glad the movie didn't inflict another scene of officers sitting around a table being briefed by command.

I could go my entire life without ever seeing another scene like that. The last cool one was Balance of Terror.
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Old December 9 2009, 09:37 AM   #67
Timo
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Re: 47 Klingon Ships and Uhura

A minor tidbit here that might or might not relate to the issue of Uhura deserting her chair:

Neither in TOS nor in this movie is it ever suggested that Uhura would have been the top-ranking communications chief of the vessel. In TOS, there were several Lieutenants holding that position, some played by actors older than Nichols. In the movie, Uhura wasn't even supposed to be aboard the ship in the first place - and the Enterprise would have been the one ship with the best odds of having some "real" crew around, as she was actually expected to set sail sooner or later.

Ensign Chekov certainly wasn't the Navigation Chief in TOS, and quite possibly Lieutenant Sulu wasn't a department head either (except of course in the pilot, where he appeared to be the Chief Science Officer). It's just that Starfleet seems to prefer to have its personnel working in teams, so that certain people are grouped with certain other people during certain watches. Presumably Starfleet wouldn't want to cluster all its department chiefs on the same watch. And presumably Starfleet trusts its junior personnel and doesn't expect the chiefs to rush in to relieve them whenever the red alert klaxon goes off.

However, STXI had exceptional circumstances regarding the bridge crew arrangements (thus maintaining a proud ST movie tradition). For all we know, Uhura was warming an assistant comms operator's seat there, and was not required to maintain vigilant watch or anything. Heck, that she was on the bridge was just a bit of favoritism from Spock to begin with; perhaps she had only make-work?

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Old December 9 2009, 09:55 AM   #68
David cgc
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Re: 47 Klingon Ships and Uhura

Actually, she was on the bridge because she could tell the difference between Vulcan and Romulan communications by ear, and the official communications officer couldn't. Pike put her in his place after that came to light after Kirk dragged her up to corroborate his wild-ass giant Romulan theory.
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Old December 9 2009, 10:07 AM   #69
Pauln6
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Re: 47 Klingon Ships and Uhura

David cgc wrote: View Post
Actually, she was on the bridge because she could tell the difference between Vulcan and Romulan communications by ear, and the official communications officer couldn't. Pike put her in his place after that came to light after Kirk dragged her up to corroborate his wild-ass giant Romulan theory.
Yes - until TMP, there was never any official acknowledgment that any of the secondary crew were department heads, or even that helm, navigation, or communications have department heads. The Enterprise in TNG didn't have a chief science officer either.

Blockbuster movies often avoid logic in favour of drama and I find it annoying most of the time. Like in 2012 where unqualified staff run all the way from the bridge to the bulkhead section to save main characters instead of just getting one of any number of qualified engineer who must have been closer to the location to do it and leading to the death of at least one person. In addition, characters wasted several minutes telling each other how much they loved each other, which also contributed to deaths. I don't really approve of stupid, selfish behaviour being rewarded when being more professional and thinking of others first would have saved more lives.

This contrivance in Trek was pretty daft though. If somebody was able to teach Uhura Romulan then the universal translator would be able to translate it. If the translator goes on the blink then maybe... but otherwise any officer could have done Uhura's job.
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Old December 9 2009, 12:53 PM   #70
Jeyl
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Re: 47 Klingon Ships and Uhura

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
This contrivance in Trek was pretty daft though. If somebody was able to teach Uhura Romulan then the universal translator would be able to translate it. If the translator goes on the blink then maybe... but otherwise any officer could have done Uhura's job.
Thank you for this. And how much different is Vulcan compared to Romulan anyways? Heck, I can tell Chinese and Japanese apart as well as Spanish to French. If he knows the Vulcan language but can't distinguish it from Romulan, he should still be able to understand what they are saying. It's like he knows what 1+1 is, but he doesn't know what 1+2 is. And if he doesn't understand the Vulcan language, than why the heck was he given that job in the first place?

Lesson to writers. If you're going set up a character's skills and traits as important elements to that character, give the characters a scene where they actually put them to good use. Having Uhura say she knows all three dialects of Romulan is one thing, but when you suddenly throw us Romulans who speak perfect english, what was the point? Using that to give her a spot on the bridge doesn't enhance her character, it just shows that you made her position completely pointless and unneeded.
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Old December 9 2009, 12:58 PM   #71
Timo
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Re: 47 Klingon Ships and Uhura

It's really difficult to push the "Uhura is a skilled linguist" angle when Star Trek has the Universal Translator, and when TOS never showed Uhura with a penchant for languages (or for anything much).

However, I could buy it that only certain skilled people would be able to pick up a scrambled voice transmission and identify which language it was scrambled from. And by scrambling I mean both natural degradation of signal, and deliberate efforts at ciphering. It's another question whether a starship communications officer would be expected to have such skills or not.

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Old December 9 2009, 01:54 PM   #72
Pauln6
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Re: 47 Klingon Ships and Uhura

Timo wrote: View Post
It's really difficult to push the "Uhura is a skilled linguist" angle when Star Trek has the Universal Translator, and when TOS never showed Uhura with a penchant for languages (or for anything much).

However, I could buy it that only certain skilled people would be able to pick up a scrambled voice transmission and identify which language it was scrambled from. And by scrambling I mean both natural degradation of signal, and deliberate efforts at ciphering. It's another question whether a starship communications officer would be expected to have such skills or not.

Timo Saloniemi
Tee hee - Uhura couldn't even speak basic Klingon in TUC! It was a joke scene and it was funny but it was as insulting to the character as the fact that Chekov, a former security chief in TMP, didn't know that weapons fire would set off the alarms.

This is also something I alluded to earlier about Spock doing linguistic translations and code cracking in TOS when Uhura should have been a front-runner.

I agree that a throwaway line about interference making the translator unreliable would have made Uhura's role worthwhile.
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Old December 9 2009, 02:02 PM   #73
Timo
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Re: 47 Klingon Ships and Uhura

...Chekov, a former security chief in TMP, didn't know that weapons fire would set off the alarms.
Might have been a new system, though. We never got alarms when phasers were fired in TOS ("Conscience of a King" or "The Changeling" for starters), and the movies didn't feature hand phaser fire in the corridors so we wouldn't know one way or another.

Perhaps the new alarm system is what allowed Starfleet to move the weapons from dedicated armory vaults to simple cabinets on the walls of communal spaces?

No excuse for Uhura not knowing Klingon, tho. And I'm not sure one would be needed. How many USN radists during the Cold War spoke Russian? How many spoke German or Japanese in WWII?

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Old December 9 2009, 03:12 PM   #74
Pauln6
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Re: 47 Klingon Ships and Uhura

Timo wrote: View Post
...Chekov, a former security chief in TMP, didn't know that weapons fire would set off the alarms.
Perhaps the new alarm system is what allowed Starfleet to move the weapons from dedicated armory vaults to simple cabinets on the walls of communal spaces?
Lol! You know I never noticed how stupid that was either...
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Old December 9 2009, 03:26 PM   #75
Jeyl
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Re: 47 Klingon Ships and Uhura

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
I agree that a throwaway line about interference making the translator unreliable would have made Uhura's role worthwhile.
Ya. The line "Captain, we're being hailed!" is light years ahead of anything the original Uhura ever did in the prime timeline. Heck, she even took command of the Enterprise and saved the day one time. Being confined to a station where she states the obvious that everyone else can do is... screw it.

I state it here right now that as long as Uhura's role is restricted to a comms officer, she will never be more than what she was. Being romantically involved with Spock does not add to her character. Take the Transporter room scene for instance.

"I'll be monitoring your frequencies."

Yes, the lady sees the men off so they can do their manly things while she stays behind and does NOTHING useful but run back into the Transporter room when Spock and crew beams back up.
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